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BIG Chargers delegation in Eugene to work out QB Mariotta

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Apr 14, 2015.

  1. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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  2. Fargo

    Fargo BoltTalker

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    Hmmm not sure what to think. really good for the future, but may hurt us in the beginning? Is he able to start right out of college in the NFL and produce? hmmmmm. I am also not sure our backups can step up and produce...hmmm
     
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  3. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Full story here.
    http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/apr/13/chargers-marcus-mariota-philip-rivers-draft/
    My dos centavos: There would have to be 3 things in place for the Boltz to be paying this much attention to Mariota.
    1) Boltz and PR have stipulated that (as of this moment) PR will not play here beyond 2015.
    2) Titans and Boltz already have the framework for trade in place.
    3) Titans and PR already have the framework for contract in place.
    That said, my hunch is we'll never know the full story unless the trade actually happens.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
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  4. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    in b4 Gotham burns
     
  5. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    At this point I'd be surprised if the interest isn't real, it sounds like more than due diligence.

    They either already have a deal done with Tennessee, and are just waiting to make sure Mariota falls to 2 to get it done. Or they have a deal with someone else (that likely doesn't include Rivers), and they're just hoping he slides far enough.

    Or it's all just smokescreen to shift focus away from guys they actually want, while propping up the draft stock of a good kid. :cautious:
     
  6. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    If we trade anyone I'd be happy trading Donald butler, 3rd,6th,7th next year 2nd and 4th
     
  7. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet 28m28 minutes ago

    After #Chargers work out Mariota in Ore., they’ll head to LA to work out #UCLA QB Brett Hundley tomorrow. Might not need to trade up for him



    I'd much rather this, a guy who McCoy can probably get the best out of, who can sit on the bench for a year. we don't have to trade the franchise or the farm.
     
  8. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I wont believe the trade rumors till I see it. I would think that trading #1 places and losing PR would be a losing proposition for the Chargers.
     
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  9. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I will say this. I've done a lot more research on Mariotta the longer and louder these rumors grow.

    My $0.02? If you are going to spend a pick on a spread system QB, this is the one to do it. Intangibles are exquisite, hard worker, great arm, very good accuracy (though wasn't called on to throw in tight spots) and of course he's a great runner. Two things of note; people routinely say he doesn't get rattled even when things go bad (something Rivers admittedly has had trouble with) and he doesn't make the same mistake twice. He has to learn to work beyond first reads (though he's better at that already than many spread QBs), learn when to run vs. throw (all running QBs have this problem) and practice taking snaps behind center.

    I think Fossil hit the nail mostly on the head, there had to have been some initial discussion about this between Chargers/Titans and possibly Titans/Rivers prior to this. The more I think about it, the more I believe this is legitimate interest. You don't create a smokescreen THIS elaborate to.... get Philly to trade up with you? to help Whisenhunt? No way. I think the Chargers are preparing for life after Rivers, maybe not just life in LA (did tweet Krasovic who said possible but not likely Mariotta QBs San Diego Chargers). And it can be said that Mariotta could fit the K-Gun and what McCoy has done with QBs like Tebow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2015
  10. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Agreed. But having watched almost every game of Mariotas career myself I wouldn't pigeonhole him as a scheme dependent QB. A guy like Kaepernick is scheme dependent because he lacks the awareness to make more than one read, two max. I've seen Mariota stand in the pocket and work through receivers, so I think he's capable of playing in a pro scheme. Which is why you see guys like Mike Mayock moving him up their boards every week.

    Having said that, the fact that he hasn't played under center means he's going to take actual coaching effort (god forbid), and that makes teams nervous. Also his mechanics go to piss sometimes, but so did Rivers' early on.
     
  11. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    This is either the greatest smokescreen ever or our 2015 season is about to go down the drain. I really hope we don't trade Rivers.
     
  12. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Remember when Marty "engineered" his own firing? Don't be overly surprised if Rivers "orchestrates" his own trade! ;)
     
  13. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    I am not and have never been big on college QBs who have not honed their skills under the center, as classically trained NFL QBs do. Alas, and I have been on the record on here regarding this issue, that more and more college offenses are now geared toward the K-Gun, Spread 'em and option reads, as opposed to the former which used to be the NFL QB incubator in the past decades.

    If TT, McCoy and the Chargers brass want to follow Seattle's blueprint ala Russell Wilson, they'd better shore up and bolster that mediocre D, as fearsome a D as the Seahawks!
     
  14. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I think we're seeing ownership having identified a guy that they want as the showpiece for a move. I live in the LA area, I'll be the first one to admit that outside of the Rams, who have a ready-made fanbase still lingering from the 90's, the "new fans" that franchises moving there are going to be targeting aren't going to be patient waiting for a team to "find their next franchise QB". You need to come with a marketable one in place or the second team in the market, assuming they have one, is going to blow you out of the water in terms of draw. The LA fan base (and I expect it from San Diegans given the rivalry, but I'm more referring to the rest of the country here) does get a polarized rap in that people want to claim they won't support a team unless they're another Lakers cranking out dynasty caliber teams. But a good many Angelinos just aren't interested in paying the ticket prices ($40 to sit in the absolute nosebleeds and not be able to tell the different between players and fleas at Staples and Honda Centers) to back a team that isn't even competitive.

    I don't want to turn this into a "defending LA" post, just adding context to make my point. You need at least Andy Dalton (a QB that isn't going to be a liability preventing you from winning even if he's really not good enough to get you deep in the playoffs) at QB for the LA market. If Rivers has made it clear he's not going north, and since we know that what the Spanoses care about most is making money, then it's highly possible ownership has made it clear that waiting until we've sucked for a season after Phil's moved on to draft the next QB because we'll be very early in the order is not an option. Mariota is the type of QB that in terms of everything except the development he requires is effectively Telesco's and McCoy's wet dream. I don't think selling them on Mariota specifically is all that difficult, it's selling them on them having job security if the team doesn't make the playoffs in 2015 because premium assets were put towards build for 2016 and on.

    The draft is really, really unpredictable. Winston isn't even the lock to Tampa that some are selling him as right now (there are members with some clout in the Glazer family that have expressed specific concerns about whether Jameis is an appropriate face of the franchise). I believe if they have the opportunity to get Mariota without having to trade away Rivers to do it, this FO probably does it. It's cutthroat to Rivers, but he's being cutthroat with us, so honestly turnabout is fair play. MM has also been training dropbacks since January. Obviously it's not something you get down like second-nature overnight, but it's something that can be functional by pre- or at worst mid-season, and I think what gets glazed over is how many snaps QB's all across the league take from shotgun nowadays and not just on obvious passing plays. At worst, he's Ryan Tannehill (obviously accepting that opinions on Tannehill will vary), who was no more raw or less coming out of an actually simpler spread offense that required less reads than Oregon's does than Mariota is currently. Mariota needs to refine his footwork and pocket presence - these are the roots of every technical flaw he has currently. So it boils down to how much do we trust McCoy and Reich? If we were talking Norv, then yes, I'd be legitimate convinced we'd ruin this kid because Norv would try to force him into being something he's not.

    That said, if Rivers is let to walk, I'd be willing to bet we see Weddle walk as well. He's been the one rallying for us to use assets to bolster the team for a Super Bowl run - this would be a move that (even if Rivers is kept) would far more say that keeping the status quo and getting healthy should be "enough to win" this year.
     
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  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    To be fair, the reason why a that trend has occurred in the NCAA is because roughly 5-10 programs out of what... 128 FBS teams, have had a virtual monopoly/heavy inside track on the recruitment of the top OL prospects for the past decade-plus. And you had to figure that when 2-3 coaches started finding the kind of success to regularly compete for NC's the way that Meyer (at Florida... now that he's at Ohio State which is one of those OL mogul schools, he's gotten even more of an advantage), Stoops (at Oklahoma), and Kelly (at Oregon) did, that there would be copycats - it's the same trend that occurs in the Big Boy League.
     
  16. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Oh yes I do not disagree at all. Successful blueprints get copied all the time across both amateur and professional leagues. With that said, the fully successful implementation of the college spread offenses in the NFL have proven to be much more challenging because of the higher level of the defenses in the pro. Of course one way to dilute and to neutralize that already weakened side of the ball would be to impose even more strict rules, concerning legal contacts and hits.
     
  17. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    So I can just throw away any expectations that we will compete for a Super Bowl this year. I like Mariota but I want to win now not 6 years into the future. Give Rivers the talent and we will be competing with the Patriots and Colts in 2015, not Titans and Buccaneers.
     
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  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Part of that is because coaches/coordinators try to duplicate, not innovate. Chip Kelly has managed to implement spread concepts (as has McD-Bag in New England when he had a QB that was an actual QB and not Tim Tebow) to a high level of success in the league (league-leaders in rushing, non-reliance on "true #1 receivers," breaking/setting offensive records), but that was because they adapted and created rather than tried to just replicate what someone else did. They made it their own. Do I have a hell of a lot of confidence in Reich to do that? Jury's still out - it's not looking optimistic right now, but I do want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he'd never called plays prior to last season either - and we have seen ability to innovate and adapt from McCoy as a scheme-maker.

    Mariota isn't just a "product of Oregon's system" the way that some want to bill him. Compare him to past QB's in that same system - he blew them OUT OF THE WATER statistically, both in cumulative, single-season, and efficiency statistics. Did the system augment his abilities, play to his strengths, help guard against his weaknesses? Yes. Is that really any different from how systems operate and do the same for virtually every quarterback in the NFL? Not in the slightest. Mariota's not there yet from a technical standpoint, there's no disputing that. But (and not saying you are) those that want to knock him way the hell down a rung because he's not coming out of a pro-style offense are being very naive. Tedford's offense that Rodgers came out of at Cal only had the most rudimentary pro concepts (yes, he took a majority of snap under center, but it was designed to get the ball out early and let short-distance receivers make big gains off YAC) while leaning heavily on the run. Stoop's offense that Bradford came out of at Oklahoma was conceptually and structurally extremely similar to Kelly's Oregon offense. Cam Newton was operating from spread and read-option concepts exclusively at both Florida and Auburn. Even Russell Wilson (though he's an anomaly, I feel) was operating from a spread-option at NC State and operated about 40% of the time at Wisconsin until late in the season there. The spread that Mariota is coming out of doesn't perfectly translate to the next level, but it does so a hell of a lot better than Art Briles' or Rich Rod's versions do (where there are option routes on virtually every play - whereas Oregon's offense merely presents a ready "check-down" option on every play - not unlike what both New England and Philly - and to a lesser degree Peyton's lauded offense - use).
     
  19. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    Let's say that Rivers stays for 2015 but indicates to the team that it's his last year with the team. Which swcond tier QB is better? Petty, Grayson or Hundley.

    If the Chargers draft a QB on day two (or obviously on day one) we'll know that Rivers is gone after this year and so are the Chargers
     
  20. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    If I had to pick one, maybe Hundley. But I wouldn't take him before round 3.
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Of them, Grayson and Hundley have the potential to be above-average starters, but both have tons of question marks. And both Petty and Hundley are more than a single season away from being ready, IMO. We'd legitimately be better off playing Sorenson for a year if Rivers left and letting him lead us to a Top 3 pick that could be spent on a QB. But if Dean and Alex have any aspirations of moving to LA they're not going to tempt having their first season there be one where we're among the worst performers in the league.

    Grayson just doesn't wow me at all. I know of some who do like him, but he's a limited player IMO. Petty is just a slightly younger version of Brandon Weeden (with a weaker arm, IMO) who maxes out (and that's assuming he actually reaches his ceiling) as an Andy Dalton/Alex Smith sort. Hundley has all the talent in the world, and I do believe he genuinely wants to maximize it... I just don't see the mental acuity for the game. He's the true Colin Kaepernick clone in this draft, except he doesn't have Kaep's cannon arm.
     
  22. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    Just for giggles, what if the first team up in the draft decides to throw a monkey wrench into the works and they take Mariota? What would/could that do to the supposed deals that are/aren't in place between certain teams?
     
  23. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    So it´s basically one of these options

    1) hope that Philip signs an extension even if the team moves, if he doesn't, draft a QB in 2016 (which hopefully wont be a top 15 pick)
    2) draft a developmental QB in the latter rounds and hope that after seating behind Philip for a year he's ready to start
    3) Trade Philip and get Mariota
    4) Trade Philip, don't get Mariota and play Clemens or Sorensen and hope the team plays bad enough so they can draft a QB with a top 5 pick in 2016

    Yikes!
     
  24. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

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    I assume that any deal with the Titans would only be done if Mariota is on the board
     
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  25. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Not necessarily, I believe if any trade goes down involving Rivers, it will most likely happen before the draft. Due to the fact that a physical and contract negotiation would need to take place, this isn't something that will would happen in a 10 minute window.

    As for Mariota, if Rivers for #2 isn't in play before the draft, Don't expect a trade on April 30th at 5:10. Look for the Chargers to draft Hundley, Petty, or Grayson higher than their projected spot to make sure which ever one they do decide to draft is sure to be on their roster.

    This entire process has basically wiped their entire board they were setting up in Feb. and early March when they thought a contract extension was considered to be done by now.
     
  26. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    This doesn't bode well for a Rivers extension I guess..

    Anyways, I trust Telesco. Mariota may not be ready to start from Day 1.. But if McCoy got something out of Tebow that no other coach could I believe he could do it with Mariota. Add in the fact paying a QB a rookie contract for 4-5 years and relocating that money to bolster the rest of the roster is a major plus.

    I would be very sad to see Rivers leave, but at the same time I like the fact we have a back up plan in the works rather than being hung out to dry. I don't see Hundley or Grayson being the answer, but with Mariota and his work ethic, I think he has the ability to be a very good QB in this league.
     
  27. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    I would take a flyer out on Grayson, he reminds me of Drew Brees. I would much rather we waited until the 2016 draft and drafted Hackenberg than reach at this draft class.
     
  28. Andres M188

    Andres M188 BoltTalker

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    I will admit that it looks bad on the Phillip Rivers front, however I can't sell myself to think that Winston or Mariota are going to be starting QB's in this league. With that said, I am more scared of Winston than I am of Mariota. I am looking forward to Tampa Bay wasting their pick, and having more quality players trickle down... such as Larry English! :D
     
  29. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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  30. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    Didn't Johnny Manziel have the highest wonderlic score?
     

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