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Bolts are smart to pursue Suh

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Why Chargers are smart to pursue Suh
    By Tom Krasovic


    If an NFL Media Insider report is true that the Chargers are preparing to making a run at Ndamukong Suh, congratulations are due Chargers owner Dean Spanos and General Manager Tom Telesco.

    Suh is a franchise player on defense.

    Pairing him with franchise quarterback Philip Rivers, who shares the same agent, would make the Chargers an instant contender to reach Super Bowl 50.

    A bid for Suh, the NFL's best defensive tackle, also means the Chargers realize these are urgent times for them.

    Spanos wants a new stadium in San Diego, with public money paying for most of it.

    Voters are less likely to give him what he wants if the on-field results remain lukewarm, so the Chargers may need a Super Bowl run to get the $600 million or more they seek from the public treasury.

    When voters earmarked what turned out to be $300 million for a Padres ballpark in 1998, it was after the team won a franchise-best 98 games and ascended to its second World Series in 29 years. San Diegans were giddy. A Super Bowl run would make them giddier.

    For football reasons as well, now is the time for the Chargers to go for it.

    Several of their best performers are moving past the typical prime years. Rivers will be 34 next December, Eric Weddle just turned 30, Antonio Gates will be 35 in June and Danny Woodhead blew out 30 candles two months ago.

    The top defender in the front-7, Corey Liuget, is entering his walk year. With Suh next to him, Liuget could go from solid to very good production.

    Suh's presence also would improve the Chargers' chances of getting worthy returns on big investments to several linebackers. They plowed a $51.8 million contract into Donald Butler last March, two draft picks apiece into Manti Te'o and Jerry Attaochu and a first-round pick in Melvin Ingram, only to see all four yield spotty seasons in 2015.

    Injuries sidetracked those four linebackers, but all four would welcome the chance to draft off Suh.

    Suh changes an entire defense for the better. He's too powerful for one blocker and stout enough to occupy two blockers who weigh 300-plus pounds, enabling his linebackers to run unimpeded. He's also apt to whip a blocker off the snap and pressure the quarterback, creating incompletions and turnovers.

    Up-the-middle pressure without blitzing is toxic for most offenses.

    Of course other teams will dangle huge sums before Suh, too.

    Suh has said he will go where agent Jimmy Sexton decides, and Sexton is known to seek a contract that will beat the six-year, $100-million deal the Texans issued J.J. Watt last September. Watt's contract was a record for a defensive player for average annual value and guaranteed money of $51.9 million.

    I wrote in January that it's unrealistic to expect the Chargers to sign Suh, because other teams have more cap space.

    What's more, two potential bidders, Miami and Jacksonsville, can offer him considerably more take-home pay just by matching a California team's offer. That's because Florida (along with Arizona and Washington) doesn't have a state income tax, where California levies a 13 percent tax on top earners.

    Still, it's worth a try.

    NFL team have ways of coming up with money that's not easily seen in the cap numbers.

    A mid-tier team in cap space for 2015, the Chargers trail only the Raiders for cap space in 2016.

    It may take a guarantee of $60 million or more for the Chargers to match Suh's top offer. For a 28-year-old whose office is a muscle-bound mosh pit, that's a risky proposition, and free agent history is rife with splashy moves that left the paying team covered in mud.

    But overpaying for greatness is difficult to do.

    Darrelle Revis is to cornerback what Suh is to defensive tackle. Guaranteeing him $12 million for one season and allowing him the chance to be an unrestricted free agent in 2015, Bill Belichick brought Revis to the Patriots last year and went on to win the Super Bowl.

    The Packers were a football outpost until Hall of Fame executive Ron Wolf and Bill Walsh protege Mike Holmgren persuaded Reggie White -- for my money, the best NFL defensive end not named Deacon Jones -- to sign with them. Green Bay went on to perennial playoff contention, two Super Bowls and one Lombardi Trophy.

    Having gone 0-for-49 in terms of Super Bowl victories, the Chargers should appreciate by now that scared money doesn't win.

    NFL team have ways of coming up with money that's not easily seen in the cap numbers.

    A mid-tier team in cap space for 2015, the Chargers trail only the Raiders for cap space in 2016.

    It may take a guarantee of $60 million or more for the Chargers to match Suh's top offer. For a 28-year-old whose office is a muscle-bound mosh pit, that's a risky proposition, and free agent history is rife with splashy moves that left the paying team covered in mud.

    But overpaying for greatness is difficult to do.

    Darrelle Revis is to cornerback what Suh is to defensive tackle. Guaranteeing him $12 million for one season and allowing him the chance to be an unrestricted free agent in 2015, Bill Belichick brought Revis to the Patriots last year and went on to win the Super Bowl.

    The Packers were a football outpost until Hall of Fame executive Ron Wolf and Bill Walsh protege Mike Holmgren persuaded Reggie White -- for my money, the best NFL defensive end not named Deacon Jones -- to sign with them. Green Bay went on to perennial playoff contention, two Super Bowls and one Lombardi Trophy.

    Having gone 0-for-49 in terms of Super Bowl victories, the Chargers should appreciate by now that scared money doesn't win.
     
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    :eek: "...overpaying for greatness is difficult to do." :eek:

    WTF?!?

    Of course, that makes the ridiculous assumption that you will be getting "greatness" in the future.

    Yes, as Albert Haynesworth often says,
    "Who can imagine an All-Pro defensive lineman with attitude and a $100 million contract turn out badly?"
    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/fre...haynesworth-has-some-advice-for-ndamukong-suh

    Anyone who pays a fortune for Suh, and then watches him suspended by the league for his 50th
    flagrant unsportsmanlike offense, has no one but themselves to blame.

    The Chargers aren't one player away...they have many holes...even if Suh returns to his 2010 form,
    and stays healthy, and stays out of trouble (yes, let's mortgage our future on those 3 big "ifs")
    ...the Chargers would have to sell the farm to get Suh...and even if all of the above magically went our way,
    he alone does not make the Chargers Super Bowl contender, no matter how much us fans may wish it.
    Suh is a huge talent...and a massive risk...almost certainly a risk the Chargers shouldn't take...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm a little leery myself of signing Suh but let's not just assume he's going to fail just because Haynesworth did.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    No one is "assuming" he'll fail...just acknowledging that (in light of "overpaying for greatness is difficult to do") :rolleyes:
    it is, in fact a very real possibility...but even if Suh performed better than the average huge dollar FA,
    putting all the gold in one player's pockets means that the multitude of other holes the Chargers have
    don't get seriously addressed...this roster is not just a player or two away...
     
  5. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    I just don't get the logic of NOT wanting one of the best DL in the game on your team.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  6. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I get the logic.

    1. He's not the best DL in the game when he's not on the field because of a suspension

    and

    2. Having the best DL in the game doesn't mean much if you can no longer put good players around him because you're giving him too much of your cap space

    You don't have to fully agree with either argument to understand them.
     
  7. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Nope I understand where your coming from.

    1. He was suspended 3 years ago, for 2 games.
    2. Having the best DL in the game makes your entire unit better, especially what Suh does. He's a 3 down DL. He draws double teams and frees up players around him to make plays. If Liuget was getting double teamed and still producing here and there the last 2 years, what makes you think doubling Suh and giving Liuget 1 v 1's won't be a significant advantage for this defense?

    Sure, we have holes on this roster that need to be plugged. But, we have a significant amount of cap space the next 5+ years, with key players needing to be resigned, sure. However, we can fatten his contract to those mid years he'd be here. He doesn't have to make $15m his 1st year in San Diego.

    Suh is a game changer. Both in run defense and pass defense. The guy has a crazy work ethic and hunger. His problems have been on the field. And you know what, I'll take that aggressiveness this defense has lacked in a long time. I want the other offenses to be scared of playing this defense. But, he does have to stop with some of his antics.

    Having arguably the best DL in the game, could significantly improve Liuget's development. Look at what Flowers did for Verrett in that short period of time. Hopefully we can re-sign him as well and extend Weddle. Then we can start plugging away on defense with depth.
     
  8. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    The 2nd one is a fair point, but I think it's too early to condemn a move as big as Suh until we know the actual contract details. He's a game changer, he's a guy you build around, so Telesco at least has to do his due diligence.

    Also lets remember this is Lance, he criticizes everyone who has any opinion about any player. Given that attitude, I think we can safely conclude he has no idea what talent the Chargers may or may not already have in place, or what a player like Suh brings to the table.
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    You can still have a player of Suh's contract stature on defense and put good players around him. It's all about your development and drafting and of course your bargain deals in free agency. Plenty of teams have done it before.
     
  10. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, you don't have to agree with an argument to understand it.

    Saying "I just don't get the logic of NOT wanting one of the best DL in the game on your team." oversimplifies the opposing argument making it sound like some people just don't like good players on the team for some unknown reason when there is a reason. It may be a reason you don't agree with but it's still an understandable reason with logic behind it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I have no doubt that Suh would help this team if landed and I like his game, he's a force to be reckoned with and OC's know this. On the Other hand, I don't agree with breaking bank on imports, grow your own and keep them happy and become the team most want to play for.
     
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  12. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Ok we all can agree that we would love to have Suh, but he will eventually end up out of our price range which is why many like myself have little to no hopes for landing him. It's not that we don't want him, we're just looking a different players.

    Personally I would like to see them use the money that would be for Suh to sign or players equal to

    CB Brandon Flowers
    OG Orlando Franklin
    NT Dan Williams
    OLB Jason Worlids

    We still have to consider the future for guys like Rivers, Weddle, Liuget
     
  13. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I don't think Telesco would intentionally do anything that would preclude us from extending those 3 key players.
     
  14. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Suh to the Dolphins...

    Adam Schefter
    3 mins ·
    Per @mortreport: Barring breakdown in formal contract negotiations, Ndamukong Suh will sign with Dolphins. Deal around $114M, $60M gtd
     
  15. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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  16. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Yeah nobody is going to match that kind of stupid money. Absolutely ludicrous for a non-QB.

    And they're going to have to cut at least $10M in cap space, probably $15M so they can afford to draft players. Cutting Wheeler only saved them 200k.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
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  17. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  18. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Good. I'm so glad Chargers aren't taking on an insane contract like that. He shouldn't be paid more than Watt anyways.
     
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  19. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer 15m15 minutes ago
    Also, the Lions offered DT Ndamukong Suh a deal worth $17 million per year with $58 million in guarantees.


    Wow, he was serious about chasing every single dime.
     
  20. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Glad the FO rattled their sabers on this deal, but equally glad they didn't pay insane $$$ for him.
     
  21. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    So, will we end up with any of our targets?
     
  22. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    I think quite a few of TT's targets aren't even on our collective radar. Just read in another thread we're making a strong play for a Seahawks LB Malcolm Smith.
     

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