1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Brady gets away with it

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    The Judge overturned the NFL suspension...

    Why? Did he rule that Brady was innocent of the charges? Nope.

    He ruled that the NFL did not warn Brady that he could be suspended for cheating. I read the full ruling...

    So this ***-clown Pats fan judge rules that because Brady was not told that Cheating is wrong, and can be punished, he cant be punished. Oh my god!
     
  2. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,649
    Ratings:
    +505
    Un effin believable. But hey if Roger of the $4m dollars a mth pay packet was involved you know it will end in disaster.
     
  3. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,325
    Ratings:
    +302
    I haven't seen any written decision on this yet, but when I heard that the decision was based at least in part on the basis of lack of notice, my initial thoughts were:

    1. Does Berman mean no notice other than in the CBA itself?

    2. How is the NFL supposed to anticipate every possible way in which an individual could engage in conduct detrimental to the integrity of the league and spell it out in advance? The NFL had to pre-warn Brady that conspiring to use and using illegally deflated footballs constituted conduct detrimental to the integrity of the league?

    I knew the judge was clueless when he previously stated that he didn't understand the PED analogy. Because that analogy is so obvious, it is not the kind of thing that I would be admitting publicly if I were the judge.

    Virtually every media legal expert believed the NFL would win based upon the law, but sometimes you draw a loose cannon of a judge and you get a bad result that is inconsistent with the law. That has happened in cases I have handled on several occasions.

    But the good news is that usually when that happens and you appeal, the result gets overturned as the appellate body usually gets the law right when the ruling really is contrary to applicable law.
     
  4. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    Ed Werder ‏@Edwerderespn 2h2 hours ago
    Source says #Cowboys DL Greg Hardy will discuss with union whether to appeal his 4-game suspension now that Brady overturned

    So, how long until Peterson files for damages? Or any other NFL player who has been suspended, but not for taking drugs?
     
  5. gonzokrb

    gonzokrb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    206
    Ratings:
    +64
    The brass of the NFL are clueless! The bad part, so is this idiot Judge.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    Is that Ray Rice calling his lawyer?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
  8. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
  9. Bonzi Jones

    Bonzi Jones BoltTalker

    Joined:
    May 8, 2014
    Messages:
    418
    Ratings:
    +84
    Sean Payton and the Saints need to call and sue the league too... Its just ridiculous... I can knowingly cheat once you dont warn me that what I am doing is wrong and get off free. But I cant take improperly labelled supplements that have hidden banned ingredients. I can also be banned for actions unrelated to the NFL, but not punished for CHEATING during the game. And not because I wasn't caught, but because I wasn't told that if I did get caught cheating I would be punished.

    This not even a first time thing for this team... Oh well, we all shouldn't be surprised by the verdict. Like everytime the Patriots and Brady is involved, the end result is always a new rule put in place to "correct the issue".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,333
    Ratings:
    +504
    So basically our corrupted, moral-less world now needs to be told they could get in trouble for cheating. I remember when you did something wrong, you got in trouble, you served you time, then you apologized and went on. This ******* entitled world we live in now you actually have to be told that doing something wrong will net you X amount of trouble. How morally bankrupt is the law when you know the guys guilty but you cant punish him because you didn't warn him ahead of time. I fear for the world my kids are going to grow up in.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. Boltz_from_Oz

    Boltz_from_Oz BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    212
    Ratings:
    +143

    This whole trial was not to determine whether Brady is guilty or not - that's NOT why they're in court. Its to determine that the NFL followed due process - which they didn't. Ironic that everyone quickly jumps on the Patriots for allegedly not helping with the investigation, but say nothing when the NFL do the same.

    The NFL are aiming to win this case so they can get a rubber stamp approval from up high that they (or more notably - our white knight Roger Goodell) can conduct their own kangaroo courts.

    You are taking that ruling out of context as well. The point being...under NFL's own rules ball tampering is a $25k team fine. End of. Therefore to arbitrarily rule a 4 game suspension (equivalent to a $4million fine) shows the NFL are not even following their own rules. In short - if you think the Pats are guilty - fine them $25k.

    I'm sure you noted the judge poked plenty of holes in the Wells Report throughout the trail as well, didn't you? There is NO evidence showing ball tampering and in fact every ball (Colts included) fall within the expectations of the Ideal Gas Law. Both sides played with underinflated balls in the first half...and the Colts played with underinflated balls in the second - as proven by the 4 balls they tested after the game...before the NFL quickly stoppped testing them.

    The Chargers should be fined $3million and Philip Rivers suspended for 4 games for towel-gate for being 'generally aware'. If the NFL win this case they can just as likely make that ruling, and no player or club has any recourse because the NFL can hold their makeshift kangaroo court and rule what they like.
     
  12. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    Oh yeah, the Brady didnt do it guy.... :roflmao:
     
  13. Boltz_from_Oz

    Boltz_from_Oz BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    212
    Ratings:
    +143
    Oh yeah....one of the many conspiracy theory nutbags that can't get his head around science, the law and due process....:roflmao:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. House of Hayne

    House of Hayne Chargers Smash

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    649
    Ratings:
    +204
    I smell payoff for playoffs
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,203
    Ratings:
    +1,026
    Brady ought to consider murdering someone he despises because I think that he'll get away with it. Note to Geisel, don't you dare cuckolding the Golden Boy :)
     
  16. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,347
    Ratings:
    +1,734
    It's obvious, the judge that made the ruling just happens to live in Vermont, and bets heavy on Patsie games! Crooked bastards!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,328
    Ratings:
    +341
    I'll say it again, I don't think I can be a NFL fanatic for what the NFL has become (mostly in the name of player safety/increasing net value) of course all betterment of the game.

    Move the kickoff ok..... move the extra point??? Are they jus bored?
     
  18. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    10,930
    Ratings:
    +1,748
  19. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,584
    Ratings:
    +378
    It really is true. The Patriots are untouchable.
     
  20. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    2,325
    Ratings:
    +302
    Dude, your analysis is completely flawed. Don't put too much stock in the determination of one loose cannon judge. It is not uncommon for a lower level judge to make a bad ruling that gets reversed on appeal. That happens all the time.

    In this case, we all knew there might be trouble when the judge stated that he did not understand the PED analogy, which was about as straightforward as it gets. To me, that showed that the judge was disingenuous.

    Further, even if one were to agree with your alternate reality that what Brady did could fall within the realm of an equipment violation, your analysis totally fails to comprehend that it is possible for a single act to violate more than one rule. Under the law, the body charged with enforcing the rules is not limited to asserting just one rule violation or one theory of the case.

    So, to the extent that the NFL may have fined Brady $25K, it was not required to limit its determination to that alone.

    And you are just wrong when you claim that there is no evidence in this case showing ball tampering. Evidence was offered to prove that and that evidence was accepted by the trier of fact. The issue where you are concerned is that you do not find that evidence to be convincing. You have that right. But Goodell had every right under the CBA to make the very factual determinations that he made whether or not you or anyone else agrees with them.

    You are misrepresenting the record when you suggest that there is no evidence that supports the league's determinations. In short, you are being untruthful in that assertion.

    Moreover, there has been unbelievable "headupbuttedness" when it comes to the concept of evidence in this case. Even the judge used the phrase "no direct evidence". But this ignores the entire history of jurisprudence. Since when does the evidence have to be direct evidence? Outside of this proceeding and throughout the entire history of our legal system, there has been this concept called circumstantial evidence.

    Simply put, there does not need to be one iota of direct evidence to establish that it is more likely than not that Brady did what the NFL claims he did. In this case, whether or not you agree with it, there was expert testimony offered to establish tampering. Goodell is entitled to find that evidence persuasive. Goodell is entitled to reject testimony offered in support of Brady as being not credible because there were some pretty obvious lies being told. Goodell gets to make that call and as long as he offers some basis in reason for why he has made the call he has made, his determination should not legally be subject to being second guessed.

    Regarding legal notice, Judge Berman has raised the level required to the level at which the league will need a professional fortune teller to be able to enforce the conduct detrimental rule since they somehow would have to be able to guess at how players will specifically violate generally worded rules that were designed to encompass a variety of conduct specifically because the exact conduct that would violate the rule in each instance could not reasonably be anticipated in advance of the violation. In this respect, the judge's determination is asinine.

    Lastly, your Charger towel analysis is misplaced, which is completely in line with your other flawed takes on this matter. Since you have overlooked it, the NFL determined that the Chargers violated no rules with the towels as the towels were not illegal at the time they were used.

    That is very different than the situation here with Brady in which he conspired with Patriots employees to violate rules regarding footballs to gain a competitive advantage. The situation with Brady is most similar to that of the PED cases just as Goodell correctly determined.
     
  21. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    924
    Ratings:
    +481
  22. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +389
    So in Vermont, stop signs contain fine print that lays out the schedule of fines? Bank doors are plastered with stickers explaining robbery sentencing guidelines? :tdown:
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  23. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  24. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    I wonder if the CBA mentioned anything that gave the NFL the right to suspend the Saints players and their coach...
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  26. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,994
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Yeah, I'm staying out of this. It's pretty obvious that people are more content to let their (arguably merited) hatred of Brady and the Pats cloud their willingness to look at this objectively.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  27. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,044
    Ratings:
    +4,979
    Who is not looking at this objectively?
    http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784

    I have read multiple sources on this and they all agree on the timeline and Bradys actions. He destroyed the cell phone that covers the 4 month window needed before he could turn it over, even though he was told that Wells wanted to have someone review it's information. What is not objective about that?

    Lets not pretend that the Patriots and Brady have been a paragon of sportsmanship...
     
  28. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    924
    Ratings:
    +481
    tmp_22991-FB_IMG_1441466621490400204247.jpg
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  29. Montrose

    Montrose BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    751
    Ratings:
    +223
  30. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,347
    Ratings:
    +1,734
    ^^^ Only in America, where the criminals get more air time and publicity than the victims... No pun intended.
     

Share This Page