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Brennan: Hardy remains unapologetic, yet will be cheered on Sunday. Sigh

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Hardy's return has some people unhappy, or so it would appear...

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2015/10/07/brennan-hardy-cowboys/73503702/

    [​IMG] Christine Brennan, USA TODAY Sports9:12 a.m. EDT October 7, 2015

    Greg Hardy is a young man who has been known to tackle a quarterback or two, as well as his one-time girlfriend.

    For the former, he has received the usual accolades. For the latter, he was kicked out of the NFL with pay for all but one game last season, then without pay for the first four games of this season.

    Now he’s back, and he’s talking. Unlike Ray Rice, though, he isn’t apologizing for his acts of domestic violence. No, he’s telling jokes that he thinks are funny. He’s talking about Tom Brady’s wife. And other wives. And he’s calling his time away from the game “the most awesome period of my life, man. I’m a Dallas Cowboy. Dream come true.”

    If there’s one man in professional sports who should be contrite, it’s Hardy. Clearly, he doesn’t have it in him.

    In July 2014, Hardy was found guilty of assaulting his ex-girlfriend, Nicole Holder, and threatening to kill her. He appealed the judge’s ruling and asked for a jury trial. In February, prosecutors in North Carolina said charges would be dropped when Holder, who was paid a settlement by Hardy, could not be found.

    It’s important to recall the details of exactly what Hardy did to Holder because, unlike Rice, he was not caught on videotape. Hardy threw Holder onto a futon covered with at least four semiautomatic rifles and three other guns, dragged her by her hair from room to room, shoved her against a wall and put his hands around her neck, applying enough pressure to leave visible marks.

    Hardy, 27, had not spoken publicly about this, or anything else, since signing with the Cowboys in March. So when reporters showed up at his locker Tuesday, every word was a revelation.

    Asked if he intended to speak out against domestic violence or involve himself with a local shelter, Hardy instead talked about sticking to the “game plan." He said he is excited that his return to the game happens to come the week the Cowboys play theNew England Patriots.

    “I love seeing Tom Brady, he’s cool as crap,” Hardy said. “Have you seen his wife? I hope she comes to the game. I hope her sister comes to the game, all her friends come to the game. One of my favorite games of the year, guys.”

    Asked what he would say to those who feel he should not be on the team because he was found guilty by a judge of domestic violence, Hardy replied, “God bless you. That’s the message.”

    What he learned most about himself through the ordeal, Hardy said, was that he’s a “really good pass rusher when I put my mind to it.” His central concerns now, he said, are winning and getting sacks, adding that, “I’m really good at that.”

    This is as good a time as any to mention that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodellactually gave Hardy a 10-game suspension for this season, but Hardy and the NFL Players Association fought Goodell and eventually were able to get the suspension reduced to four games. Perhaps the thinking was that Hardy had learned his lesson.

    Ten games sounds pretty good now, doesn’t it? Or, how about the rest of his career?

    There’s even more from Hardy’s meeting with the press. A reporter mentioned that he was sure the wife of Jacksonville quarterback Blake Bortles was attractive as well. (I actually remember the days when reporters didn’t ask about the appearance of players’ wives, but games and strategy and things like that.)

    “Is she?” Hardy asked. “This kind of information is important. That’s how I select myPro Bowls.”

    Lovely.

    I’d like to close by giving Hardy an example of what an apology actually looks and sounds like.

    “Domestic violence is real,” Rice told ESPN’s Jemele Hill in an interview over the summer. “It happens every 12 seconds as we speak. I made a life-long commitment to my wife and to my daughter, to the survivors of domestic violence, to go out there and not only help but share my story so that men can make better decisions. That was the worst decision I’ve ever made in my life.

    “To the survivors of domestic violence, I understand how real it is, and I don’t want to ever take that for granted because this is a real issue in our society. My video put the light out there. If you have never seen what domestic violence looks like and you look at my video, I could understand why some people would never forgive me.”

    Remind me again why Rice is considered persona non grata in the NFL, while Hardy will be welcomed back with open arms on Sunday.
     
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  2. Slam

    Slam BoltTalker

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    Disgusting, it sounds like he has borderline personality disorder or just straight up brain damage...I don't get it
     
  3. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    I still can't believe Tom Telesco didn't sign him. I guess it's choirboys and nanny boys in Chargers Park. Hardy with Liuget would have given us a really pass rush duo.
     
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  4. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    That shiite ain't right...
     
  5. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    That is a great article, thanks for sharing. Hardy sure is scum.
     
  6. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I have a different view of all of this.

    I am sick to death of people in the media displaying their self righteous indignation over the politically correct cause of the month.

    For the utterly clueless author of the article, Hardy has no conviction and therefore is not going to admit to doing anything wrong or conduct himself as if he had done something wrong. He is innocent in the eyes of the law.

    Further, Hardy is in the NFL because he is a great football player and Ray Rice is not because he is viewed as no longer being very good, especially in relationship to his personal baggage.

    Moreover, the NFL is wholly unqualified to lead on social issues. Rather, they should be having those that are qualified lead them to their punishments so that they are consistent. They should adopt suspension rules that are based upon the punishments imposed by those that are qualified to make those assessments.

    The scale could be discussed, but should be a bright line rule to prevent the unqualified of the NFL from doing anything other than applying a predetermined formula. They are too stupid to do anything else. So, for example, a misdemeanor conviction could be worth 4 games; a felony conviction could be worth one season; and repeated offenses in a category would double the suspension for each additional round of suspension.

    Please note that serious felony offenders would time themselves out of the league by virtue of their real life sentence, so the fact that the suspension is only one year would be pretty much irrelevant.

    If an accused NFL player's charges are such a distraction pending or during trial, it makes sense to me to leave the decision up to the individual team regarding whether or not the player will be made inactive or released. The teams would be responsible for all salary consequences and could consider that in deciding whether or not to employ any particular player of a potentially checkered background.

    Anything not criminalized or not prohibited by league rules should be entirely outside of the league's disciplinary purview.

    By conducting itself in such a clear and above board fashion, the league would stay out of matters for which it is unqualified to handle and would develop consistent punishments for its players that would not fall victim to judicial review, bolstering its credibility in disciplinary proceedings among both the players and the public at large.

    And, as an added bonus, I would no longer have to see bull crap articles like the one at the beginning of this thread and could focus instead on Chargers football and NFL football.

    I do not take my moral teachings from those wholly unqualified to offer it at the NFL. As long as a player can help my team win, I would welcome that player to the team. And, while I wouldn't want him dating my sister, that certainly includes Hardy.
     
  7. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  8. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Maybe on the part of the Brennan woman that wrote the article. Sorry, lady, Greg's playing now. Have a nice day!

    My only gripe is that the self righteous media folks keep writing about it as if they were doing something other than being an annoyance.

    It would have bothered me that Telesco failed to pursue him, but I already assumed that he lacked the stones and intelligence to pursue obtaining him at a bargain discount, so it came as no surprise to me that we were not mentioned as a potential suitor for Hardy despite our woefully anemic pass rush and general wimpiness on defense.

    I might even speculate that Telesco's lack of stones is what Naked Pictures has in his pictures. But, on the other hand, it defies all logic that something that should already be known or at least strongly suspected would carry much in the way of blackmail value.
     
  9. House of Hayne

    House of Hayne Chargers Smash

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    image.jpeg
     
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  10. Slam

    Slam BoltTalker

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Yeah, it would be so much more convenient for you if we just pretended that domestic abuse didn't happen... Son you just went full retard!

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Domestic violence does exist. Law enforcement responds. The judicial system imposes punishment. The perpetrator pays his debt to society and/or the victim. Counselors counsel victims and perpetrators. Case closed. People move on with their lives.

    What we do not need is a bunch self-righteous, self-congratulatory media people sensationalizing the alleged criminal conduct of NFL players for their own purposes.

    What we do not need is for the PC bull machine to clamor unceasingly for a public apology/shaming at every perceived act of wrongdoing so that those caught up in the PC bull machine can look down their long noses on their target and thereby feel morally superior about themselves.

    Greg Hardy's business is settled. Maybe he got off too easily, maybe not. I was not there. I do not know. I do not know how much he may have paid to his alleged victim to settle things with her. But it is over and he can play, so enough about Greg Hardy already.

    There are plenty of ways to support the worthy cause of ending domestic violence that do not involve sensationalizing the comments of someone that constitute no crime and then straining to find any way that they could possibly relate to an issue that is closed and over as it relates to a particular player.

    Greg Hardy thinks Tom Brady's wife is good looking. So what?! I am thinking that opinion would be prevalent among men in our society. Greg Hardy likes to see women at his games. So what?!

    Greg Hardy does not owe this butthurt reporter or the PC bull machine any sort of apology. If he wronged the alleged victim, he may owe her an apology if he has not offered one already, but that is between Hardy and the alleged victim.

    What he owes Christine Brennan is his middle finger.

    And Conc, please don't call me a retard for possessing and exercising the ability to critically reason my way through the article's contents instead of merely following the PC bull machine like some rat following the pied piper.
     
  13. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You still going full retard.

    I guess while your vaunted legaleeze is flying you forget that those 'self-righteous, self-congratulatory media people' have every right and freedom to write what they did. Maybe you should just stop and think about that 'counselor'.

    If you don't want to be called something... Don't be something.

    Also when throwing around terms like Self-righteous and self-congratulatory, you might want to remember that people who are in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. So put the rock down.

    What we don't need is some jackass on the internet telling us what we need and don't need when they themselves try and tell everyone what they should and should not think.
     
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  14. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I do not dispute Brennan's right to write the article, just as I have the right to characterize the article as I have.

    What I see is a bunch of people commenting in this thread that are struggling to separate the various issues from a critical reasoning standpoint. I see people thinking, "Oh, domestic violence is bad, so this article that says it is bad and those that do it are bad must be a good article. And I had better say that otherwise it will look bad."

    You can think that domestic violence is bad and that those that do it are bad and still think 1) that the article is reaching from the standpoint of straining to relate new facts to an old issue, 2) that the domestic violence issue as it relates to Hardy is old news, and 3) that the atmosphere created in these types of cause and shame a person/demand an apology articles is of a self-righteous, self-congratulatory nature that not only does not promote the cause about which it writes, but actually detracts from the legitimate attention to which the issue is due when presented in an objective manner that is not offensive.

    If you didn't know who made the statements attributed Hardy in the article, honestly, would you have any problem with them? Of course you wouldn't. All it shows is that a person thinks a certain woman is attractive and likes having women around. Those are the additional facts that have triggered another round of discussion about Hardy.

    Sorry, but it is beyond weak to attribute any significance to those comments in terms of Hardy and issues with domestic violence.

    Again, with the possible exception of the alleged victim (we don't know what happened or if he has already apologized if he should have), Hardy owes nobody an apology. He has no conviction on his record for anything. Where does Brennan get off thinking that she in the proper position to be "giving Hardy an example of what an apology actually looks and sounds like". What an arrogant a$$!

    What that makes me feel like saying in response is that I have a better idea. Since she thinks she knows about these sorts of things, why doesn't Brennan show Hardy what an apology actually looks and sounds like by publishing another article that properly apologizes to Hardy for the content of the article set forth in this thread?

    See where my focus has been forced to go as a result of this article? Now, instead of focusing on the legitimate and worthy of discussion issue of domestic violence, I am focusing on how wrong and illogical it was for Brennan to draw any sort of conclusions based upon the comments that were made by Hardy; how Hardy does not owe the public an apology; and how much a real jerk this lady comes off sounding like for instructing Hardy in how to make an apology when it isn't at all clear that he owes one to anybody.

    Where is the issue of domestic violence in all of that thought process? Answer--nowhere. And that's why the article does that cause a real disservice and gets lost in the shuffle as just another in the latest of the annoyingly countless efforts by the PC bull machine.
     
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  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I don't know about that. It looks/sounds like just plain ol' misogyny and entitlement to me. I'd genuinely being interested to hear from his mother (though, chances are she'll refuse to believe he did any of what he was found guilty of doing) on how she feels about the fact that he son obviously has no respect for women.

    At the absolute best case scenario, this is a guy of the stupidity level of an Alton Smith - or who just plain DGAF.

    Personally, rather than chastise Hardy for being (likely) the piece of human garbage we knew him to be, I'm with Katie Nolan (and if anyone hasn't seen her rant on this from Wednesday night... go watch, it's fantastic!) - whoever runs the NFL's website needs to be taken to the wood shed. I mean, seriously, you greenlight posting the "guns blazing" and "I hope she brings her sister" comments in an article on NFL.com right below the logo of this "shield" you claim you're so concerned with protecting - which this month is also backed by a pink ribbon because you (want everyone to think) "care about women."
     
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  16. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It has absolutely nothing to do with PC. And everything to do with PR. Like it or not, the NFL is a business - at this point moreso than it is sport.

    Hardy has literally no tact whatsoever. And I would argue no sense whatsoever when it comes to business; last I checked he's on a one-year incentive-laden deal and if he wants that lucrative big-payday he's going to have to convince some team he's worth the headache - and even then he's likely to see very little willingness to commit guaranteed money in his direction. His record actually does show a conviction - an overturned one, unless he's had his record expunged. He's certainly entitled to maintain his innocence. Just as I, and a good number of those among the "public opinion" makeup, are entitled to believe that if he was so incredibly innocent, he wouldn't have needed to "settle (monetarily) out of court" with his accuser in an effort to get her to no-show his appeal. This is a man who, from a purely business perspective, should be doing it cleaner and more by-the-book if for no other reason than protecting his own damn earning potential. Two words, "No comment." That's all he has to learn.

    I mean, I suppose you must have defended OJ Simpson this vehemently as well. Because the criminal court didn't convict him, so obviously he didn't do it.

    There's a significant difference between signing "only choirboys" and not signing guys like Hardy who show no contrition for anything they've done - or demonstrate any tact. Just as there's a difference between walking on eggshells to stay constantly "PC" and being cognizant of basic human decency. Or just plain having the common sense that when the media eye is on you coming off a situation where - righteously or not - you looked like a real POS where women are concerned, you don't turn around and make misogynistic comments. Again... not being a misogynist is not being "PC," it's just being a decent human being.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
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  17. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Well, I would agree with you if you were right. :sneaky:

    First of all, Hardy does not have a conviction on his record. Hardy was found guilty of a misdemeanor in a bench trial by a North Carolina judge. Under North Carolina law, a misdemeanor criminal defendant has the right to appeal an adverse finding and get a trial de novo before a jury.

    That is not a standard appeal in which the result of the previous proceeding stands unless and until it is changed on appeal. Rather, a trial de novo is a brand new trial as if the first trial never existed. Thus, in this case, the result of the previous proceeding does not exist.

    Rather than proceed with the second trial, the prosecutor dismissed the case.

    You cannot assume the result of the second proceeding either, whether or not the alleged victim testified. There would have been a different trier of fact and we have no way of knowing whether or not Hardy offered all of the evidence he had to offer in the first trial.

    In fact, if a party knows that it can get a trial de novo if it loses, it may hold back some of its evidence so the other side does not get a preview of it at the first proceeding. That would be a very good reason not to read too much into the result of the bench proceeding.

    So, right off, there are two points. There is no conviction against Hardy. In the eyes of the law, he is innocent. Hardy denied wrongdoing and is not convicted of wrongdoing in this instance.

    Second, the result of the first proceeding that no longer exists was a conviction for a misdemeanor. That means that all of this is about some stupid misdemeanor conviction that doesn't even exist any more. I am trying to recall if Claus von Bulow got this much attention.

    I could not disagree more that an innocent man needs to somehow conduct himself differently than the rest of society.

    Further, this has everything to do with the PC bull machine. Brennan is taking exception to Hardy's recent statements and prior alleged, but unproven behavior as evidencing some sort of improper attitude toward women that society must not allow and that Hardy must apologize for having.

    Naturally, the NFL kowtowed to the PC bull machine in this case and in so many others. There's no surprise there, but it does disgust me that it happens and neither the NFL nor the sheep of our society do anything about it.

    As for Simpson and Hardy, I will tell that neither you nor I were there. Neither you nor I sat for all of the evidence in any of the cases.

    Two juries sat in the Simpson matter. Contrary to popular opinion, the results of those trials are not inconsistent in the least. One jury (in the criminal case) found Simpson not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of the killings. The other (in the civil case) found that there was a preponderance of evidence (more likely than not) that Simpson did wrongfully cause the deaths in question. The evidence cleared the lower evidentiary hurdle, but not the higher one. I am not in a position to dispute either finding.

    I would welcome Hardy to the Chargers because he is a good football player. If the law sees fit not to jail him, then I have no issue with him playing, especially not over some alleged misdemeanor. "Jerrah" gets mocked frequently, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Hardy signing ends up being one of the best free agent signings of this offseason. Hardy will not have to go too far to get a big money contract as Jones will probably want to keep him.

    Just out of curiosity, did you view Merriman in the same light as Hardy when Tila Tequila accused him of assaulting her and false imprisonment?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015
  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    For the record, Shawne failed to earn his "benefit of the doubt" based upon prior incidence. So while I considered Tila Tequila to be a gold-digging, reputation-monging (word representing a derogatory term for the female anatomy), I was past giving Merriman the benefit of the doubt because his past track record didn't afford him that. I actually was more willing to give him the BOD for the positive steroid pop which the evidence at hand afforded him more benefite of the doubt than the "eye-test" did.

    As to Hardy, if he actually field a quality campaign (mind you, I've followed him since he was at Indiana), I'm fairly confident Jerry Jones (and his son, who is the one handling the personnel stuffs nowadays) would franchise tag him, as your beloved TT will likely do with Weddle next season. I don't doubt Jerry Jones would be willing to offer him "big ," but his son (Steven) who is actually the puppetmaster at this point, won't let his father commit a large sum of guaranteed money to someone who they can't depend on to not stay out of trouble. The same way the wouldn't commit a large sum of guaranteed money to Rolando McClain this past year to stay out of trouble.
     
  19. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  20. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    From what I have read, the current DE franchise tag value of just above $14.8M is second only to QB. I would consider that to be very big money (in addition to his $11.3M contract for this year). The number should be even slightly greater next year. With Hardy coming off 11 and 15 sack seasons in his last two full seasons, I wouldn't be betting against him.

    Further, the comparison between McClain and Hardy is a really bad one. McClain's issues have been more severe and have resulted in him quitting football and no longer being on two different teams. McClain has been an okay professional football player when he applied himself, but he is clearly a candidate to go "all Gaither" at any given time given his mental issues in the past (as Gaither did in Baltimore and Kansas City before he came to us).

    By contrast, Hardy has been a dominant football player that always wanted to play football. He has had one significant, much overpublicized and over-punished misdemeanor run-in with the law in 5 years. Since you are comparing Hardy to an ILB, a better comparison might be made to Ray Lewis, a clearly excellent football player that had a single significant run-in with the law as a professional.

    This nation's criminal justice system was built on the notion that it is better to let many guilty people go free than it is to falsely imprison one innocent person. A person is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law (and that means a final adjudication). The law has the responsibility of deciding innocence or guilt, not some arrogant a$$ of a reporter or any one of us.

    Hardy is a free man that owes nothing to the reporter or to society. He has the right to say whatever words he wants whether or not any of us agrees with him. It is time to leave him alone and let him play football.
     
  21. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  22. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Man, for years we have always heard that Bradshaw was not exactly the brightest person, but if he actually said the comments attributed to him, he is an absolute idiot.

    In the article it is reported that Bradshaw stated that he is tired of people like Jerry Jones who care more about the success of his team than creating a better society.

    Uh, Terry, when Jerry Jones is acting as the GM of the Cowboys, the success of the team is his job. His job.

    Creating a better society has nothing to do with being the GM of the Cowboys. Any GM that thinks that part of his job is to create a better society and thereby pass on certain players fails do his job properly by wrongfully excluding potential players that may help a team have more success.

    If the player can help the team win, the a GM should get the player if he has an opportunity to do so.

    It is the job of the criminal justice system to punish Hardy for any wrongdoing.

    The two roles are so vastly different that I would think that even someone as mentally challenged as Bradshaw is reported to be would be able to distinguish between the two.

    As for Jones, he is the reigning NFL Executive of the Year and as a businessman has built a net worth that is reported to be well over $4B. In sharp contrast to Bradshaw, Jones' actions/words have demonstrated that he is pretty shrewd in his dealings.

    And since Bradshaw brought it up, when it comes to the off the field issue of creating a better society, Jones has and will continue to donate millions of dollars to a whole host of groups and causes to help improve society. I would say that Jones does plenty to create a better society. He just understands how to do that without failing to do his job as GM of the Cowboys.

    And finally, as for Hardy, yesterday he played a better game for the Cowboys than any defender on our team has played for us this entire season. Brady is going to be very sore today and Hardy is the reason why with 5 QB hits, 2 sacks and one forced fumble.

    Nah, we couldn't use a player like that on our team. It's okay, Telesco. Your regular nap time isn't over yet. You can stay asleep a while longer while the grown-ups take care of real business like signing top players like Hardy. And when you wake up, pat yourself on the back--you managed to get and keep Donald Brown on the team. He played for the Colts. He must be great! Yay Colts! SMH....
     
  23. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Counselor;
    You make a lot of claims in this thread. You state opinions as if they are fact. For example You state the following:
    However Hardy WAS convicted...
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...na-panthers-guilty-2-counts-domestic-violence

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hardy-has-domestic-violence-charges-dismissed

    Isnt it strange that the only reason the guy is not behind bars now is that the accuser mysteriously cant be found? How much did that cost Hardy or his agent? I guess there is a reason why Criminal Lawyer is a redundant term huh?

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article9140591.html
    http://time.com/3329416/greg-hardy-nfl-domestic-violence/

    Your semi-misogynistic posts do not serve you well, nor does your lack of fact checking on your long rants. Further such posts brings to question, especially from a fan base, of which is very familiar with the Manti Te'o Catfish experience, as to whether your interweb persona of Perry Mason is in fact a representation of reality.

    That you further try and make Jerry Jones out to be some sort of saintly philanthropist is another mind boggling turn. Jones charges for everything, including practices. He takes the free ford vehicles his team is donated and raffles them at practices and games for profit. If he donates to charity it is only for a tax break.

    You are welcome to your opinion, but please start doing at least a quick fact check to back up your ridiculous statements... It will help you pretend to be something on the interwebs that you probably are not in real life...

    You are correct in one thing though. No we could not use a scum sucking pig like Hardy on this team. Eff him. If you think being a sports star makes someone able to victimize others and get away with it, then have fools chant their names, buy their jerseys etc. fine, that is your damage. But I doubt you would feel the same if it was you or a family member he victimized.

    Toodles...
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  24. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    1. You are the one misrepresenting the facts. I said "Hardy has no conviction". He does not.

    Do you understand what a trial de novo is? It means a brand new trial with the earlier trial result being vacated. When Hardy filed for a trial de novo he wiped out anything the judge did in the bench trial. It really is that simple. The conviction went "poof" and disappeared.

    It is almost like a rain out in baseball. One team may have been way ahead, but nothing from the game rained out counts.

    2. There are many reasons why Hardy is not behind bars right now.

    First, Hardy has no conviction against him as I said and as you tried to misrepresent.

    Second, the prosecutor dismissed all charges against him. The alleged victim disappeared, but her credibility was damaged when she accepted money from Hardy and the prosecutor knew that. You do see why that is the case, right?

    Third, the alleged victim decided to accept a private settlement rather than risk her credibility at a jury trial. Honestly, this creates a bad appearance in that had she really been about justice and felt that she had a strong case, she could have testified against Hardy and then set up any conviction against Hardy as res judicata (a matter already adjudicated that cannot be revisited) as to any fact necessary to establish the criminal charges upon which there was a conviction with respect to her subsequent civil trial. While there certainly may have been other reasons in play, she took the money and that would have looked bad before a jury.

    Fourth, Hardy is not behind bars right now because the largest sentence ever imposed upon him, even if it had not been wiped out by the seeking of a trial de novo was only 60 days because the charges were mere misdemeanor charges. So unless you are speaking during the 60 day period, there is a very good chance that Hardy would not have been behind bars right now had the case proceeded to a jury trial.

    Fifth, as I have stated before, for a whole host of reasons, you simply cannot assume that the same result would have been achieved at a jury trial. You just can't. There would have been a different trier of fact. The evidence would have come in differently. The evidence itself likely would have been different as both sides would have changed their approach based upon what they observed in the first trial. The defense, in particular, not having the burden of proof, may have held back evidence (since defense counsel knew all along he could get a trial de novo).

    3. It is a fact that Jerry Jones donates millions of dollars to various charities. I never made him out to be saint. I am simply indicating that he is pulling his weight in terms of contributing to society, contrary to the idiotic assertions of Bradshaw. My best guess is that he has given more to charities than anyone posting on this forum has.

    And you seem to be guilty of "Bradshaw logic" as well in that you are apparently incapable of putting together that it is possible for a person to make lots of money (even via sharp business practices) and also give lots of money to charities just as it is possible for a GM to do his job of building a strong roster by employing a player that was once charged with a crime while at the same time bettering society by donating millions of dollars to various causes.

    4. I notice that you didn't even bother to challenge my assertion that Hardy just played a better game yesterday in only one game than any defender on our roster has played all year. That was probably a good choice on your part.

    5. Nothing I have stated may properly construed as "semi-misogynistic" and only someone losing a debate on the merits would stoop to such name calling nonsense.

    6. For the record, I am and have been a California attorney for over 20 years even though I now live in Texas. I was a paralegal/law clerk for one year before law school, during law school and then afterward while pending my bar exam results, so we are talking about roughly a quarter of a century or so of legal experience. I have never suggested that I am some sort of "Perry Mason" and my primary background is not in criminal defense work although I have handled a number of criminal defense cases.

    Further, I do not claim any sort of expertise as to North Carolina law. In fact, all I specifically know about North Carolina criminal procedure comes from what I have read about this Hardy matter.

    However, in California, there are several common settings in which a trial de novo procedure operates with which I do have significant case experience, including, but not limited to nonbinding judicial arbitration and appeals of small claims actions (as an attorney, I generally cannot participate in the underlying small claims action).

    Having had a number of first hand experiences with a trial de novo procedure and having experienced thousands of litigated cases over the course of my career does help me to get a sense of the various possibilities that may or may not exist in a setting such as Hardy's and why the matter and conclusions to be drawn from it may not be as black and white as the knee-jerk snap judgments that you and others seem to want to make.

    Finally, I really do not care if you doubt my background or not. That's your problem. It doesn't change the reality.

    Have a nice day!
     
  25. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    It must be great to think that because you say it is so, it is so. It seems to me that you might just be a catfish.

    Oh and as to your statement that I am saying things because I am losing a debate. I am not debating with you. I am stating what I think, I don't care much as to what you have to 'debate' as at every turn you prove that you have little to say that is worth reading...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  26. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    For goodness sake, I don't believe that I am attorney because I say I am. I believe it because the California State Bar says I am.

    Again, if you want to assume you know more about my background than I do, go ahead. I won't stand in the way of your foolishness, but please don't blame me for laughing at you in the process.
     
  27. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I am lord of the universe... Dont believe me... Believe it because you read it on the interwebs... Laugh at what you wish, because I have been doing that to you since your first 20 paragraph post of pure poop.

    :rolleyes:
     
  28. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    And here's a little more on the concept of trial de novo. This comes from State v. Sparrow, 276 N.C. 499, 507 (1970) in which the court opined with respect to the types of appeals we are discussing, "The judgment appealed from is completely annulled and is not thereafter available for any purpose."

    Further, it should be noted that if North Carolina did not allow original jury trials (brand new trials before a jury), that would be a violation of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which specifically guarantees the right of a criminal defendant to a jury trial.

    Do you now understand that all of those articles you cited mean nothing? There is no conviction. Legally, it was annulled and is unavailable for any purpose.

    Look, I get that my background concerning the trial de novo process and what a trial de novo is likely gives me a huge advantage over you in terms of discussing it, so I don't want to rub this in, but, Conc, you need to back off of your position here. You are just wrong. Legally, there is no conviction here and that has to be the case or else North Carolina is violating Hardy's rights under the U.S. Constitution.

    Therefore, Hardy owes nobody anything. In the eyes of the law, he has done nothing wrong.

    That is why it is asinine for this Brennan person to suggest that Hardy owes some sort of apology and to presume to give him instructions with respect thereto.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2015
  29. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I dont have to back off anything. Hardy did it, was convicted then bought off the victim. Maybe that makes him a great guy in your book, a victim. But hey, he did it. That is what matters to me. SO you can back off, or continue to toute how you want to be just like him when you grow up. I dont care which.
     
  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Is there a way to institute a "time out" on this forum?...... I think one may be required. ;)
     

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