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Cameron Jordan DE Cal

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by RM24, Mar 29, 2011.

  1. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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  2. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    We will need a gift from god for him to last to 18
     
  3. Boltzlover

    Boltzlover BoltTalker

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    Is AJ giving out gifts? :rolleyes:
     
  4. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    You never know man. I didn't think Merriman would last until 15 when we drafted him a few years ago. OR if AJ really wanted him he could trade up. I say stay put and if CJ isn't there, pick JJ Watt from Wisconsin if he's there. One of those 2 guys will fall to us at 18. I think you're right though CJ will most likely go top 15. We have enough picks to move up but that's an AJ call. He would be perfect imo. We need a high motor, high character, great work ethic QB hunter and he fits the bill perfectly.
     
  5. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    yea Cj is the way to go, him or if cam jordan and jj watt are gone i say we trade back in the 1st if not trade out the 1st round and get additional picks
     
  6. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    We have one advantage if we lose out on Watt/Jordan; unless there's a major run on tackles or second tier DEs (Clayborn, Smith, Houston, Ayers?) then we will be in the position right before a number of teams who want tackles (Indy, NYG, Philly) & DEs (Atlanta, Tampa, maybe NO). This could make this a very good position to trade back from, potentially get a second tier or third tier DE (Heyward, Liuget, Wilkerson)
     
  7. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    I just have this hunch that CJ is on AJ's radar. I follow the draft very close esp. for us and I've been right on the 5 of the last 8 years. I must mention I was screaming at the TV during the 2003 Draft for Troy Polamalu. That's when AJ proceeded to trade down when we picked Candyman Davis (yuck) and Cough-syrup Kiel. Obviously AJ didn't pay attention to what Troy did at USC destroying everybody in his path. Oh well. I've looked a several draft boards and mags and I believe CJ will be there for us at 18. But AJ just might move up just to make sure we nab him.

    Then again, I can be totally wrong since he choose Larry English. I was like, "Who the heck?" I was totally thinking AJ would draft Rey Maleuga. Oh well......
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    AJ has never been big on USC guys (Ellison is the only one he's ever selected - or for that matter brought in as a UDFA IIRC) and not until recently (past 2-3 years) been all that high on Pac-10 guys. During the English fiasco I was actually driving through the bottle-neck interchange of freeways in DT LA en route to a wedding and was dancing with joy in the car when Oher was available to us... especially since Clary was currently adding color commentary on the radio and I thought it would just be stellar for him to have to provide commentary on his replacement. Then AJ picked English and I damn near rear-ended the guy in front of me in a fit of rage.

    But Rey wasn't considered the "elite" MLB in that draft class, Laurinaitis was (who was a terrible fit for the 3-4 because he doesn't shed blocks well) and even he was considered "elite" enough to shake the "MLB value doesn't kick in until the 2nd round" stigma. Clay Matthews aside, because very few had him pegged as a mid-1st rounder to that point, there really wasn't all that great of value at positions of need there for us other than Oher. Hood was a reach at #18. Guys like Mack, Maclin, or Nicks would have been nice value but wouldn't have pushed for immediate playing time - or at least wouldn't have been projected to (they probably would have in reality). The kicker for me was that Cleveland was able to trade out of the very next pick with the Bucs who were moving up for Josh Freeman, so it's hard to imagine we couldn't have found a deal to move back to #21 (Tampa's original pick).

    Honestly, in retrospect (aside from Clay or Oher) I would have taken Alex Mack in that position, played him at RG initially and then moved him inside to center when Hardwick's contract expired. It would have been addressing a "need" at a non-premium position with a premium pick while still getting substantial value. Not to mention that Hardwick's stock was still pretty damn high at that point - had he not gotten dinged up in '09 he probably could have been dealt for a tidy recoup given the dearth at center other than Maurkice Pouncey that was available in 2010.
     
  9. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Oh man, if I knew Oher was going to be that good I would have taken him in a heartbeat! Clay Mathews too. But hindsight is 20/20. I know AJ isn't keen in USC guys but I think he is in Cameron Jordans case. AJ doesn't want to reveal all his cards but I got this feeling CJ is at the top of the list. OR it's going to be a guy we didn't even target (like English). This pick has GOT to be right though. I'm giving English 1 more season with more reps (for Conc, haha) and he doesn't show us any improvement I will deem him a bust. Rookies these days have got to contribute fast. NFL does = "Not For Long".....
     
  10. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    Cameron Jordan doesn't go to USC :)
     
  11. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    yea thats what scares me is aj drafting randomly im perfectly fine trading out the first if jj watt or jordan isnt there, theres no one worthy
     
  12. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    I understand the hindsight thing, but damn, most of you guys have clamored for these guys over the years. The Clay Mathews, Palamalu, Oher, Maleuga. I mean if the average joe fan sees it then

    why the heck doesn't AJ ???
     
  13. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who watched college football that year could see that Oher was going to be great. How he lasted as long as he id is beyond me. When we were on the board and Oher was there, i was screaming at my tv for us to take him, unfortunately AJ believed all the crap people said about Oher being slow(mentally) and passed on him for a LB we didnt even need. He could of fixed our OL, and as usual, he choice to ignore the OL AGAIN! Thats the reason i dont even bother watching OL when i watch college football now
     
  14. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    True, but Jordan Cameron (TE) does :lol:
     
  15. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Not to rain too much on your parade but Oher was pretty good at RT then moved to LT and struggled all year long. Yes they made it to the playoffs, yes they did well running etc, lot of people said Oher struggled quite a bit this year. I'm not saying this to defend English, trust me I was in the same boat seeing Oher there and wanting him badly (just ask RTL), but Oher hasn't been all roses. Malaluga had a great first year and then struggled this year too.

    From what i can gather I think AJ's board is: Watt, Jordan, Kerrigan immediately, it's after Kerrigan that I get worried that he'd want to reach on someone like Heyward
     
  16. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    I'll give English one more season with more reps. If he can't get us at least 6-8 sacks then I'll deem him a wasted pick. I'm hoping Cam Jordan falls to us, but you never know. He had a great Senior Bowl showing so that will move him up on many boards. JJ Watt I wouldn't mind either. Give me a high motor, Qb Hunter with a strong work ethic, good character and someone that can remain injury free. I know I'm asking a lot but that's what I would be looking for. I just hope AJ doesn't reach for some unknown guy from some Div II school and go Bobby Beathard on us.....:mad:
     
  17. RipTheJacker

    RipTheJacker Well-Known Member

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    And where do you think we would of played him?
     
  18. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    There are a lot of rumors that Da'Quan Bowers could fall out of the top 10....anyone interested?

    AJ has spent 1st round picks on players coming off far worse injuries than his.
     
  19. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    No thanks
     
  20. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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  21. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    We have plenty of players already that can't stay healthy, we don't need another
     
  22. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I agree, and we'd probably still have to trade up to get him.
     
  23. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Cameron Jordan will be a Charger at 18. You heard it here first. :)
     
  24. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    if we can get D.Bowers i want him. just as if we could get robert quinn
     
  25. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I just have a fundamental problem with spending a top 20 pick on a guy who's only goal is to take up blockers. Save the high picks for tougher positions, with athletes that are harder to find, and who impact the game in a bigger way.

    The big 4 key positions are QB, CB, OT, and pass rushers....stick to them unless you know your set. We're clearly not set at OT and OLBs, and I'm not convinced Cason is more than a moderate backup. (See Bengals game)
     
  26. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    CJ can get to the QB with speed and power, not just take up blockers. We can get a solid OT and DB or whatever we need in the 2nd and 3rd since we have 2 a piece. Pass-rusher in our 3-4 to be opposite Phillips is my top priority (since English hasn't proven he can get to the QB) then right OT. I say stay at 18 and see who falls to us. If an absolute stud Rt OT falls to us get him. But if CJ or JJ Watt are there you can't pass them up. But knowing AJ he might just do that so who knows....:confused:
     
  27. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    UCLA plays a 4-3 defense dude! He's going to reach the QB a hell of a lot more in that system than he will in ours. QB pressure from the 5 tech is either a bonus, or its a guy abandoning his assignment. Which brings me to my next point, we don't even know if Jordan wants to take on double teams for the rest of his carrer. I can tell you from experience D-linemen would rather rush the passer than worry about keeping the LBs clean.
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Jordan doesn't play for UCLA; he plays for Jeff Tedford at Cal- Berkley, who has run a 3-4 well before Clancy Pendergast came to them as their DC. The same can be said for Illinois who started running the 3-4 for the first time under Vic Koenning (former K-State co-DC and also the DC of Troy when Demarcus Ware was a collegian) in 2010. So both Jordan and Liuget have experience actually playing the 5-Technique and in a 3-4 formation (Liuget has actually played the 5-, 3-, 1-, and 0-tech's at UI).

    And you're really going to play the "we don't know if he wants to keep blockers clean" card? The guy wants to play professional football and is likely to do whatever is asked of him by his team and coaches - particularly for the money he's likely to be getting compensated with. Would most linemen rather be collecting sacks than eating blockers and stuffing runners? Um... duh. Same as most corners would rather freelance from the slot and fish for INT's all day long than they would have to actually run with receivers and have to come in to defend the run. But not every player is Albert Haynesworth or Antonio Cromartie who are going to throw themselves a pity party and go rogue if they don't get the detail they want. I can tell you from experience that most football players would rather win - even if it means that they themselves don't see huge statistical accolade - than they would have a great statistical game but still be on the losing end of the scoreboard and the season record.

    Also, looking just at 2009 you're either making stuff up or going purely off of sack totals if your'e saying that English wasn't getting to the QB. He led the team in QB hurries - for as much as we malign AJ for the pick (and yes, I'll continue to give him hell because it was a mondo reach value wise) English - when healthy - can penetrate and defeat his blocker off the snap, he needs work on his finishing ability and that's all technique.

    I think you've got yourself so convinced that we HAVE to get someone opposite Phillips or a RT that you're looking at the other positions' duties as black and white. 3-4 DE's (especially in our system) do more than just "don't give up ground" and "eat blockers". Those are some of the primary duties, but do you know how you "demand double-teams"? You establish yourself as so disruptive as an interior pass-rusher that teams have no choice but to double-up on you for fear that if they don't you're going to collapse the pocket up the middle on them (which is the last thing most teams want unless their QB is named Vick or Rodgers). Look at Brady... even that high-powered Pats offense was turned to milk-toast in the playoff game because the Jets collapsed the middle of the pocket.
     
  29. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    1. Obviously I meant Cal, I have UCLA on the brain after watching Akeem Ayers video. BTW Cal does line Jordan up on the OT's outside shoulder a lot. Even Cameron Heywards lines up inside more often than Jordan, and Heyward plays in a true 4-3.
    2. I'm sure Albert Haynesworth agrees with you, as long as your getting paid you'll play whatever.
    3. Where did you see English lead our team in hurries in 2009? If you can back that stat up I'll keep an open mind about him, but I've never heard or seen that one before.
    4. You wanna collapse the pocket, put Nwagbuo at DE, or the 320lb Martin, both are quick for their size. This lends to my main argument of position scarcity, that 5 techs are easier to find than OTs, OLBs, CBs, even good safeties.

    If we must draft a 3-4 DE at 18 Jordan is the one I could live with, so my criticism of him is somewhat half hearted. Its just hard for me to pallet spending a top 20 pick on a guy I'm not convinced we don't already have in Martin or Ngwabuo. Why not wait to take Heyward, Paea, Ballard, Bailey, or even go big later on with a Jerrell Powe who could eventually move inside as Garay is already over 30 and in a contract year.
     
  30. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Man, it prob won't matter anyway since I've seen a lot of mocks having CJ picked by the Vikings at 12 and even JJ Watt going to New England at 17. Dammit! :mad:
     

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