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Chargers 2013 Training Camp Battles

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    LOL...... you said that Telesco was convinced by one of his scouts that Fluker is a left tackle. That was pure unmitigated BS, and you know it.

    I called you on it, and now you claim that I was just being obnoxious for pointing out your folly. Either grow a thicker skin, or stop posting unfounded crap.
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  4. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    No no no I didn't care about that. It was this post...
    ...that was exceedingly obnoxious.

    BTW it's worth noting (in regards to the first post) that every team has a scout assigned to a player, team, or conference depending on the scope of talent. Telesco didn't go into this draft with only his notes to guide him, scouts will often stand on a table for guys they believe in.
     
  5. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    As opposed to arguing with me about the spelling of a mans name?
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Of course, but if you don't think that Telesco would have 1st hand knowledge of any players that were under consideration as a 1st round pick, then I think you're doing him a disservice.

    You do behave like you're a better talent evaluator than anyone working for the Chargers. I would personally call that presumptuous, if not outright obnoxious.
     
  7. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    That was rather a minor dig...... as I've said before, you're overly sensitive to any perceived criticism.

    But oddly enough, you have no problem criticizing others...... myself included. ;)
     
  8. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Just remember these words when Blewy Kabluey rips on you or anyone else"

    "Snark is the idiots version of wit".
     
  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    That sounded pretty snarky to me. You'll have to remember though, that Matty doesn't have a sense of humor. ;)
     
  10. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Says the king of snark! :p
     
  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I'm not familiar with that tune....... could you hum a few bars?

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    I meant end up the better player before we meet the Texans not right now. It's not clear cut to me that Rinehart will be the better option come week 1. In fact the only thing I can remember being written about him is that he struggled on some plays. That said either of em could make it as starter. I guess I'm hoping Troutman surprises and wins the job.

    Also, like many have said, he could yet beat out Clary too and play RG.
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Anything is possible, but I think you're expecting a lot out of a guy who hasn't played a snap in the NFL. If he develops enough to be a decent backup this year, that would be a nice start.
     
  14. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Michael Gehlken@UTgehlken 3h
    Chargers LT King Dunlap (hip) expected to return to practice soon, possibly today. He's needed. Pass rush all over Rivers on Wednesday.


    Michael Gehlken@UTgehlken 18h
    Manti Te'o will become a poster child for how pre-draft 40 times get overblown. Great instincts. Moves faster on football field.


    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 29 Jul
    Chargers have day off tomorrow after five pretty hard-core days. Among standouts so far: S. Wright, D. Butler, M. Floyd, D. Woodhead.
     
  15. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 1m
    Offensive line, which has been getting largely outplayed recently, just opened nice hole for Ryan Mathews on right side.
     
  16. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    here's a some from a couple days ago which had me excited about

    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 29 Jul
    Shareece Wright continues fantastic camp. Picks off floater from Philip Rivers. Right place, right time.

    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 29 Jul
    Dwight Freeney just ran quickly around Max Starks in a line drill. Difficult to tell exactly how impressed we should be. Nice move, though.


    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 28 Jul
    Don't get carried away, but it's not very often you see someone make a catch & think, "That looked like Antonio Gates." Nice, Ladarius Green


    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 27 Jul
    @CByronBurke: What's the scoop on Keenan Allen a few days in?” >Kid floats through middle of field, gets open.


    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 27 Jul
    Bront Bird just made like a young Shawne Merriman making a move around Ryan Mathews to get to QB in team drills.

    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 29 Jul
    TE John Phillips was brought in primarily to block. But former Cowboy just pulled down a one-handed grab in front of defender.

    And then the not so great tweets

    Michael Gehlken@UTgehlken 26 Jul
    Jeromey Clary is back practicing with starters after running into athletic trainer's room.


    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 27 Jul
    @UTkrasovic: #Chargers WR Vincent Brown (leg) is wearing sweat pants & not practicing this morning.” >Noteworthy, but not concerning (yet).

    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 27 Jul
    @BJanakey: @UTKevinAcee should we worry about Derek cox getting burnt? Or not yet?..” >At this point, keep an eye on it. Not good.


    UTKevinAcee@UTKevinAcee 27 Jul
    Coaches say they're searching for five best guys to start on OL. They won't say it, but so far DJ Fluker is not one of best five.
     
  17. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    So the truth finally comes out....... matilack is actually Matt Williamson. :laugh:

    Potential X factors in AFC West
    By Matt Williamson | ESPN.com

    San Diego: Max Starks, offensive tackle

    The Chargers have a wealth of talented, young offensive skill position players, but their collective talents could be mostly wasted if San Diego’s offensive line doesn’t do a much better job opening holes in the run game (the team averaged a measly 3.6 yards per rush in 2012) and protecting Philip Rivers, who has been under siege the past two seasons. That pressure has influenced Rivers in a very negative way, as he has not been able to set up and throw the deep ball, which has been a staple of the Chargers’ passing game the past few seasons. Rivers also has forced far too many passes that he just shouldn’t have even considered attempting.

    As much as any passer in the league today, Rivers needs a clean pocket -- and, wow, he has not gotten it. He was sacked 49 times last year. It surprised me that the Chargers didn’t do more over the offseason to improve this massive weakness. But they did use the 11th pick overall on D.J. Fluker, a real masher in the run game who reminds me a lot of the Ravens’ Kelechi Osemele. Like Osemele, Fluker could be a great guard, but he was drafted to be San Diego’s right tackle. Starks is competing with King Dunlap for the starting left tackle job. I am not going to tell you Starks, who also has a lot of experience at right tackle, or Dunlap is a great player. In fact, they both have very slow feet and the Chargers’ coaching staff will have to design more quick-hitting pass routes. But I will say that both of these veterans are an upgrade from what San Diego finished the 2012 season with at offensive tackle by a substantial margin.

    If both are at least adequate, the Chargers’ edge pass protection and run blocking overall should be improved from one year ago -- which could allow San Diego’s weaponry to thrive. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if this coaching staff eventually comes to the conclusion that Starks and Dunlap should be the starting tackles, with Fluker moving inside to guard, putting Jeromey Clary on the bench where he belongs. If that is the case, San Diego’s offensive line will be better at three of the five positions than a year ago. That would allow the offense to at least function with some consistency.
     
  18. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  19. Nomad

    Nomad Very Senior Member

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    It wouldn't bother me to have Fluker move to RG. One of the themes before the draft was that if the three top OTs were off the board, drafting a great OG would be a good thing to do. I also wonder how Mike Harris is doing at ROT?
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I guess great minds do think alike...:)
     
  21. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I guess it takes a "great mind" to judge a player as unworthy of playing a position that they haven't even had a chance to play in an actual game....... much less a preseason game.
     
  22. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Maybe so. :coffee: But I guess that's what thousands of people actually do every day for a living, I believe it's called "scouting" or "s'outing", I dunno it could be a soft C. :D
     
  23. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I get saying that you're skeptical about a guy's ability, but to make a hard and fast judgment that a guy can't play the position is something else again. Both you, and this other Matt, seem to be doing the latter.

    What you're both lacking is any empirical evidence to backup your judgment. That's not "scouting", that's pure speculation.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Scouting vs speculation .....I'm interested to hear what you think the difference is.


    (BTW Matt Williamson is a former pro scout, he's doing what scouts are paid to do)
     
  25. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Well, usually scouting is based on seeing a player actually playing at the position in question. That's what scouts do for the most part. Occasionally, they might see a player that they believe might transition to another position in the pros, but for the most part, they evaluate how good a player is at their college position.

    Take Clary..... have you seen him play the guard position before? I would guess the answer is no. You have seen him play right tackle, and have observed his short comings..... mainly his slow feet. But, he has been a starting RT for several years. His lack of foot speed is a disadvantage against speed rushers, but wouldn't be nearly as big an issue if he was inside playing the guard position.

    This is the exact same criticism that you have of Fluker, that he's not quick enough, and would be better suited as a guard. If that applies to Fluker, than why not Clary? And if you're honest, you'd have to admit that Clary wasn't the worst starting RT in the league. He wasn't great, but his stats weren't terrible either (Harris was terrible at LT..... that's what terrible looks like).

    I'm not suggesting that Clary will become a dominant RG in the NFL, but I don't see why he can't become a decent guard. His athletic limitations shouldn't be as big an issue at that position. I'm at least willing to give the guy a chance to prove that he can play the position, before I pass judgment on him.

    *He may be a "former pro scout" for good reason. ;)
     
  26. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Excuse me what!?!?

    1. Are you actually comparing Clary and Fluker in an attempt to bolster Fluker? :eek: If Fluker ends up being the same mediocre/poor RT Clary was for the last 4 years, for the next 4 years, it will be a massive disappointment considering we spent the 11th overall pick on him. The whole point of replacing Clary was to improve the position, not swap like for like.

    2. And it absolutely does apply to Clary, nobody ever suggested it didn't. Problem is our guard position hasn't been a problem given Vasquez and Dielman were holding it down, and in 2012 after Dielman left we had no better RT options like a Starks or Dunlap...so moving him to OG was never really discussed.

    3. I agree completely Clary could be a good RG, for the same exact reasons I believe Fluker could be, their skill sets are very similar.

    And lets be clear here I never said we shouldn't give Fluker a shot at RT, even I have hope that he might be a little better than Clary in pass pro (the devil you don't know right). What I said is ff they want to roll out the best 5 on day 1 they should consider moving him to guard now.
     
  27. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    1. No, I wasn't comparing Fluker to Clary in order to boost Fluker. I don't know what gave you that idea. I was merely pointing out that your criticisms of Fluker applied equally to Clary. Therefore, if Fluker was suited to play guard by your judgment, so was Clary. And yet, you agreed with Williamson when he said that Clary belonged on the bench.

    2. Frankly, until last season, I wouldn't say that Vasquez was "holding it down" at the LG position. His play was very uneven, especially his run blocking. The way I see it, he played his *** off in his contract year, and got paid big bucks because of it. But, lets not pretend he played like that the majority of the time he was here, because he did not.

    3. If you believe Clary could be a good RG, then why are you so eager to be rid of him? You keep saying they should cut him for the cap space. We've seen in the past just how quickly the O-line depth can evaporate.

    4. Well, I'm glad you're willing to give Fluker a shot at RT, considering you already have determined he's just a guard at the NFL level. I'm not surprised that Fluker has looked less than spectacular so far. He's a raw talent, with a lot to learn. Most rookies heads are spinning at this point of training camp. The NFL is not an easy transition from college, and many guys who have talent still struggle their first year. Most people expected great things right away from Ingram, but we never saw it last year. That's not unusual.

    If they truly want to start the "best 5 guys" then they have to give the players enough reps (and exposure in exhibition) to make that determination. Sure, they'd like to make that decision sooner rather than later to give the O-line time to gel, but Fluker's performance may have as much to do with being a rookie, as it does with any perceived shortcomings athletically. It's still rather early in the process.
     
  28. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Can we have a separate thread for the Blue Bolt Matilack spat.... ? ;)
     
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  29. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    After the Thursday opener things should start falling into place. All the kids heads are swimming with information and rubber legs should be over by then too. Alignment from the coaching staff will show up and it will build from there, this might end up being a fun season watching the kittens grow up into mountain lions.
     
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  30. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    1. Oh so you were just defending Clary's chance to start at RG? My determination to see Fluker at RG is because I truly believe he could be top 5 guard, and as I've already stated I'm a Rinehart fan as well....so if someone is going to ride the pine it might as well be Clary.

    2. You're trying to hard to overstate it, Vaz was not elite, but he was never a problem. Plus we spent a 3rd on him people wanted to see it work.

    3. As stated here (link) I said we could keep him as depth or cut him for cap space...either way is fine with me.

    4. I haven't concluded anything, you're just exaggerating my points and getting yourself worked up
     

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