1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Chargers' RFAs, resigning, and compensation

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by WonderSlug, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,747
    Ratings:
    +851
    Two notable Chargers are Restricted Free Agents (RFA) after this season. They are Michael Turner and Shaun Phillips.

    By the CBA, here's the possible tender offers and compensation. The compensation we get depends on how much we offer him (the RFA) in the initial tender offer to obtain First Rights of Refusal on any competing offers.

    http://www.nflpa.org/CBA/CBA_Complete.aspx

    110% of prior year's salary means 110% of his 2006 base salary. Both Phillips' and Turner's 2006 base salary is $385K. 110% of that is $423.5K. So, because the $600K and $800K figures are larger, we use those numbers.

    Therefore, if the Chargers offer the RFA a one-year contract of at least $600K, then they get a first round pick if he signs with another club's offer, after we fail or decide not to match.

    If the Chargers offer the RFA a one-year deal of at least $800K, then they get a first and a third rounder if he signs with another club's offer, after we fail or decide not to match.



    My thinking is that AJ will do everything he can to make sure that both Phillips and Turner return, and tender the $800K offer to each, meaning we get a first and third rounder if either one should leave.

    The beauty of doing the initial $800K one-year tender offer for RFAs Turner and Phillips is two-fold.

    First, AJ knows that by getting the compensation of both a first and a third rounder for Turner or Phillips, only clubs that are really serious about signing them will make a competing offer because they would have to give up those draft picks in addition to signing the player for $25+ million over 4 or 5 years.

    Second, AJ doesn't have to "overspend" on contracts for Turner and Phillips. He can simply sit back and wait for the competing offers to roll in. Any that do, he only needs to match the highest one for each player, and they remain a Charger for 4, 5, or whatever amount of years. In that case, he would truly be paying the player his "fair market value".

    If no offers come in by a predetermined date, AJ can then have them sign the one-year tender of $800K and they can practice and workout with the club while he then begins work on a multi-year deal with their agent(s) by the start of the 2007 season.

    I think there will be more clubs willing to give up a first and a third for Phillips than Turner, so AJ is more likely to have to match offers for Phillips.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    7,031
    Ratings:
    +1,515
    We need to lock up Phillips befor free agency. Matching a competing offer is always a dicey proposition, which Seattle learned this year when they lost Hutch because of the poison pills Minnesota put in the contract.

    As for Turner, I think you give him the high tender and try to work out a deal. RBs don't have the greatest value on the open market, so I think teams will likely be reluctant to part with a first and a third to sign him.
     
  3. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,747
    Ratings:
    +851
    Yeah, although I expect that poison pill to end up fuggin the Vikes in a few years. Guaranteeing a player to be the highest paid at his position in the NFL, just to get him to come to your team, is a very risky move.
     
  4. BFISA

    BFISA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    41,645
    Ratings:
    +2,172
    :tup: That was damn good, Slug, thanx :icon_toast:
     
  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,032
    Ratings:
    +2,880
    Poison pills are for transition tags only
    Franchise and RFAs don't have poison pills because both are fully under the control of the team and its not a matter just of matching contract offers. If any team offers a 'poison pill' contract a'la hutchinson, we'd still get the draft pick at the very least.

    Phillips needs to be given the highest tag possible
    Turner a first round
    I'll mention turner in a rumor i'm hearing on hte podcast tonight
     
  6. Shamrock

    Shamrock New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    11,922
    Ratings:
    +1,243
    NOTE: There have been rumors that the new CBA includes another "tier" in RFA tenders - a new 2nd round compensation level. Until the entire new CBA is posted, we can't say that's for sure, but it is a possibility in how the Bolts handle Turner.

    Phillips will get the high tender (1st and 3rd compensation). Everyone assumes that no one will offer on him, but I don't see that as clear cut. A pass rusher, especially one who has the talent to play in either the 3-4 or 4-3, will be in high demand. If someone does offer on Phillips, the Bolts will want to match - if the "poison pill" doesn't do further damage to the SD salary cap.

    Turner will be tendered at the middle level (1st round compensation) or the new tier (if it truly exists - the 2nd round compensation). AJ will let Turner go if someone offers on him.
     
  7. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,747
    Ratings:
    +851
    I have to update this since I missed section (e) which states:



    So, the $600K and $800K offers in 1993 are increased annually at a percentage no higher than 10%.

    Using Kris Dielman's first round RFA tender offer of $1.55 million that the Chargers gave him (and he signed) earlier in 2006, I calculated that the values increased at an average annual rate equivalent to 7.6 percent.

    $600K * (1.076 ^ 13) = $1.55 million

    So, using the average 7.6 percent annual increase, next year's tender offers are about:

    RFA, FROF, first round draft pick compensation = $1.673 Million

    RFA, FROF, 1st and 3rd draft pick compensation = $2.230 Million
    ($800K * (1.076 ^ 14) )
     
  8. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    14,253
    Ratings:
    +1,879


    It's way to early in the morning to be thinkin bout goes inta's.:bolt: :icon_shrug:
     
  9. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,111
    Ratings:
    +848
    We better lock Phillips up be4 free agency because after the Phillips has had, everybody will be trying to pick him up
     
  10. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,747
    Ratings:
    +851
    Bump, since Turner's in the news again.... :helm1:

    Make sure you read post #7 which updates the tender offer numbers to be as current as I can make them.
     
  11. KimPossible

    KimPossible BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,495
    Ratings:
    +1,054
    Thanks Sluggo...this topic is confusing to me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. reef shark

    reef shark BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Messages:
    937
    Ratings:
    +49
    1.6 seems a little high for turner next year considering his current salary... i dont see smith doing that unless more than a few teams make offers
     
  13. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    There are 4 tenders the Chargers can potentially offer and each tender cooresponds to compensation required to get Turner's ***.

    Max tender (or Chargers offer) is around $2.2 million for one year but we get a 1st and 3rd. and that's if someone signs Turner.

    The next tender is around $1.8 mil and we get a 1st round pick only.

    The next tender is around $1.4 mil and we get a second round pick only.

    The lowest tender is around $900k which gets us a third round pick only as compensation.

    The tender numbers are not exact but real close so heads up.
     
  14. turbo_turtle

    turbo_turtle In Disguise

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,685
    Ratings:
    +890
    :icon_shrug: :icon_huh: So Trumpie would that be the same for Shaun Phillips as well?:icon_shrug: :icon_huh:
     
  15. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,747
    Ratings:
    +851
    Yeah, and the tender that AJ offers Turner will determine his future with us and how much interest AJ feels Turner is getting from other clubs.
     
  16. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    7,025
    Ratings:
    +820
    Yep,

    The difference being that I would bet that the Bolts will tender an offer to Turner to try to elicit the biggest compensation without getting stuck with the tab on a max offer. So you try to tender for the amount that gets someone to go after him. My guess would be a first rounder only.

    As for Phillips, I think the intent would be to lock him up long term. So you need to approach that differently.
     
  17. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    Both are in the exact same boat (restricted free agents).

    This means they can only bargain with the Chargers and other NFL teams would need to surrender draft picks depending on how much jack we throw (tenders).
     
  18. turbo_turtle

    turbo_turtle In Disguise

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,685
    Ratings:
    +890
    Thank you very much. I am not confused any more about our Tender offerings.:tup:

    I hope for both Phillips and Turner that AJ locks them up for the long term. They are too important to this team without them here as a Bolt.
     
  19. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    I hate to say it but Turner will not get locked up long term as long as LT is here. Turner commands a starters pay and will not get that jack here.

    Phillips will be someone we can go after long term because Godfrey is talking retirement and Edwards will be the fuc outta here in 2007 (too expensive and now too old).

    For the rest of the fans wondering about this this stuff works just ask.

    Basically, it takes a player 4 years of playing time to achieve free agency or the ability to say bye bye to a team.

    The only recourse is for a team to tag him or sign him long term or just say buh-bye after a players 4th year.
     
  20. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
  21. turbo_turtle

    turbo_turtle In Disguise

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,685
    Ratings:
    +890
    I sure hope that AJ locks up Phillips for a hell of a long time because the 2 Shawnes click together.

    Again I hope that Turner if he is no longer a bolt after this year that AJ puts the max Tender tag on him so that we can get the 1st and 3rd round Draft picks from that team which wants Turner that bad.

    The Bolts would kick A$$ in the Draft next year. To build on the future of this Great team that we have now.
     
  22. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    I would like to see the max tender as well but if we offered something slightly less to get a 1st rounder, someone may just bite.

    Then we have two first round draft picks in 2007 to bundle and trade up or trade down etc etc etc.
     
  23. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    I want a big fast right guard and right tackle and nose tackle and another defensive tackle and strong safety worth a fuc in coverage from the draft.

    I want me some big fat boys who can haul asss !!!!
     
  24. reef shark

    reef shark BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Messages:
    937
    Ratings:
    +49

    this sounds like dallas in '92...
     
  25. turbo_turtle

    turbo_turtle In Disguise

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,685
    Ratings:
    +890
    All I have to say is that:

    AJ is GOD. Butler is looking from Heaven at the success of AJ and smiling down upon him with joy.
     
  26. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    Trenches.

    We will always be competitive and in the upper echelon if we love fat boys who can haul freaking *** !!!

    The dudes with the defensive front 7's from hell can have **** for a secondary and can still be nightmares defensively.

    The war is won or lost right here - trenches. :bolt2:
     
  27. foober

    foober BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,980
    Ratings:
    +200
    is it possible to tender both turner and phillips that teams would have to give us 1st rounders for them. Cause. There are players in this draft that could replace phillips. Good year for d-end/olb's. Loosing turner and garnering a 1st rounder also has possibilities. I believe we have like two or three running backs on the team now that could be our backups. Turners really good and hard to replace. But by next year RIvers and our young wr's should be even better which should take up any slack if need be. Getting yet another 1st rounder one could only imagane what A.j. could come up with. Doubt it will happen. But if it did it wouldn't be all that bad.
     
  28. tboltzcali

    tboltzcali Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,065
    Ratings:
    +108
    We would be stupid to let Phillips and Turner to go, more Phillips. They both are pieces to this championship team and we need both here next year.
     
  29. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    YES!!!!

    There are 4 tender levels

    Top tender nets a 1st and 3rd.
    Next tender nets a 1st
    Next tender nets a 2nd
    Next tender nets a 3rd

    Pay ranges are roughly from $900k to $2.2 million.
     
  30. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    Consider a scenario where we would have THREE 1st round draft picks if indeed someone wanted Turner and Phillips bad enough.

    Dude - THREE 1st round draft picks !!!!!!!

    Given our scouting staff, I would go for it in a heartbeat.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page