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Chargers sign Ronnie Brown

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by matilack, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Per Schefter, Acee, and Ghelkin
     
  2. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Apparently RM is not as good to go for 3 downs as we were led to believe.
     
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  3. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Or Brinkley isn't as good as so many seem to think he is. We should have signed Hightower when we had the chance. We do need two backs, as much as I like RM he hasn't had a 300 carry season yet.
     
  4. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Or, we shouldn't have blown a first rounder on a RB. It's moot, as the team is what it is. How did Brown look last season, is he going to be a contributor in his own right or just someone to get tackled while Mathews needs a breather?
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    That's a stretch....... how do we know Brown will even make the final roster?

    Unless he was brought here to run the Wildcat offense. ;)
     
  6. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because only teams without a bona fide 3 down have veteran backups. Your statement is complete nonsense.
     
  7. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yes, blowing a pick on a back that produced 1500 yards from scrimmage and 4.9 yards per carry in his 2nd season. What a waste. You really need to work on some new material. This constant whining about Mathews is getting old.

    As for the "wasted pick," go back and look at the 2010 first round. Very few picks have had the impact of Mathews.
     
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  8. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    To say a pick is wasted on a productive player is silly....... we agree on that. Perhaps, Mathews hasn't been the second coming of LT, but he's still learning and growing as a player. I see nothing about him that says he was another AJ mistake.
     
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  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Chargers sign Brown for depth at RB
    Written by Kevin Acee

    For all their talk about loving the young players they had at the position, the Chargers kept looking for a veteran running back.

    On Friday, they came to terms on a one-year deal with Ronnie Brown. The former first-round pick is projected to be a third-down specialist and emergency fill-in behind Ryan Mathews and Le'Ron McClain.

    "It's another guy who's a playmaker," Norv Turner said. "It's another guy who's experienced. He obviously gives us competition, gives us a guy who's been very good in the third-down, two-minute type situations. I'm anxious to get Ronnie in here and get to work."

    Brown was the second overall pick in 2005 and ran for 1,978 yards in his first two seasons. While he is 30 years old, Brown has always been part of a two-back system and has carried more than 200 times just once since 2006. He ran 42 times for 136 and a touchdown in 2011 with the Philadelphia Eagles. He finished the 2007 and '09 seasons on injured reserve.

    Turner said he expects Brown to report for the team's final week of OTAs on Monday.

    Brown's ability to catch passes and block make him an ideal fill-in on third down. It is expected that McClain, the starting fullback, will be the No.2 ballcarrier. But Brown will have an opportunity to earn more carries and will be available in the case of injury.

    The signing creates a more urgent roster competition for the final backfield spot between Curtis Brinkley, seventh-round pick Edwin Baker and undrafted rookie Michael Hayes.

    The Chargers now have 91 players, one over the roster limit. They have an abundance of safeties and linebackers, and it is likely safety Nick Polk will be released after Corey Lynch was signed last week.
     
  10. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Brown is veteran depth. If one of the young RBs really impresses, he might not even make the final roster. To see his signing as some kind of indictment of Mathews is just ridiculous.
     
  11. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Anyone that expected RM to be LT was expecting too much. LT was a once-a-generation player.
     
  12. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    I for one like this signing, brown has always been and overlooked underrated tough runner. Anyone who watched him vs us should remember that.
     
  13. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    My thoughts on drafting Mathews have nothing to do with his performance, and everything to do with the cost to replace that performance, relative to the opportunity cost of selecting him.

    It's obviously too late to be concerned about that, however, as the pick was made 2 years ago. What does concern me, is whether or not our 12th overall pick feature back is going to be taking snaps in the red zone and on 3rd down. I don't miss Marty at all, however I do miss one aspect of that era, which was the renaming of the red zone as the "Gold Zone" because we always scored down there. It would be nice if we could combine a healthy Gates with an effective Mathews (working as an everydown back) inside the 20 to get our TD to opportunity ratio back up.
     
  14. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I don't believe I whine about Mathews at all, for that matter, I hardly ever speak about him. The pick being "wasted" has nothing to do with the performance of Mathews. It has to do with his position and the opportunity cost of selecting him versus the cost to replace his production.

    Trading up to draft Mathews was the equivalent of having a date with a beautiful, intelligent, sexy, offensively rich girl who is wildly enamored with you and blowing her off to go jerk it to internet porn. Maybe it's the most amazing internet porn you've ever seen, but it's still just internet porn.
     
  15. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I like it if he A) makes the team and B) has a positive impact on our w/l record.
     
  16. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    One good thing about Brown is that he's always been in a tandem, so he should have some tread left. When he's been healthy, he's averaged around 200 touches a season. He may be 30, but he's not an old 30.
     
  17. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    What a ridiculous analogy. It makes absolutely no sense. Look at the players at other positions beside RB drafted in the first round of the 2010 draft. Which of those players would have been more valuable on this team than Mathews has been? Who would be the comparable rich girl you speak of? Not many. You are clearly one of those guys who thinks drafting a RB in the first round is never warranted. That's just stupid. Drafting a crappier player at a position seen as more valuable would not have made this team better.
     
  18. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    He specializes in ridiculous analogies...... hadn't you noticed? ;)
     
  19. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and he talks about replacing Mathews level of production cheaply, which makes no sense. When you look at the other RBs in the league who had more than 100 yards per game from scrimmage last year, most of them (Bush, Ray Rice, Jones-Drew, Lesean McCoy, Jahvid Best, Darren McFadden) were 1st or 2nd round picks. Of the top backs to sign extensions recently, Aarian Foster got 30 million guaranteed and Lesean McCoy signed a 5 year, 45 million dollar contract. So I don't see how we could replace Mathews production "cheaply." The notion that top NFL running backs can be had at any round in the draft is false and mostly based on a few low level picks who have thrived. It would be like saying top QBs are not highly valued because Brady was a late round pick.
     
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  20. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Both Foster and Brady are the exceptions to the rule. Usually, the best athletes are apparent before the draft, and they are taken off the board quickly. Just because the Chargers have found a few guys like Gates and Floyd as UDFA's doesn't mean that's a common occurrence.
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I don't much care for his analogy but you're missing his point.

    Replacing the production of a single player doesn't have to come from a single player and to just to that conclusion is flatly naive. Like it or not, RBBC is becoming a gargantuan trend in this league. Guys like Isaac Redman, Michael Bush, Ryan Grant, Pierre Thomas, Ahmad Bradshaw, and BenJarvus Green-Ellis have all been productive runners for their teams (teams who all have won or been to Super Bowls in recent years) when given the lion's share of carries. And every one of them was selected no higher than the 4th round.

    What people get caught up in (and it's not just fans, it's front offices too) is having "an elite" RB. It's nice and all, but in the modern league having an elite runner isn't the necessity (not even close) that it was even 7 years ago.
     
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  22. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I agree it's not a "necessity."

    But it's a damned good thing!

    p.s. I LOVE this signing (and I'm not one of the RCCB fanboys...yet)
     
  23. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Well, one obvious thing you're overlooking is that there aren't that many "elite" RBs in the league at any given time.

    Teams use RBBC out of necessity, more than preference. If everybody had an elite RB on their team, they wouldn't be so quick to take carries away from him, now would they?
     
  24. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Dang! That makes total sense! Who are you, and what the Hell have you done with Blue?!?
     
  25. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Occasionally, LBC gets a little too big for his britches. ;)
     
  26. Cheapseats

    Cheapseats Loud, proud Charger fan

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    Personally, I like the signing...Brown is a veteran running back who I believe still has some gas in the tank. The team probably got him for a bargain rate (in NFL terms anyway) and if he secures a roster spot after training camp he can help Mathews mature and give him a breather during games...or fill in if he is nicked up.
     
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  27. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Of course, all the guys you are referring to have been to SBs because they've had elite QBs to help them get there. I don't see it as an either/or proposition. You can have an elite QB and an elite RB. That makes an offense even more dangerous. How many more rings would Tom Brady have if he had a back like Mathews, a legitimate big play threat, to hand the ball off to and throw to, instead of castoffs like Green-Ellis? The lack of a running game, is a big reason why the Pats lost the two SBs to the Giants. Because the Giants pass rushers did not have to respect the run, they were able to pin their ears back and harass Brady.

    If you look at the top rushing attacks in the league, you'll find that most of them have a legit top 10 back--Foster, Ray Rice, Jones-Drew, McFadden, Adrian Peterson, LeSean McCoy. This is not a coincidence. And it's not just about 4 yards and a cloud of dust or matching production over a season. It's about big play potential and forcing teams to respect a home run talent.
    RBBC is fine, but having two quality RBs is not as good as having a superstar back and a quality backup.

    I don't see what's naive about what I said. Ike seems to think that no matter how good Mathews performs, the money and picks invested in him could not be justified. That's just stupid.
     
  28. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
  29. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    It's not simply a matter of necesity versus preference, it's also a cost equation. Paying 100 million for a RB over a 7 year contract (Chris Johnson, AP) is crippling to your team. Paying 50 million over 5 to a RB is also crippling to your team, when you can have 3 guys on your team for virtually nothing and get similar production. Do you lose the home run threat? Maybe, if you don't have decent receiving options. Mathews hasn't been much of a home run threat himself, seeing as his career long is a 39 yd run.

    People are talking with breathless elation about all of the players we were able to acquire because we didn't pay VJ. Not paying insert name of elite running back has the same effect, except if the cap dollars are invested in the O-line, you might actually see an improvement in your rushing production.

    Thanks to LBC for saving me the trouble of having to make my rather obvious point last night while I was asleep :-D
     
  30. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    The Patriots lost the game because Gronkowski was injured and Wes Welker dropped a pass.

    In terms of what? If you look at the top rushing attacks in the league, you'll find the following:
    The top 16 rushing attacks in the league featured 11 teams which were 8-8 or worse, and 6 playoff teams. The 16 worst rushing attacks in the league featured 8 teams with 8-8 or worse records, and obviously 6 playoff teams.

    The top 6 RBs in the league (Forte, Peterson, Johnson, MJD, Rice and Foster) combined for a total of 47 wins (8, 3, 9, 5, 12, 10), or 7.8 wins on average. Having "Elite Running Back" doesn't appear to get you over .500 on average. By the way, the teams with the 6 worst rushing totals include the Superbowl winners, the winningest team in the regular season, and a Detroit team which made the playoffs for the first time in forever, and a total of 51 wins, or 8.5 wins per team.

    Clearly neither "Elite Rushing Attack" nor "Elite Running Back" have a direct correlation to wins or playoff success. Since winning is the objective, I should think that for something to be "not as good" as something else with regards to football, it would have to correlate to wins and losses.

    The cost of Mathews in 2010 was the 28th and 40th overall. Assuming the Chargers simply selected at the positions they had and did not trade back for future picks, they could have had 2 of the following players: Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes, Toby Gerhart, Lamarr Houston. Alternatively, they could have had one of them and traded for future picks or traded down and acquired additional picks (Ed Dickson, Tony Moeaki, Jimmy Graham, and Eric Decker were all acquired in the 3rd).

    Mathews current cost to the team isn't about his cap dollars, it's about what we could have gotten instead of him, i.e., his opportunity cost. Considering that having him on the roster doesn't allow us to reduce the number of RBs we carry, we would likely be better off having 2 of the above players and "some guy" than we are with Mathews.

    Referring to an earlier post of yours referencing Brady, the two situations are not comparable. The current game requires quality QB play to be successful, and the production of an elite QB cannot be replaced with a collection of average QBs, whereas the production of an elite RB can be replaced with a collection of lesser backs.

    The difference between the two situations is one of a quality QB slipping through the cracks to the sixth round, although he should've been drafted 1st overall, and the effective production potential of a 1st round RB being replaceable with a lower round pick and/or UDFAs.

    I like RM. I think he's a fantastic RB, and I root for him to be extremely successful, because he is the direction the team he has decided to go in. His success and the quality of his play don't change the fact that his production could be readily replaced, and that we paid too much to acquire him in terms of the O.C. to our team.
     
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