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Chip Kelley kicked to the curb

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  2. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  3. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    And the last thing he said to me -- "Rock," he said - "sometime, when the team is up against it -- and the breaks are beating the boys -- tell them to go out there with all they got and win just one for the 'Chipper'..."

    Guess the Chip Kelly story wouldn't have this happy of an ending...
     
  4. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well, when you have complete control over team personnel, then trade away a bunch of good players for marginal talent and end up with a losing record, you're out.

    What's the chance that Murray is still on the team next season? Any coach worth their weight in spit should know that he doesn't fit in their offense.

    And NO, I don't want him here to replace McCoy.
     
  5. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    A perfect replacement for the Chargers
     
  6. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    All the more reason to build your team around your Players. Wasn't that what McCoy was suppose to be good at (tebow, Orton, 2013 Rivers)
     
  7. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    McCoy did build an offensive system around the players' strengths, which was a radical departure from Norv's inability to make those very adjustments. That's why the team made the playoffs with arguably the worst defense in the league (which is what it became after Telesco gutted it) in 2013.

    Unfortunately, Telesco caused the overall level of talent to become so thinned that we are now at a point where it does not matter what system is in place as we do not have enough talent to win on a consistent basis regardless of what system is in place.

    We are a bottom 5 team in the NFL in terms of both overall record and overall talent. The talent has gone away through good players leaving, draft picks wasted on bad trade ups, no trade backs to secure extra draft picks, bad draft picks, players that were once good declining in terms of quality of performance, bad re-signings and bad free agent signings.

    Telesco is actually very much like Kelly in that he caused good players to leave and replaced them with lesser players causing his team's performance to decline.

    Unfortunately, Spanos is probably not like Lurie in that instead of firing the incompetent Telesco, he has actually given him an extension.
     
  8. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    LOL at fans not wanting Chip Kelly.

    He'd be one of the best hires for this team, he failed as a GM not a HC. He has stated the next job he takes, he does not want the GM duties.
     
  9. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    He would be a horrible fit for our team as presently constituted, possibly the single worst candidate of any legitimate HC candidate.

    Kelly likes to run a fast paced offense with a mobile QB. Rivers is just about as opposite of a QB as there could be for Kelly's system.

    Also, we run a ball control system to take pressure off of our defense, which is on the smallish side and tends to wilt when the other team possesses the ball and pounds on the defense over the course of a game.

    Kelly's system has been repeatedly criticized for putting additional pressure on its defense by allowing opposing offenses to possess the ball due to the offense being on and off the field so quickly. Again, that is the exact opposite of what fits our player personnel.

    Finally, we do not need yet another blind squirrel when it comes to having input regarding which players to re-sign, which players to let walk, which players to draft, and which players to bring in as free agents. We already know that Telesco and Kelly are blind squirrels when it comes to assembling talent on a roster.

    Tennessee can go ahead and hire him since they already have Mariota and Mariota is used to Kelly's system. That's where Kelly appears to be a fit.
     
  10. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Nick Foles, Sam Bradford, Mark Sanchez and Matt Barkley are mobile huh? Lol.

    When Foles came into the fold in 2013, he went 8-2 with Nick Foles. I repeat Nick Foles. That year, Foles broke records. Having the best TD-INT ratio since Tom Brady's 2010 season, and had the 3rd highest QBR in NFL history.

    Kelly sent 9 players to the Pro Bowl his first year in charge, put up some crazy numbers on offense. Although I agree, the defensive side of the ball was the issue for the Eagles, however this year despite what the team statistics say, the Eagles had a solid defense despite their injuries. They're a bend but don't break bunch, and they've forced a number of turnovers.

    Not to mention, Kelly's 'sportscience' bunch have made the Eagles the healthiest team in each of the past 3 seasons. Another reason why Kelly should be considered here in San Diego since we have such a problem of players staying healthy.

    Rivers has had success running the no huddle in Whisenhunt's days, when somebody competent was running the offense. I'd love to see what Kelly and Rivers could do together.

    Once again, Kelly failed as GM, not a coach.
     
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  11. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Chip Kelly is a good coach
    He's a horrible GM
     
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  12. Andres M188

    Andres M188 BoltTalker

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    It is very obvious that McCoy should not be in control of this team and it is very embarrassing that Kelly got fired before McCoy. That just goes to show that our ownership has no clue as to what to do in ANY situation.
     
  13. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Holy cow! Why the hell do you think Kelly was almost willing to trade away the entire team to get Mariota?! It was because he never had the ideal QB for his system. That was the whole point of that exercise. Bradford was his plan B and a stupid plan B at that.

    I think you are missing what I am saying. I am not saying that Kelly cannot coach football at all.

    To be sure, I think he is nothing special. Winning 10 games with 9 Pro Bowlers on the roster is not exactly a great accomplishment. Even Norv Turner won football games when he had a "loaded" (to borrow from Rex Ryan) roster. And having McCoy, Jackson, Maclin, Sproles and a Pro Bowl OT and OG (Peters and Mathis) does make for a pretty loaded offensive unit.

    But I do not think he is totally out of his depth if he his coaching a team that fits his system, which ours does not.

    The most baffling part of your post is that you appear not to recognize just how obviously terrible of a fit Kelly would be for the Chargers. Where are the quick/fast offensive players to take advantage of the effects on a defense of a quick paced offense? Where is the mobile QB? Where is a defense that can withstand being on the field all day long without getting beaten into submission?

    On offense, a huge problem that we have is that our skill position players are very unathletic as a group by NFL positional standards. Gordon is not like a McCoy or Sproles. He is more like Murray--a bigger back that does not fit the system. And our receivers just might be the slowest group in the NFL. It is the speed/explosiveness to get past/by tired defenders that makes Kelly's system go. Again, that is everything dead opposite of what we have.

    Our defense tends to wear down now with our offense trying to play ball control. Could you imagine what would happen to it if we played hurry up offense the whole game? The half of the defense not carted off with injuries in the first half would be gassed by the middle of the third quarter.

    The defense lacks the stoutness to withstand prolonged punishment. That's why running/ball control teams kick our a$$ virtually every time we play them.

    Kelly=Bad idea for the Chargers. It is that simple.
     
  14. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    And that's your flawed opinion.

    Give me one very, very reputable source (not ESPN, NFLN reporters) linking Kelly to the speculation of trading his 'entire team' for Mariota before/during the draft. It's the laziest rumor I've seen, just like he's apparently next in line to take the Titans job.

    Kelly took over a 4-12 team, posted back to back 10-6 seasons with Mike Vick, Nick Foles and Mark Sanchez as his QBs. Again, your making a lazy assessment of Kelly and the type of QB he needs to have. He's had top 10 offenses his 3 years in the NFL without that mobile QB, so I do not know why you keep referring to his college days.

    Kelly will mold this team to fit his style. He will add the nuances, like playing at a fast pace, no huddle, etc. Once again, Kelly failed as a GM, not a HC.

    You could not be anymore wrong about what Chip Kelly's system is, but it's ok it was a decent shot at me.
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I think he answered your question when he asserted that Kelly is a failed GM.
     
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    He interprets things how he likes to make himself feel like what he is saying is right.
     
  17. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Mobility of the QB isn't a necessity in Chip's preferred scheme. Contrary to what people want to believe, his system is based upon three reads, making the correct decision, and doing so quick (i.e. getting the ball out quickly). The read-option was a wrinkle thrown in starting at New Hampshire and continuing on to Oregon because it simplified the number of post-snap reads required of younger, less-developed QB's. The reason Mariota was more successful than any other QB in that system is because, as he's shown in the NFL thus far, he was more developed on his path to becoming a pocket-passer than the likes of Dennis Dixon (who wasn't shabby in his own right, just had a relatively average arm), Jeremiah Masoli, or Darron Thomas.

    Aside from the mobility, Kelly's scheme actually fits Rivers incredibly well and stresses a lot of the same principals that were resultant in the renaissance Rivers had under Whisenhunt.

    Chip's issue and where I have concerns about his fit with this team, is that he's in that Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban mold where he expects respect to be given to him rather than earned. It's a very college coach like mentality that's easier to institute when you're working with 18-22 year olds and not grown men with families, generally larger egos, who may or may not have worked out what it means to be a consummate professional (and unfortunately, unless you're Bill Belichick who can scowl and hold up a hand full of rings as a means of saying, "B-- please!" you need to be able to deal with both types to succeed as a HC in the NFL). In that respect, he's considerably better suited to the college game than the pro one. Pete Carroll was somewhat the same way in his first stint in the NFL and managed to come back, after learning how to adapt. Chip just might not be there yet.
     
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  18. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    My point was that Kelly was very interested in acquiring Mariota because the other QBs that he had did not fit his system. That point is correct.

    However, I misspoke when I said that the big trade offer was with the Titans. Evidently, the Titans essentially shut Kelly down in the trade discussions so he tried to trade above them with the Bucs for the #1 overall pick because he was so desperate to get Mariota, which only further demonstrates my point that he didn't think he had the QB he wanted.

    Mike Florio reported that he offered TB their first round pick in the 2015 draft (#20), their first round pick in the 2016 draft, Sam Bradford and another unnamed player to try to get Mariota.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...fer-to-bucs-says-he-didnt-get-far-with-titans

    So, it's your position that Kelly just felt like trading up and giving up multiple first round draft picks that could have helped his team elsewhere because he thought he didn't need a different QB. Got it.

    Sorry, you're wrong and are equally ill-informed about Chip Kelly's system, which is as plain as day when you contrast the way the offense operated with Vick at QB versus how it operated with Foles at QB. Kelly didn't want Foles because he had to shrink the offense with Foles. That's why he traded him to STL.

    Bradford and Sanchez were capable of running more of the offense, but they weren't ideal either. That's why he tried to trade for Mariota using Bradford as trade bait.

    He downplayed the trade talk afterward once he knew that he would be stuck with Bradford as his QB.
     
  19. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Uh, no.

    All of the zone read plays go out the window with Rivers just as they did with Foles and to a large degree with Bradford. That does not fit Rivers "incredibly well".

    It also completely ignores why Kelly was willing to go (ultimately unsuccessfully) to such great lengths to try to acquire Mariota.

    Further, as I have already noted, a fast paced offense would be the kiss of death for our already impaired defense. It already wears down with our offense trying to implement a ball control philosophy. More possessions, shorter possessions and more defensive plays for the defense is not the answer.

    And we lack the kind of playmakers that PHI has had in Kelly's two more successful years.

    Basically, regardless of what anyone thinks about Kelly as a coach, his system will not work with our group of turds. All of the reasons why it ever succeeded to any degree in Philadelphia are completely absent with our team.
     
  20. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I am not suggesting that Kelly was smart to make the trade attempts that he made, just that he himself perceived there to be a need for his own system at the QB position, which is obvious by how much he offered to try to get Mariota.
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    What's your point? It's not a staple of the scheme. Honestly, did you even read what was written or just quote it and regurgitate your position.

    If you'd care to go back to what I actually wrote, I wasn't defending a hire of Kelly. However, your understanding of the underlying premises of his scheme is misguided at best and, more accurately, poor. But then what do I know, I've only devoutly followed Oregon since the early 90's before he even got there. Or maybe you'd prefer I refer you to a member on these boards who works on the Oregon training staff, has interacted with and discussed scheme with both the team's players and coaches? But then, even he clearly wouldn't know nearly as much as you do, right?
     
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  22. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Yes, I read your post and disagreed with it. That was why I made the response to it that I did.

    You seem to think that because Kelly introduced read option concepts at New Hampshire and then incorporated those concepts during his 6 years at Oregon (2 years as OC and 4 years as HC), assuming your representation of the same is true, that those concepts are somehow not part of his playbook. I disagree with that characterization.

    The point is that that "wrinkle", as you characterize it, was in his playbook when he got hired by the Eagles. It was a significant part of what college football and NFL followers refer to when they discuss "his system", regardless of when it came to be in his system.

    Sure, any coach can cut down the playbook and avoid plays that don't fit the talent that he has. Even Norv Turner stopped calling 7 step drops in 2012 when our OL couldn't pass protect long enough to keep Rivers upright long enough to plant on the 7th step.

    That doesn't somehow mean that those plays are not a part of what the coach really wants to do in his system. It just means that he doesn't have the right players to do what he wants to do.

    Similarly, with Kelly, he wanted a mobile QB. And my proof of that is that the guy nearly crapped himself trying to trade up for Mariota, offering two first round picks, a starting NFL QB and another (unnamed) player as trade consideration. In today's reduced consideration for trade ups world that you have already acknowledged in prior discussions with me, that is a sh*tload of consideration to try to get Mariota.

    So why was he willing to give so much to get Mariota? I believe the answer to that is that he knows from prior experience that Mariota fits his system and that he wouldn't have to cut down the playbook if he had Mariota as opposed to Foles, Bradford or Sanchez.

    A mobile QB works best for his system because it allows him to use the read option plays in his playbook, which increases the potential effectiveness of his running game.

    Rivers is a not a mobile QB and therefore does not fit "incredibly well" what most people using common sense identify as the elements of Chip Kelly's system, which most definitely includes read option plays.

    I know Kelly himself has downplayed that aspect of his system, but that was done when he knew what he didn't have at the QB position. Obviously, just like he downplayed what was offered in trade to get Mariota, he is going to avoid saying things that would tend to put a scarlet letter on the jersey of the players with which he is stuck.

    But just look at the guy's actions--two first round picks, Bradford and another player to get Mariota. Nah, he didn't really want a mobile QB for his system. SMH....
     

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