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Chris Johnson Remains Unsigned

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Chaincrusher, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    My belief continues to be that we need two primary ball carriers. Woodhead is a 3rd down back and Oliver is an emergency reserve caliber option. D. Brown should not be on an NFL roster.

    It seems like we could cut D. Brown, spread his dead money over this year and next (about $1.083M in each year) and use the money we would save to pay most of what it would likely take to land Chris Johnson.

    That would give us Gordon and Johnson to back him up, a nice 1-2 punch with some real breakaway potential.

    Johnson will turn 30 early in the season, but I think he's still got some tread left on his tires (especially if used as Gordon's backup).

    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Bye bye credibility *waves*
     
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  4. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Is LT still unsigned?....... he used to be pretty good. ;)
     
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  5. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    The reality is that we are short one primary ball carrier right now. That's what happens when your idiot GM fails to re-sign a starting caliber RB that could have been signed for next to nothing and could have been used in the same reserve role as he will be with PHI. PHI gets it. Telesco doesn't.

    Maybe someday, somebody in our team's front office will comprehend the concept of quality depth.

    But we drafted Gordon! We drafted Gordon!

    And if he gets injured?! Yeah, that's what I thought. Maybe that might be a reason to care.

    But Gordon won't get injured! Yeah, and Ingram wasn't going to get injured in 2013 either after Telesco emptied the cupboard at OLB by refusing to re-sign Barnes and Phillips. Quality depth, the concept is so simple and yet so elusive for our team's GM to grasp.

    Anyway, I am not sure what is more shocking to me among the following:

    1) that some of you guys don't get the need for quality depth at the RB position;
    2) that some of you guys don't understand what a clusterf*ck of a move it was not to re-sign Mathews; or
    3) that some of you guys don't realize that Johnson is better right now than any RB on our team not named Gordon.

    So, you guys wouldn't trade D. Brown for Chris Johnson for the same money? If you wouldn't, please go back to sleep. I didn't mean to wake you.
     
  6. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    sleep.jpg
     
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  7. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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  8. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    What has Johnson done in the last half decade to prove he's starting caliber?
     
  9. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I guess the four 1K+ seasons in the last 5 years do not prove anything. SMH. SMH some more.

    When his role got reduced last year with the Jets (which is the only reason he did not have yet another 1K+ season), he performed well, averaging 4.3 yards per carry. He finished 25th in total rushing yards last year and was in the top 20 in yards per carry.

    Of course, my suggestion was to have him back up Gordon as the second primary ball carrier, so he wouldn't even be starting. He more than proved last year with the Jets that he can handle over 150 carries and he probably wouldn't get close to that many as the backup to Gordon--probably more like 100 even if we run the ball as much as Reich wants us to run the ball (a lot, that is).

    Johnson, having a pulse, is ten times as good as D. Brown and could probably be signed for about the same price as D. Brown, maybe even less.

    Frankly, Johnson is much better than Oliver and Woodhead as a runner as well. Further, Johnson is probably every bit as good as Woodhead as a receiver out of the backfield (five 40+ reception seasons). He's just never had a QB as good as Rivers to throw to him. Moreover, Johnson is actually younger than Woodhead (but there are no "why not sign LT" responses in reference to Woodhead--I know, I know, that pesky logic at work again).
     
  10. Bonzi Jones

    Bonzi Jones BoltTalker

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    1000% agree with you Chain... Now waiting on the remaining reasons why this is a bad idea... please proceed..
     
  11. Bonzi Jones

    Bonzi Jones BoltTalker

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    What has D. Brown done in the last half decade to prove he's starting caliber?

    Since we were comparing the two, I just thought I would fix that for you.
     
  12. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Everyone knows that it's not 2009 anymore, so no one is thinking they'd be getting
    that Chris Johnson. That said, Johnson bounced back from his only weak season
    (2013, re. both ypc and fumbles), with 4.3 ypc and only 1 fumble...
    would I welcome a guy like that as a back-up for Gordon? Absolutely.

    That he could show a flash or two of his '09 brilliance, is merely a nice bonus.
    I suspect that CJ's big talk before 2010 and failure to live up to the hype,
    has led many fans to assume he's been a bum since then...which is just not true.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
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  13. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    EXCEPT...Donald Brown ISN'T the starting RB for the Chargers.
     
  14. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    I never made that comparison. I'm saying he's unbelievably average and hasn't shown any big play ability whatsoever for several years.
     
  15. Norval_Eugene_Turner

    Norval_Eugene_Turner BoltTalker

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    I'll take the gamble on Gordon as our new franchise running back. Matthews was good (not great) when healthy or benched for fumbling. He wasn't the answer, and we saw FIVE seasons of it. There is a reason why he's a backup in Philly. I wish him luck, but he was just back luck here.

    I want to see what the new kid can do. I'm happy with our current RB situation - much more than last year. We'll miss Gates for the 1st four games, and we've probably pissed off Weddle and others, BUT I'm still excited to see what our team can do. We have the talent to win it all. Sometimes you need luck as well. May this year bring it ALL together. Go Chargers.
     
  16. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Do you get that not one person posting in this thread has suggested that Johnson would or should start for us?

    We are talking bout Johnson as Gordon's backup, the #2 RB.

    And you have completely missed GMing 101 if you do not realize that how you build a better roster is to take your crappiest player at a position and replace him with the best player out there that you can find that plays that position that you can reasonably sign within the salary cap constraints.

    Here, our worst and our most expensive RB on the roster is D. Brown. He's the one that is going to get cut. Nobody is saying we should cut Gordon (duh).

    The cut will slide Oliver down the depth chart to the #3 RB and the #3 third down back, which would make him the emergency option at both positions. Johnson would take over as the #2 RB for both positions--he would go in if either Gordon (#1 RB) or Woodhead (#1 third down RB) got injured or needed a rest.

    I think Johnson is at least as good as Woodhead as a receiving RB, but I would rather make sure that he is fresh for about half a dozen carries a game, so I would keep Woodhead, who works well with Rivers, as the main third down RB. By subbing for both, Johnson would get just enough game action to keep himself from becoming a malcontent for us over his lack of playing time.

    The net result is that we would purge a liability at RB that also has a bad contract from our roster and we would hugely upgrade at the #2 RB, the third down RB and the emergency RB positions. That's why it is a good move.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  17. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    We don't have the talent to win it all. That is an utterly absurd statement. If we win it all, it will not be because our talent is on par with that of about 15-18 more talented teams. It will be because our limited talent did just enough in certain areas to overcome our overall lack of talent and probably because we got some help at times from opponents and otherwise were fortunate (lack of injuries, opponent injuries, a helpful call here or there, our schedule ends up being more favorable than anticipated, et cetera).

    We lack depth at RB. We lack a starting WR that poses a deep threat, allowing defenses to sit on (play close to the line of scrimmage versus) our offense. Our HOF in waiting TE is in decline and his backup is unproven. Our RT is not good at RT and our front office refuses to get a good RT so that the square peg in a round hole RT that we currently have can move to the square hole at RG.

    We have jack squat in terms of run defense and have a real chance to be the worst run defense in the NFL this year as we have been getting worse, not better at that position for three years in a row. We have no proven pass rush and zip, zero nada proven quality depth beyond our starters at the edge rusher position.

    There is at least as much that has been allowed either to remain broken or that has been broken by our current GM as there is right with the team and most of what is right with the team was inherited from the prior GM.

    Why would anyone choose D. Brown over Mathews when one could have Mathews for less money for the next two years than what D. Brown is making? Why would anyone choose D. Brown over Johnson assuming that Johnson could be signed for D. Brown type money or less?

    Mathews was the answer when he was healthy. We saw that over and over again over five seasons. He also was not that injured. Even putting up a 6 burger in terms of games played in his final season, the guy still averaged 12 games played per season and only played fewer than 12 games in any one season in his final season.

    If you would like a player comparison at a different position, try Brandon Flowers. Flowers has only played all 16 games once in a 7 season career, but he is usually good for 13-15 games. Mathews was usually good for 12-14 games (at a much more physically demanding position) and played 16 games once as well. Nobody has expressed injury concerns over Brandon Flowers. The misrepresentation of Mathews' health issues and disconnect in logic is astounding.

    And the fumble nonsense has been so overstated that it amounts to grasping at straws. Like a lot of young RBs, including LT, when Mathews first came into the league, a ball security weakness in his game was exposed and he fixed it. His fumble numbers were not an issue over the past several seasons he played for us.

    Even if you think that Mathews was not all that great and you felt that a RB upgrade was needed, what imbecile (other than Telesco) keeps D. Brown over Mathews when Mathews structured his contract such that he will actually have a smaller cap number than D. Brown for the next two seasons?!

    Frankly, Mathews is so cheap, that we could have cut D. Brown, drafted Gordon, kept Mathews and signed Johnson which would have given us the best RB group in the NFL. But, in line with the Telesco motto of why be great when you can be mediocre, we let Mathews walk, kept the Colt reject, D. Brown, and have done nothing to build quality depth at RB when the need and ability to improve there is obvious.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  18. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Okay, you should be making that comparison.

    Think of it as being like qualifying for the Indy 500 (perhaps in honor of our present GM who is from Indy). We all agree that D. Brown is the player that is on the bubble, right? He is the worst RB on the team (other than some scrub UDFAs that will not make the team and are, therefore, a non-factor in the discussion) and he carries the highest salary/cap hit among all of our RBs.

    So, if you assume that Johnson can be added for D. Brown type money or less, the simple question that remains is "is Johnson better than D. Brown?". If he is, then the team is made better by adding Johnson and cutting D. Brown.

    As to your assessment of Johnson being nothing better than average over the past 5 years, first of all, I disagree. Every time that Johnson has received adequate carries, he has rushed for over 1,000 yards. He is also a very good receiving RB. And he has the ability to take one touch to the house at any given time.

    As Lance19 stated, nobody is suggesting that he is CJ2K at this point in his carrier, but he represents a gigantic upgrade over D. Brown.

    And he would be a significant upgrade over D. Brown even if he were only average as you contend. D. Brown is well below average.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  19. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Thank you for understanding perfectly what the situation is.
     
  20. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    The person I responded to said :

    "What has D. Brown done in the last half decade to prove he's starting caliber?"

    I responded that he WASN'T the starter. If you pulled your head out of your a$$ for less than a second, you'd have seen that. Learn to read, comprehend and please, don't have any kids. Our health care system couldn't handle it.
     
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  21. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your insight Norval & welcome to the forum!
     
  22. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Man, that is awesome. You suggested that I have reading comprehension issues when your posts show that you completely missed what both Bonzi Jones and I were/are saying.

    Let me give you a gentle nudge in the right direction.

    Bonzi was not suggesting that D. Brown was or should be the starter. And...nobody is suggesting that Chris Johnson should be the starter for us. The concept of being the starter has nothing to do with the points that either Bonzi (if I understood his post correctly) and I are making.

    Therefore, your post has nothing to do with what is being said.

    To give you a different example of what is happening here with your responses, it is as if during the middle of a discussion about which of two cats, Cat A and Cat B, can catch mice better, you respond, with emphasis I might add, that Cat A has never had fluffy fur.

    And then, when the discussion about mouse catching continues and someone tries to tell you that the discussion is about mouse catching and not whether or not Cat A is fluffy, you call that person an idiot and emphasize that you said that Cat A has never had fluffy fur.

    So, to make it very simple for you, everyone here is saying that Gordon should be the starter. Thus, nobody is saying that Johnson should be the starter.

    Rather, this discussion is about adding Johnson as a reserve. In deciding whether or not Johnson would make the team better, we need to look at which RB we would cut to make room for Johnson. In doing so, we arrive at D. Brown because he is our worst RB and he also happens to be our most expensive RB (worst combination possible for roster security). I do not think anyone is taking the position that D. Brown is better than Gordon, Woodhead or Oliver.

    Thus, in answering the question of whether or not to add Johnson, we are looking at a comparison between D. Brown and Johnson. That's the comparison that Bonzi and I are looking at (Cat A and Cat B).

    In making that comparison, my view is that Johnson is the better player by far. So, if we can add him for D. Brown money or less, signing Johnson and cutting D. Brown seems like a move worth considering because we make the team better by adding a stronger player at a given position and cutting a weaker one at that same position (GMing 101).

    Welcome to the discussion.
     
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  23. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    You're still not there. You can keep trying, but you'll never get it.
     
  24. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Dear Lord (in whom I don't believe) please cast some divine inspiration and intervention onto a team, any friggin team, to sign CJ so that we won't have to deal with the concept: Any :poop: > Donald Brown. While at it, please also remove DB from our Roster. Amen!

    Signed,

    Blitzy aka rented Chargers fan probably for only one more year! :whistling:
     
  25. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    Aww come on now, D Brown is so greater than a fudge pudding :)
     
  26. Bonzi Jones

    Bonzi Jones BoltTalker

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    Since you have a tad bit of comprehension problem to what I was saying as Chain clearly stated, here goes. Brundlefly asked what has CJ2K done in the past 5 years to be starting quality??

    Chain responded by saying..."Oh nothing but put up 4 1K yard seasons. He then followed that up by saying the he would be the #2 back so he isnt even being considered as the starting back but depth to get Donald Brown off the roster who he is "10X better than".

    I then said that I agree 1000% with Chain and followed it up by saying if you "Brundlefly" are questioning the worth of CJ2K by what he has done in the past 5 years, how about you question what Donald Brown has done in the past 5 years.

    That's when Lance said that CJ2K isnt what he was (we all know that), but on an average day he is still better than our depth at running back and from time to time shows flashes of being that homerun hitter and he would welcome him open arms as Gordon's backup.

    So Carls and Brundlefly, You may not have made a direct comparison of CJ2K and Donald Brown, but when the conversation is about adding CJ2K to be your #2 back to replace your #4 back (D. Brown) it is an indirect comparison when you connect the dots.
     
  27. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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  28. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    1) Just because somebody doesn't agree with your chocie for a signing doesn't necessarily mean they disagree that it is a position of need
    2) They offered Matthews, sadly in the real world it takes two parties to agree to a contract and Mathews didn't agree to their offer. Quit making it sound like they just didn't give a ****.
    3) If Johnson was currently as good as you claim you wouldn't be able to post a thread in here titled "Chris Johnson Remains Unsigned" in the middle of July.
     
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  29. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    To e fair, the thread starter isn't expecting Johnson to be the starter either.
     
  30. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I feel like I'm beating a dead horse every time someone accuses Mathews of still being a fumbler.

    Screw it, he's in Philly now. I'll save that for the Eagles fans.
     
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