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Coaching

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Savage Lizard, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    I really get frustrated with the "Norv doesn't have them prepared" and "Norv doesn't have them motivated" stuff. I think those are the things people like to throw out there because there is really no way to disprove those statements.

    I can listen to "bad playcalling" arguments, because a coach really does have a lot to do with that. Or the coach having a bad game plan or strategies.

    But blaming player miscues on the coaches is pretty silly. Do some of you really feel that there isn't enough emphasis placed on ball security and taking care of one's assignments? Really? I would imagine that stuff is stressed daily. Do you really think the players have not been shown the proper techniques?

    I have coached soccer for most of my life at many levels. OBVIOUSLY, that is not the same sport, or anywhere near the same level. BUT, anyone who has ever coached anything has experienced the frustration of telling players things over, and over, and over again, showing them the proper techniques, working on it at practice over and over, only to have them blow it at some point during a game, or do something they know they shouldn't have done.

    Bad play is usually on the players, unless a coach is just incompetent. Bad schemes are on the coach.
     
  2. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Well when Rodney Harrison and Tony Dungy basically say that this team isn't prepared and it is on Norv, I would say they do know what they are talking about
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    The one glaring and egregious item I can lay at Norv's feet was the final fumble. Not that it happened, but that the Chargers stopped playing. Playuers seemed to see Rivers motioning forward pass and STOPPED!

    YOU PLAY TO THE WHISTLE! YOU PLAY UNTIL THE REFEREES STOP THE PLAY!

    That one is solidly on Norv IMO. It is fixable.
     
  4. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Not prepared how? Did the Raiders use some special strategy that Norv should have prepared them for? Or did the players just not do the job that they were paid to do and coached to do? I'm not at Chargers Park, so I don't know. But it's pretty presumptuous for outsiders to make proclamations like that. The Chargers have practices all week, they watch films, have meetings. I'm sure they do a lot of preparation, but ultimately people have to get sh*t done. As much as I don't completely agree with LEU's views on A.J., maybe this team isn't as good as the talking heads always say they are. Maybe it is the players.

    Coaching is always the easy excuse.

    I didn't see the comments you speak of, but who the hell is Tony Dungy to be talking about anyone? How has he achieved this mythic status? He had a lot of good teams that did great in the regular season, but didn't win it all. Then he finally did win one, good for him. But if he's such an expert on preparation, why didn't he win 3 or 4 championships with all of those good Tampa and Indy teams? Rodney rarely misses an opportunity to take a shot at the Chargers, so no surprise there.
     
  5. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    You don't think it has ever been brought up that players not stop? You think Norv missed the boat on that one?
     
  6. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Because either of them work for the Chargers and are in the locker room?
     
  7. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    No, but clearly it needs to be reinforced. You disagree?
     
  8. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    I don't know, I don't hang out at practice. But that's a pretty basic thing, I'm guessing that gets stressed at all practices for all teams all the time. I can't imagine Norv is sitting there thinking "oh sh*t! I forgot to stress that they should play to the whistle."
     
  9. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The coach is reponsible for more than just play calling. His job is also to have his team ready and motivated to play. That doesn't mean he has to be a rah rah guy, but his team has to step on the field ready to play each and every week. The have to know what to do in certain circumstances, which obviously Applewhite had no idea since he did the wrong thing twice.

    I will take a guy who coached in the league for around 15 years and a soon to be hall of fame safeties, opinion as to what they see over any person on this board.
     
  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I think that is one thing that needs to be stressed. Parcells always says you have to pay attention to the small things. This is one of those. You dont have to agree, but the players have to play to the whistle. No if, ands or buts about it IMO.
     
  11. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Absolutely, I'm not making any claims that I know more than Tony Dungy.

    But it seems like the easy thing for anyone on a board, or a TV show to say. What if Norv had them the most prepared they could possible ever be, but they still f*cked it up? I just feel that ultimately it comes down to the players. If the players look completely lost on the field, then yes, perhaps the coach didn't have them prepared. But yesterday I saw a lot more bad execution than people looking lost.
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I agree with you here. I just found it odd that you cited them as some kind of bottom line proof when they have about as much information as we do regarding Norv's preparation of the team.

    I'll concede their opinions are worth more but they still don't have much relevant information to base their opinions on.
     
  13. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    I am not disagreeing that they should play to the whistle, I am disagreeing that it is necessarily Norv's fault. And don't get me wrong, I am not a huge Norv guy, I just get tired of him being the easy target. The highly paid, professional players got beat.
     
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    While I agree that Norv is often made the easy target I think you're picking the wrong battle here.

    Getting the team prepared and making sure they're disciplined is definitely one of the head coach's huge responsibilities.

    He may not be directly responsible for them not playing to the whistle but that is still a reflection on how he prepares the team for gametime.

    And when an entire group of people are fouling up on fundamentals you're forced to point the finger at those in charge of leading them.
     
  15. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I hated the Norv hire but I think he has done a damn fine job since coming here. However, I think he needs to get focused on the basics. That I do think is Norv. Like I said, it is fixable, but they need to fix it IMO.

    I was very frustrated when the players all stopped and the Raiders ran it back. You can tell, right? :lol:
     
  16. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Do any of us work in Washington? So Does that mean we don't know what is wrong there?
     
  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    It means we don't have all the information necessary to make a completely valid argument. The only thing we can say with certainty is that something is wrong and make educated guesses as to what's causing the problems based on our limited information.

    That was a good analogy, actually. Thanks.
     
  18. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Then the blame goes on AJ for bringing in a bunch of idiots. It is either that the players are screw up and AJ is to blame since he brought them in, or they are great players who are unprepared.
     
  19. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    You are right. But when the same thing happens year after year after year, it starts becoming obvious that it is not longer just a coincidence. None of us know the extent of the problems, but we all know that when a organization as a whole is screwing up, then the leadership of that organization is to blame. It isn't just one player, it isn't just once or twice that it has happened. It has been bone headed screw ups by a ton of players over several years.

    If our Military keeps losing battles, yet we are told they are the best military force on earth, there is probably something wrong outside of the troops themselves. Either they are not being trained properly, they are not armed enough, or the plan they are executing is a poor plan.
     
  20. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    By the way, I just watched the final fumble again. Did anyone else notice that McMichael was in perfect position to fall on the ball. But he tried to pick it up and make a play, which is what gave the Raiders a shot at it?

    Once again, that is a Chargers player allowing the turnover rather than doing what fundamentals say is the right thing to do.

     
  21. LightEmUp

    LightEmUp Banned Banned

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    I still cant believe we lost to the Raiders. Didnt think we were this bad.

    A little more shocking is that people are clueless as to how this happened.
     
  22. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Just experience, which is a lot. Both know generally what happens in a locker room, and what signs point to players vs coaching
     
  23. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'd also say Rodney's opinion is a bit biased because of his history with Chargers management.

    Granted Dungy saying the same thing kinda negates that.

    I'm nitpicking here, though, so whatever.
     
  24. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    We all do it. lol

    Trust me, I know Norv isn't as bad as I say he is. But I still don't think he is good. That is my way of nitpicking
     
  25. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    I didn't notice it during the game, but yeah just fall on it dude.
     
  26. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I didn't either
     
  27. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Despite being a devout Christian, Dungy is also a very devout disciple of Marty Schottenheimer (his mentor). You really needn't look any further than during the early offseason when he is always the first to toss his old coach's name out there as to who "could turn this team around" (not referring to us as "this team" but he has made the reference to several of the recent bottom feeding teams, most recent was the Bills prior to the Nix/Gailey hires).

    I will say this. For those calling for Crosby's head, who exactly would you place in there mid-season to replace him? Promote one of the offending ST coach's assistants who, quite likely, would run/coach in the same mold as he had been shown by his predecessor? Or are there really that many quality ST coaches just sitting around on their couches eating Dunkin Donuts and waiting by the phone for a call back up to "the show"?

    Cottrell's canning isn't really an apt example to cite her either (not that anyone here has yet, but given time I'm sure such would have been inevitable). Cottrell was handpicked by AJ (he would have been our HC if AJ could have swung it, I'd wager), Rivera was the contingency plan (For once Norv did something right, there.), and as it turned out a much-needed contingency plan. We have no such in place for Crosby.

    It's frustrating. Hell... I was hammered and I was still frustrated watching the game yesterday. And as aggravating as it is to have to endure, knee-jerk reactions seldom work, and this organization has very little history of such knee-jerks (so don't expect it to happen unless we miss the playoffs, and even then there might be excuses made and bandaids dressed). At this point, we've pretty much got to dance with the date that brung us... and that's Norv and that's Steve Crosby.
     
  28. SDKCFAN

    SDKCFAN BoltTalker

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  29. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    That'd probably happen either way.
     
  30. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    I thought it already was a sellout (Pats game)?

    And yes there will be a ton of NE fans there.
     

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