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Corey Liuget "Legit"?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by RM24, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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  2. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Im not surprised we didnt go after Jordan, my big knock on him was he was about 15-20 lbs shy of a good starting NFL career weight. Also I like my 3-4 DEs in the 298 lb range. Jordan could never have gotten there without losing any speed he could have had.
     
  3. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I just don't like the fit.
     
  4. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    Dunno I like the idea of a very thick Dline. I like to see him help free up the OLBs to crack the edges.
     
  5. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    He can play multiple positions at the D Line and I've heard mostly positive reviews of him. I think this might be a real solid pick. Then again I might be forcing myself to like him like I did with English....
     
  6. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I did the same with English, I convinced myself his high motor and character made him a solid (albeit not great) addition....turns out my initial reaction was dead on.
     
  7. Alpenbolt

    Alpenbolt BoltTalker

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    Love this pick. Getting thicker on the ends can only help. Would love to hear the "You can't run" chant come back legitimately.
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    He also has a better punch, better first step and strength over English.
     
  9. Alpenbolt

    Alpenbolt BoltTalker

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    He does seem to like to tackle hgh though.
     
  10. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    From ESPN

    1 = Exceptional2 = Above average3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal

    Overall Football Traits
    Production 2 2008: (11/2) 26 total tackles, 5 TFL, 1.5 sacks, 1 PBU, 1 FF, 2 FR. 2009: (12/4) 36 total tackles, 8 TFL, 2.5 sacks, 3 PBUs, 1 FF, 1 FR. 2010: (13/13) 63 total tackles, 12.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks, 3 PBUs.
    Height-Weight-Speed 2 Possesses adequate-to-good height, is thickly-built and has great closing burst for the position.
    Durability 2 Missed three quarters of 2009 Penn State game with an ankle injury.
    Intangibles 2 Has matured and become much more serious about his conditioning and training this past year. Wants to be great and is starting to pay the price. Has a bit of a 'one-year wonder' tag but we think best football is still ahead of him.

    Defensive Tackle Specific Traits
    Versus the Run 1 Quick off the ball. Consistently gets in good position. Is strong and powerful. Stays low, stacks and sheds as quickly as any DT in this class. Great awareness, keeps head on a swivel and is quick to locate the ball. Gets down the line quickly and takes great angles for a DT. Closes quickly and is a heavy hitter. Excellent open-field tackler for the position.
    Pass Rush Skills 2 Lacks elite athleticism but is quick, powerful and instinctive. Sniffs out the screen play consistently. Gets hands up to affect passing windows when he doesn't get to the quarterback. Can consistently stand up OL and drive them back into the QB. Has excellent closing burst. Non-stop motor. Relentless in pursuit.
    Quickness (hands/feet) 2 Is quick and plays with great balance. Not an elite penetrator but has good first-step quickness and excellent lateral agility for his size. He displays violent and incredibly quick hands. Knows how to use his hands and gets off of blocks in a hurry.
    Toughness/Motor 1 Better motor than most DTs. Will pursue backside and make plays from behind. Stays with play even when double-teamed as a pass rusher. Will keep his head up and gets hands up in passing windows.
     
  11. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    First round: Corey Liuget DE/DT Illinois
    I said both on the podcast and in my draft picks that I thought the Chargers would be in a position where they didn’t have to move to pick up a great defensive tackle. I thought that teams would overdraft, especially in the top 13, quarterbacks out of desperation. I’m proud to see I was right, though my fingernails would attest to the fact I was nervous with the last three picks. With the 18th pick on the board and with Cameron Jordan on the board, I thought it was a slam dunk. AJ Smith on the other hand threw us all a curveball and selected a guy I had researched but disregarded on the grounds that he would be gone by this point. In fact I forgot he was even on the board until the Chargers selected him. Ranked as the third best defensive tackle in the draft, he was seen as being more consistent then Nick Fairley and giving more effort then Nick Fairley and Marcell Dareus do.
    Liuget is a great combination of quickness and strength who was a top notch penetrator for the fighting Illini. He has a very strong punch and uses his hands extremely well to break away from offensive linemen quickly, though he’s also very effective as a bull rusher. He’s a very good tackler who routinely lays people out and never gives up on plays no matter where the ball goes. His motor, his nastiness and his penetration ability are his calling cards which made him an outstanding under tackle, but a solid fit as a defensive end. The few negatives that have been said about him is that he needs some more time in the weight room, specifically on his lower body, and needs to find a comfortable weight to play at (he played very effectively at under 300 but rose above that before the draft). In addition he needs to remember to stay low consistently.
    This is a curve ball thrown by AJ Smith but not at all to the level of a Sammy Davis/Buster Davis/Larry English. Liuget was ranked very high on all draft boards coming in and was considered to be a potential 3-4 Defensive end. He has very few negative qualities and a great deal of positive ones. He shows the potential to be a good 3-4 while also sliding inside on nickel passing downs with Luis Castillo. While many, myself included for now, wonder how he was ranked higher than Cameron Jordan, it’s clear AJ went for the player ranked on many boards higher then Jordan who could be better than the guy we all wanted. I would just say to Charger fans upset about not getting Jordan to read the reports, to look at the tape, and realize that this isn’t a massive reach but the selection of a good player who was ranked higher on the GM’s board.
     
  12. CraziFuzzy

    CraziFuzzy BoltTalker

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    I like it. We had an obvious lacking of beef on the line last year. Never did retain that 'wall' feeling of the past. A 3-4 doesn't work if you fill it completely with the 'fast & skilled' variety. You've gotta have the beef up front, and the skills behind. I like legit over jordan all day long.
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Some people had him very highly rated......

    One veteran NFC scout believes Illinois DT Corey Liuget will be drafted much higher than anyone expects, labeling him the second-best defensive tackle behind Marcel Dareus.

    "He's as good as Gerald McCoy but for some reason he's not getting the same exposure," said the scout. "He's not far off from where Tommie Harris was with the Bears when he was healthy. Liuget is maybe stronger. This player is for real." Liuget's stock has skyrocketed since he was given a third-round grade by the draft advisory board. He has a legit chance to be a top-15 pick. Apr 7, 2:51 PM
     
  14. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I hope AJ Smith is right this time. We're talking about a guy who played his entire college carrer mainley in the 4-3, his body type and playing style fit the 4-3, and now he has to make a transition where he's asked NOT to blow boy O-linemen anymore but to take up blockers and keep LBs clean. I hope he's up to it, because Larry English hasn't been.

    That said, I did love him as a player.
     
  15. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    :icon_beerbang: for BEEF
     
  16. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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  17. TheLash

    TheLash Well-Known Member

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    I mostly think it's a nice change that we didn't trade away any of next years picks to move up to get him. ;)
     
  18. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    According to some NFL analysts, he lost about 20-25 lbs just before the draft. Sounds like putting on weight isn't a problem with this guy, as long as he doesn't go all Tony Fonoti on the Chargers...
     
  19. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    It looks like he was adding/subtracting because he wasn't sure where he was going or what he was doing. Now he can be at just under 300 which is what he was at his best last season at Illinois
     
  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I'm going on record. While I don't expect him to get a ton of sacks early on in his career, aside from coverage sacks (but I'm not sure our secondary is up to snuff on providing those just yet)... I demand that Tolbert teach him to Hammer-Dance so that Liuget can sack dance to this song on the PA.
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Or that... and I'm still pinching myself over this to believe it's actually true...

    we actually have not just A but MULTIPLE 2nd round picks going into the 2nd round for the first time since we drafted Hester. This is... awe-inspiring.
     
  22. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    *in b4 AJ trades one away to move up in the 2nd*

    ;)
     
  23. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    If it nabbed Justin Houston I wouldn't be opposed to it to be honest. Heck... if it netted Brooks Reed and returned a 4th or 5th round pick I'm fine with it. With the 2010 Free Agency rules likely in effect (meaning we have Clary under a one-year RFA tender), I have trouble envisioning a scenario where AJ spends either 2nd on a RT... so if he's going to wait until the 3rd for that need, I'd just as soon we get another impact player for the defense. And if that means trading both 2nd's then go for it.

    I just don't want him trading any more blasted future picks.
     
  24. Enormo

    Enormo BoltTalker

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    I was never an English fan. Thought it was a questionable pick from the start. An edge rusher needs to show great athleticism. English's highlight film was the one of the most boring and lackluster I'd seen from a high pick at that position. He didn't really force plays to happen. It was almost like he was extrordinarily lucky and happened to be in the right place at the right time. High motor = couldn't get to the QB on his first try.

    I don't think we can evaluate Liuget in the same way.

    This guy doesn't need to produce eye-poping highlights. And if he expects to do that in this system he's going to be disapointed and ask for a trade in 3 years. This guy needs to beat the **** out of offensive linemen on every down and get off on it. In the trenches his size, high motor, and nasty streak matters.

    Seems like quality beef and a reasonable value. We'll see.
     
  25. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    You mean "Fat-noti" right? :lol:
     
  26. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    I think when he's introduced at the Q, they break out "Too Legit to Quit". That would be sick right there! I'm a DJ so I love dramatic entrances. :)
     
  27. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    For those considering the size issue too... I double-checked number this morning (as well as past scouting reports) and Liuget actually compares quite favorably to Ziggy Hood. Both were looked at as dividing the experts as to whether they could transition to the 3-4 (mostly because many thought that the value was better to a 4-3 team to take the player 5 picks or so earlier). They are nearly identical in size (including height, weight, arm length, hand size, and build - where if anything Liuget has more developed upper legs). And both had many of the same listed strengths and weaknesses as prospects.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    There's a side-by-side (similar pose and stripped down to shorts and Under Armor) photo comparison; Liuget on the left, Hood on the right.
     
  28. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I'd also suggest looking at some tape online at youtube of his games.

    What stands out the most for me is his motor and his relentlessness - he does not stop for anything and routinely when the play was well away from him, he'd still end up in the camera getting involved. I haven't seen much of a quick first step but I guess I don't have a good eye for that as its on all his reports. He shows a good range of moves, looks fairly powerful but I don't see much of a mixture in his moves or hand placement. He definitely can take on multiple blockers and splits them fairly regularly. So far I've got no major complaints on him but still will wonder if Jordan wouldn't have been better
     
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    You don't see it because it's not there. He has a very average first step, but he makes up for it with 1st and 2nd punch - in fact, the fact that he lacks great first step and still manages to knock his man back consistently is a testament to how violent his hands are.

    I stand by what I said to Matilack last night - I think Jordan may well be the all-around better player, but Liuget may - long-term - be the better fit. You also have to consider that most of the "experts" had Jordan ranked higher as a 3-4 DE than Watt, and yet Wade (who most of us around here put on a pedestal as a DC) passed on Jordan for JJ. A number of 3-4 teams passed on him - including Belichick who we know from experience (Seymour/Warren) values high quality 5-Techniques when he sees them. There really may not be as much parity talent-wise between Jordan and Liuget as many of us thought - it was just easy to project Jordan by a wide margin because he was coming out of a collegiate 3-4 (or at least with more collegiate 3-4 experience than Liuget had) and it's fairly easy to get lost in the jumble of how many quality defensive line players were carrying 1st round grades.
     

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