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Damontre Moore?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Chaincrusher, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    The Giants just cut OLB/DE Damontre Moore after he got into a ridiculous dispute over free headphones with a teammate (which followed other issues he had had with the team).

    The guy has proven to be a bit of a knucklehead for sure and his measurables at the 2013 Combine were pretty pathetic, but he did produce in college and did manage 5.5 sacks last year and had 3 this year before being cut.

    He could be more trouble than he is worth, but I think he could also be a decent reserve player for us if we were to sign him. Also, he may grow up some with the passage of time.

    Since it isn't as if we have any sort of great OLB depth, I would be in favor of us giving this kid a look. I think he is at least worthy of an NFL roster spot and would easily be better than some of the trash we are carrying on the roster. His salary this year was only about $585K, so I think we could get him on the cheap.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Just going back over my own notes from when he was a prospect, unless we're running a 4-3 or sending him out strictly in nickel and dime packages, he's pretty much worthless in space. His college production came largely off of playing that Joker/Wide-9 spot on A&M's defense that didn't require him to bend much or even really run an arc. So much of his hype came off of playing opposite Von Miller and then being the "successor" to Miller at A&M, but their tape was night & day different - where Miller's plus speed and athleticism was apparent.

    Frankly with a coaching staff that looks like it's on its way out, the fact that he's a knucklehead (Cullen Jenkins is a raging **** too, and I'm not excusing what he did, but I highly doubt Moore approached him in a manner such as, "Excuse me, sir. I believe that extra set of headphones you took actually have my number on them. Would you be so kind as to hand them over to me?") likely invites an element of discord into the locker room that isn't worth the very marginal improvement he might provide over what we've currently got (basically we're talking over Cordarro Law at this point, who at least is more athletic, more versatile, and plays special teams - I'll own up to having not watched New York's ST's as closely to know if or how often Moore is deployed in that unit, but his skill set doesn't really lend itself there).
     
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  3. ZapCannon

    ZapCannon Active Member

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    thats some interesting points, i wouldnt mind a spicy linebacking core!
     
  4. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    This team is not in a position to take on head cases yet...
     
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  5. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    When Damontre Moore leads the league in sacks next year because somebody clears him off waivers tomorrow Chain's going to say "I told you so!" and then proceeding with is Telesco rant and how much he sucks for not being a smart as him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
  6. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I don't think Moore is going to lead the league in sacks. I just think he is better than some of the players we currently have. Right now, he is probable better than all of our OLBs other than Ingram and Attaochu. If I had to guess, I would say he probably is better right now than Emanuel will be in two years, but I think that could be close. He is better than T. Williams or Law, who are fringe roster players at best.

    So I am only looking at Moore as a reserve. Nobody is projecting him to be the next Khalil Mack. We are just talking about making the roster better today than it was yesterday, which is a good approach for a team to take.
     
  7. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    How do you know he can make the transition to a 3-4 so smoothly? He's a predominate 4-3 defensive end, so I don't know how he can be a better player if he doesn't fit the system we run or has a lack of experience in it.
     
  8. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    WTF???

    Moore played OLB in college as well as DE. He can do either. He is not "a predominate 4-3 defensive end" at all as you have stated. That's just how the Giants used him because they run a base 4-3 defense.

    Obviously, as an edge rusher, his strong suit is not pass coverage. That can be said about virtually all edge rushers.

    The guy runs like Tourek Williams (i.e., slow top end speed), but he is a more fluid athlete than either Williams or Law. He's athletic, but not explosive and has a history of being able to collect some sacks. He is better than Emanuel is right now.

    I think Emanuel will improve, but will he ever get the pass rushing contribution that Moore has already proven he can get (which is on par with what Attaochu and Ingram have done so far this year only it took him a full season to do it--5.5 sacks)?

    The other thing that is interesting to note is that because Damontre Moore was only 20 years old when he was drafted by the Giants, he is actually a year younger than Emanuel and only 4 months older than Attaochu. That leads me to conclude that Moore may still be getting better as a player and probably has not yet played his best football. It also lead me to conclude that he is still in the process of maturing and, as a result, his episodes that have demonstrated a lack of maturity in the past are likely to decrease in number as time moves forward.

    The more I think about it, the more I think that Moore represents a case where a potentially good developmental prospect can be picked up for the price of a fringe roster player. He represents a smart signing for the range he was getting ($585K) in that he is way better than the typical $585K type player.
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    He played JOKER in college, not OLB. There's a pretty notable difference. JOKER (at least as A&M uses the term; and TCU before them) is more akin to a wide-9 DE or the LEO that Seattle, Jacksonville, and Atlanta deploy. Back when Pete Carroll was at USC, it was referred to as the "elephant linebacker" position when Clay Matthews was playing it, but that's the closest the position is referred to as being a LB, aside from the fact that it's player typically starts from a two-point stance. The position, however, is more a wide-split lineman than a linebacker. And Moore specifically got A LOT of his production off of an inside slant from that Wide-9.

    Also, Moore has been in the league for 3 years and still has many of the same deficiencies he had as a prospect - some of which he was never really going to be able to fix, but the ones that he could, it's actually quite concerning that he hasn't. He still has less than desirable upper body strength and lackluster hand usage to use that which he's got. He still tends to play too tall and gets moved when he's supposed to be anchoring. That he can spend 3 years in the league, being paid to work on improving these aspects of his game, and still shows limited improvement speaks quite a bit about what kind of professional he is.

    Moreover, the concerns about his personality and maturity were there at A&M and weren't a secret - they were the biggest contributing factor (outside of his poor first step) for him falling in the draft in the manner that he did. Again, 3 years as a pro and he still hasn't reined those in? I fail to see how that can lead you to a logical conclusion that his maturity incidents are likely to decrease. You're grasping to fit the ol' agenda. Moore has had LONGER with the highest level of coaching and resources available than either Attaochu or Emanuel so he SHOULD be more progressed.
     
  10. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Moore's NFL.com draft profile specifically references him playing as a rush linebacker one year and as a DE the next year. Nobody is suggesting that he is going to excel in pass coverage any more than any edge rusher would be expected to handle that assignment.

    Also, it is unclear why you seem to suggest that someone that plays Leo cannot play on the weak side as an OLB. It is not as if the skill sets required to play each position are mutually exclusive.

    And all of that is without considering all of the 4-3 formations out of which we frequently play.

    Further, Moore has proven to be capable of being a 5.5 sack guy in the NFL. He did that last year. That's Attaochu/Ingram type production. It is better than Emanuel's level of production. He would not have to improve at all to be the third best OLB on our roster right now.

    But given that he is just 23, there is a good chance that he might improve some more.

    Again, we are talking about a potential reserve player for us that is already capable of getting some sacks that might get a little better. He obviously improves our depth. That's a no-brainer.

    Moreover, I am not grasping at anything. The guy's already demonstrated production is better than that of every OLB on our team not named Attaochu or Ingram. I think you are grasping at straws to try to justify why he isn't a better option than every OLB we have not named Attaochu or Ingram.

    Finally, it is mind boggling to me how you do not see how lapses associated with immaturity might lessen as someone becomes less immature (i.e., matures). Do you really think that everyone's peak maturity is fully in place at age 23?

    People develop mentally/emotionally at varying rates. Sometimes a guy needs a couple of extra years to be as mentally/emotionally mature as someone else that is a few years younger. Absent an underlying ongoing diagnosable mental health condition, I would have to conclude that Moore's issues are of a nature that are pretty easily correctable, especially with some minor assistance if necessary.
     
  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    ^
    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

    I give up, I really do.
     
  12. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I'm an educator with an advanced degree in education. I'm well-versed in both educational psychology and expectations of maturation, particularly with regard to mental and behavioral maturation.

    Three years as a pro and Moore has been getting into issues ALL YEAR LONG this year. Since training camp there have been multiple reports of him getting into fights with teammates. Of him screaming at his head coach (Coughlin). Of him screaming at his team's general manager, Jerry Reese. This is NOT a mature individual, nor one who shows indications that he ought to be afforded a reasonable benefit of the doubt that he'll get his head on straight. There is enough evidence (dating back over 5 years of which he's been on the Google-able radar) to suggest that if he doesn't have a mental health condition, he either flat out doesn't care enough to enact change in behavior or he doesn't see his behavior as a problem in need of change. Either way, there's little reason to believe it's "easily correctable" - that's horribly naive. He's been entrenched with an organization much more stable than ours and failed to show any measurable progress in terms of his maturation (at best, he's stagnated).

    As to the box score scouting that is completely devoid of context... that logic is horribly flawed. Horribly flawed. Unless you're comparing them at a stat-per-snap basis, saying that Moore has "proven to be more productive than Emanuel" (a rookie, who has almost certainly played barely even half the snaps that Moore has this season) because of a bulk number is just fraught with shortsightedness. That's even ignoring the stuff that neither of us could (or should) be arguing without having examined in greater detail - like how those sacks were actually accomplished (i.e. coverage sacks or sacks where another pass-rusher flushed the QB right into the "sack-er's" waiting arms/right-place-right-time vs legitimately-created sacks).
     
  13. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    We can cover receivers and many of our sacks are coverage sacks. Our pass rushers certainly are not devastating instant win sack artists for the most part. The only sack Emanuel has ever had was when an OL player completely ignored him (blown assignment) as a pass rusher in week 1. Otherwise, he has a big fat zero in that category.

    Moore has a 5.5 sack season. He has three this year. That is better than anything we have behind Ingram and Attaochu. Simple.

    More stable organization? Coughlin is a notorious task master when it comes to handling his players. He is arguably the least "players' coach" in the league. I actually kind of like that because I think it tends to toughen up players, but it is easy to see how that approach would not work with an immature spoiled player that has had everything handed to him in life.

    Marvin Lewis could work with this kid easily (which is frankly the only redeeming feature that I think exists with Marvin Lewis as a coach--he can reach knuckleheads, allowing CIN to acquire talented knuckleheads on the cheap, giving them a talent advantage over other teams). Part of that process is that he understands that it does not take much to change unless the person really does have a mental health condition, which likely would have been diagnosed by now (age 23) as we are talking about the types of conditions that manifest by the age of 23, not some sort of late onset schizophrenia (potentially later onset date).

    I think you are still grasping at straws if you are somehow trying to water down Moore's actual sack numbers. They are what they are. He isn't Khalil Mack, but he isn't a non-rusher either. He is a solid reserve level player as he occasionally gets a sack. And he is still young enough that he might get a little better.
     

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