1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Defensive predictability

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Shamrock, Jul 2, 2007.

  1. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    11,922
    Ratings:
    +1,243
    A Cowboy fan's look at our defense .......

    Scouting the Phillips 34; from Chargers to Cowboys

    It's good to see someone that has no bias for or against the Chargers to see the same things that some of us have been harping on. The middle of our pass defense was weak, and was predictable in certain situations (3rd down, and late in the game). If a "blogger" can see this from a partial replay of one game, then how come the SD press and Nat'l media couldn't figure it out?

    AJ sure has thrown out clues this offseason that this will change. He and Nix both stated after the draft about wanting interchangable safeties, (basically implying less predictability in defensive coverages) and the upgrade in athleticism and power at WILB should also help. Then there was Balt DC Ryan's comment after his interview about more pressure on 3rd downs, and how AJ and Dean liked hearing those words. I'm damn positive that Cottrell got the message, and we'll see a lot less of that soft Cover-2 as a predictable 3rd down defense.

    A question that may never be resolved is if the predictable 3rd down and late game defenses were Wade's or Marty's idea. I still lean towards Marty on this because it carried over from game to game, and it seems that a DC would vary it more often, UNLESS the calls were gameplanned in meetings dictated by the philosophy of the head coach. It will be interesting to see how Wade calls games with the Boyz and compare the differences to SD.
     
  2. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    5,817
    Ratings:
    +1,171
    Wade and Marty are both gone and I'll take my chances with the new staff. That drive before the half against NE in the playoffs was complete bullshit and we let them march right down the field and score. THAT as much as the players f-ups was a huge reason we lost that game.
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,033
    Ratings:
    +4,976
    In my 'ball watching' opinion we went to the prevent D way too often. It made no sence to me, as we put opposing teams in positions to have to throw on us continually last season.
     
  4. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    11,922
    Ratings:
    +1,243
    A true "prevent" would be 5 (or even 6) DB's all playing deep, while only rushing 3 DL. San Diego didn't do that, but rather our D utilized a soft zone cover-2 (or at times a cover-4). To fans, a soft zone D symbolizes the dreaded prevent, but truly is not that defense that was being used.

    My opinion for the past few years is that SD has been inherently talent weak in pass coverage over the middle. Complicating the problem is the use of a predictable Cover-2 on third downs and late in games (or halves - as BDH pointed out above).

    The Cover-2 defense has two basic weaknesses. First, it is susceptible to the "Power-Oh" style running game. Did you notice the big runs by Seattle, especially in the second half? Those were primarily against the cover-2.

    The second biggest weakness of the Cover-2 is the soft zone in the middle of the field. Good TE's and WR's on crossing routes will continually eat up that defense, targeting the spots in between the LB and safeties. Seattle had a lot of success against us in that respect, and would have had more if their WR's hadn't continually dropped balls throughout the game.

    I do feel confident that this has been addressed, and we'll see less predictability on defense, both schematically and in terms of personnel usage, this coming season.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,817
    Ratings:
    +1,028
    I agree Shammy, it is refreshing to see someone "outside" the Bolt fan base come to those same conclusions.

    While I have loved the progress we made since getting Wade and installing the 3-4 (2003?) - I have detested the 4th quarter of just about every game when we were playing against the better opponents.

    4th Quarter = Give up the middle of the field - back our CBs 10 yards off the line of scrimmage - and break out the roll of Tums... On Sundays make sure you took your Lisenopril or whatever if you have high BP. MAN I hope those days are finally over.
     
  6. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,033
    Ratings:
    +4,976
    Then, unless our secondary bites the big one, that shoudl be what is needed to propel us further.:tup:
     
  7. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    14,279
    Ratings:
    +1,886
    From just a TV broadcast, it's almost impossible to actually see where the D-backfield is actually dropping into their coverages. There were plays on Jams side of the field deep that looked like he was on a deserted island with no help over the top.

    I do believe that Kiel was a liability in pass coverage and made our middle to deep coverage weak up the middle. I would like to know in our nickel D who was subbed for, I know Hart had 5 less tackles than Kiel did with way less playing time. Cro wasn't really much of a factor or deterrent to offenses either.

    I'd say we lacked experience in the D backfield when it mattered most, you can only cheat so much to cover up that kind of weakness. At least that's what i'm hoping for, with another year down and some decent looking players that this thing is going to click.:bolt2:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,817
    Ratings:
    +1,028
    I'd say replacing Kiel, Edwards and Godfrey may go a LONG way towards shoring up the middle of the Chargers defensive backfield. We will know for certain about the 4th week or so of the regular season.

    I'm also going to be looking for a lot more aggression in the defensive play calling on 3rd and long.
     
  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,033
    Ratings:
    +4,976
    I dont know, Edwards was very good in pass coverage and not as bad as written in run support. But we have young talent that should fill in very well for him.
     
  10. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    What will go even further is Jamal William's back up. We have none. When Jamal goes out, the Chargers are in trouble.

    Eso no es bueno. :no:
     
  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,033
    Ratings:
    +4,976
    There are some who say that Castillo or Olshansky can fill in, but I dont know. The Defense goes as Jamal goes.
     
  12. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    11,922
    Ratings:
    +1,243
    He was overrated in pass coverage. As he's been for the past couple years. He was one step slow that entire Seattle game.

    He did have a good playoff game vs. the Pats. Makes one wonder if he was "coasting" during the regular season.
     
  13. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    14,279
    Ratings:
    +1,886

    Your right, from what I seen Kiel couldn't cover his *** if he knew where it was. Edwards was in on a lot of plays, but it was always to little to late. Godfrey could play his position but his best days were behind him.

    We will see more aggressive defense this year, these guys are hungry and they want it. We are at a time that none of us Bolt fan's have ever witnessed. We have a team that knows they're good and want to prove it to the world.:bolt2:
     
  14. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    7,894
    Ratings:
    +347
    I don't know of any team that could lose a Jamal Williams and not suffer a fall off. He is in class all by himself. His backups aren't chopped liver, though. Bingham is on the small side for a frontline nose tackle, but he has a motor and he's strong. McKinney is bigger but still raw. Jamal probably has three or four more good seasons in him, so their better find someone to groom.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    11,922
    Ratings:
    +1,243
    In the Seattle game that was on NFL Replay yesterday, Cesaire was playing the nose to give Jamal a breather. Cesaire did very well in the pass rush, but gave ground against the run.
     
  16. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2006
    Messages:
    18,996
    Ratings:
    +654
    There is none.

    But we have too steep of a fall off after Jamal goes out.

    Why not have a 5 man front with Jamal or a monster behind Jamal on passing downs instead of a 4 man front? This bugs the **** out of me.

    Groom a stud behind Jamal and stay in a Base 3-4 defense instead of shifting out to a 4-3 defense on passing downs. Fuc that. If we have OLB's who can rush the QB, who gives a fuc. Turn the dogs loose. :yes: :helm1:
     
  17. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,817
    Ratings:
    +1,028
    It took years for Williams to fully develop. Jamal was a "better than average" 4-3 defensive tackle - but absolutely came into his own in Wade's 3-4 - I've been whining about getting a backup cut of the same ilk for a Nose man since 2004. Cesaire would be a "better than average" 4-3 defensive tackle, but just doesn't quite cut it at the nose against the run. I'm glad Jaques is a Bolt and expect to see him in there more frequently on 3rd and long this season - but hoping McKenny will eventually develop into the #2 Nose Tackle. He did show a few "flashes" last year. ;)

    In the mean time you are spot on - too great a fall off when Jamal has to take a breather.
     
  18. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    There really is no current replacement for Jamal on the roster right now. We have some serviceable backups, but no one in Jamal's league. This is definitely a situation that has to be addressed in next year's draft. Until then - hold your breath.
     
  19. Kwak

    Kwak ....

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,293
    Ratings:
    +683
    As long as there is a change from the CBs sitting 15 yrds off the line on 3 and 10, I will be happy.
     

Share This Page