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Depth Chart - Who stays, who goes???

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by MadMike, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    Here is the Depth Chart as of right now. I have marked FA's in Red. I have marked RFA's and ERFA's in Blue. Tell me who should stay/who should go after the dust settles and our coaching staff is in place.

    WR: Malcom Floyd, Vincent Brown, Michael Spurlock, Seyi Ajirotutu
    WR: Danario Alexander, Eddie Royal, Robert Meacham, Richard Goodman, Mike Willie
    LT: Jared Gaither, Mike Harris, Kevin Haslam
    LG: Tyronne Green, Rex Hadnot, Johnnie Troutman
    C: Nick Hardwick, Colin Baxter, David Molk (C/G)
    RG: Louis Vazquez, Steve Schilling, Reggie Wells (G/T)
    RT: Jeremy Clary, Brandyn Dombrowski (T/G)
    TE: Antonio Gates, Randy McMichael, Dante Rosario, Ladarius Green
    QB: Philip Rivers, Charlie Whitehurst
    FB: LeRon McClain
    RB: Ryan Mathews, Ronnie Brown, Jackie Battle, Curtis Brinkley, Edwin Baker

    LDE: Corey Liuget, Antonio Garay, Logan Harrell
    NT: Aubrayo Franklin, Cam Thomas
    RDE: Vaughn Martin, Kendall Reyes, Damik Scafe
    LOLB: Shaun Phillips, Antwan Barnes, Larry English
    LILB: Takeo Spikes, Jonas Mouton, Bront Bird, Philip Dillard
    RILB: Donald Butler, Demorrio Williams, Gary Guyton, Andrew Gachkar
    ROLB: Jarret Johnson, Melvin Ingram
    LCB: Quentin Jammer, Marcus Gilchrist, Greg Gatson
    SS: Atari Bigby, Brandon Taylor, Corey Lynch
    FS: Eric Weddle, Darrell Stuckey, Sean Cattouse
    RCB: Antoine Cason, Shareece Wright, Chris Carr

    P: Mike Scifres
    PK: Nick Novak
    LS: Mike Windt, Kyle Nelson
    PR: Eddie Royal, Michael Spurlock
    KR: Richard Goodman, Michael Spurlock

    So we currently have 73 players on our active or IR roster. 4 of them are RFA or ERFA players. 19 are FA's. And 2 others could possibly retire (Spikes/Hardwick). Here is my take on what we should do:

    1 - RFA\ERFA - Tender DX with a 2nd round tender. Tender lowest possible for Windt/TuTu. Let Brinkley walk.
    2 - FA's - Sign Tyronne Green to league minimum, Resign Vazquez (4 years 10-14 million - 4 million guar), Resign Ronnie Brown for Vet Minimum, Resign Aubrayo (2 years 5 million 1 mil guar), Resign Vaughn (2 years 5 Million 1 mil guar), Resign Barnes for Vet Minimum, Resign Demorrio for Vet Minimum, Resign QJ to 2 year 7 million deal if he agrees to move to SS otherwise let him go, Resign Nick Novak (4 years 7 million 2 million guar), let all the others go
    3 - Retiree's - Keep Spikes if you can to rotate in (Not start) next year, Keep Hardwick at all costs
    4 - FA/Draft - Need to sign/draft 2 new starting caliber OT's, Need to sign/draft a minimum of 1 starting caliber CB (Prefer 2), Need to sign/draft 1 starting caliber ILB (Unless new staff can rescue Mouton), Need to sign/draft 1 starting caliber RB, Need to sign/draft 1 starting/rotation OLB, Need to sign/draft rotation NT.
    5 - Cut Gaither and eat the cap hit, sucks but he's a cancer. Try and trade Meacham for a 3rd-5th rounder and eat some of his salary for the other team.
     
  2. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I underlined/bolded people who I think are gone. For Phillips/Barnes, I think one will be gone, and one will stay. I arbitrarily chose Phillips because I think he'll cost more. Looking at the offense is depressing, as there's virtually no talent there other than Rivers, DX, and Brown, and Brown is still really young.

    I think that letting DX go would be a disaster. If he's gone, I don't know who Rivers is going to throw to next season. Gates is basically done as an explosive player, and I'm putting the over/under on games played by Mathews at 10. We'll see what impact FA has on this team, but with our cap situation, we're not going to be making any splashes unless we take a chance on a semi-washed up veteran on a 1 year contract who then dramatically outplays it.

    If this team is going to make a turn around, it's going to happen in the draft, which is why, with our worsened draft position from meaningless wins, we're going to need to hope that Telescope is a freaking wizard and hits on real contributors in every round of the draft like Smitty did in 04.


    EDIT: I Bolded/Underlined Garay. There's no way they're paying him 5 mil to roll up to Chargers' Park in his Hello Kitty Smart Car and play 200 snaps.
     
  3. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Honestly I don't see us doing much if anything at all in FA, with the exception of cutting,

    Im not 100% but I believe
    If we cut Spikes we save close to 3 mil.
    Garay close to 5 mil
    Gaither 500,000


    I can also see Clary getting cut, seeing how Haslam who is similar type of player at 555,000
     
  4. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    We don't save by cutting Gaither. We eat cap and not a friendly amount (like close to $10 million thanks to that $13 million we guaranteed him - and have to my record only paid him out $2.6-2.8m of that). We either have to borrow from a future years cap (which doesn't give a ton of relief) or else it's cheaper to just keep him rostered and just PUP him for "Non Football" reasons - which basically equates to the same thing we did by IR'ing him (we're telling him, FU for taking our money and being a lazy bum, now go home and play video games because your lack of integrity screwed us - just stay away from our team).

    It'll be interesting to see what happens there though, because we know Dean doesn't like paying guys to not play for him. But with $13 million guaranteed and only $8 million of that paid out in his signing bonus and $1 million of that paid out in 2012 salary, that still leaves $4 million Gaither's contractually owed even if released... and his scheduled salary for 2014 is $4.5 million. If Dean chisels, he'll quibble over that extra 500K, but just paying that out, PUP'ing Gaither, and releasing him in 2014 is much more advantageous for the salary cap situation of the franchise in general (release him in 2014 and he's a $1 mill cap savings even after dead money penalties).

    Cutting Garay does free up $5 million. In fact he's probably one of the first to go because he's due a $1.5 million roster bonus for 2013.

    Cutting Spikes frees up around $2.3 million.
     
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  5. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    What about Clary? I know he'll be making 4 mil this yea and his 4 year 20 mil. was front loaded. If we cut him how much do you think we'll save, if any

    Also do you see us making any surprise cuts to save money? like what they did last year in Indy
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It's really too bad Norv :poop: on this team on his way out of town...... were ******* loaded!!! :laugh:
     
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  7. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Keeping Gaither on the roster this year would just delay the bigger cap hit. The guaranteed money will count against our cap, it's just a matter of when. But if we keep him on the roster we also have to pay him his salary, which then would also count against the cap. The best thing to do is just take the cap hit and be done with it.
     
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  8. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    If he's on the PUP list, we don't pay him his salary
     
  9. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    You can't PUP him for the whole year and just not pay him.
     
  10. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Oh?
     
  11. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    If we can PuP hima nd save some cap space then do it. Don't want him anywhere near that locker room.
     
  12. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    if thats the case can we PUP Meachem too for the remainder of their contracts? ;)
     
  13. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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  14. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Players on the PUP list get paid their full or a reduced salary (based on their contract), unless they suffered a non-football injury which makes them unable to play. But if Gaither passes his physical, you have to either pay him or cut him. You can't just stick him on the PUP list and not pay him for no reason.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Well... the best thing to do is pay the guy and IR him immediately or pay him, and just make him go through one practice where everyone else carried over from last year's team gets to tee off on him in the nutcracker drill. He's gonna get his money either way, but cutting his this year means that if we cut Spikes and Garay we still haven't nullified the dead money hit we'd take for cutting Gaither.
     
  16. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I wasn't arguing to stick him on the PUP and not pay him. I was saying it makes more financial sense to stick him on the PUP, pay him (because he's going to get the money +/- $500k regardless), and tell him to go back home and sit on his lazy butt and stay the hell away from this team (as we did when we put him on IR). It's just more football fiscally sound to pay him to sit and do nothing but stay away this year ... and have more available cap space to replace him with someone who will actually give a crap, than it is to release him and let him occupy more of the space we could have used to pay his replacement than he would otherwise AND STILL sit on his butt and do nothing.
     
  17. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    How can Gaither get away with taking all this money legally and not living up to his contract. Not only that but how can the NFL enforce a monetary rule when it seems to be a well known fact that he's just ripping the money off???.
    There must be some type of breach going on, hell, contractors have to preform their services or not get paid.
     
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  18. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It certainly sets a terrible precedent if a malingerer is allowed to pull down that kinda dough for doing nothing. It's like those thieves who claim disability and are later seen doing their own reconstruction on their homes. That is fraud, no matter how you look at at.
     
  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Like I've been saying, Spanos and the owners really need to address this with the player's union. Sadly, in an era where the NFL is fighting lawsuits regarding and trying to demonstrate a greater concern for player safety, making a stink about a player "not being injured when he says he is" doesn't portray well in the public eye.
     
  20. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like a winner. 1st day of camp we do a modified Oklahoma drill. Gaither vs. everyone on the team. Let them all lay wood on this guy. Send him to IR and go on with our lives.
     
  21. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    According to Rotoworld, Gaither is scheduled to make $4.5 million this season. Assuming the rotoworld figures are correct, if we cut him before the season, then we are just only on the hook for the remaining pro-rated portion of his $13.5 mil signing bonus, about $10 mil. Keeping him on the roster this season would reduce his cap number for 2013 to around $8 mil, but we would still suffer a $7.5 mil cap hit if we cut him next year.

    If we cut him this year, we should also be able to defer some of the cap hit to next year, meaning he would count $5 mil against our 2013 cap and $5 mil against our 2014 cap. Cutting Gaither, much like the man himself, is a no-brainer.
     
  22. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    rotoworld isn't a source you want to consult for salary info. spotrac.com is a superior source; they actually consult the NFLPA site records and do a much more accurate year to year breakdown.

    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-diego-chargers/jared-gaither/

    His signing bonus was $8 million, paid at time of signing. That's 8 subtracted from the the 13 guaranteed to start, leaving 5 million unaccounted for. $1 million of that was paid out last season in base salary; guaranteed figure reduced to 4 million of guarantees to still owed. We prorated the cap-hit of that $8 million dollar signing bonus evenly over the length of the contract (4 years at $2m/yr); 1 year of that has been accounted for.

    Now, were we to cut Gaither today, the remaining prorated portions of that signing bonus (3 years at $2M a pop) would accelerate and compound into a single-year dead money cap-hit of $6m. Then you throw on that we owe him an additional $4m in guaranteed money still (guarantees are guarantees). So that puts the total that would count against the cap if we cut him as being $10 million (of which $4 million would be fresh money from Dean's bank account to pay him to go away because he's still owed it contractually). That's $1.5 million in excess of what his 2013 cap hit would have been if we kept him on the roster (PUP'd or active) and he never played a down for us - and Dean saves half a million if we cut him from what he would have paid if we kept him. After 2013, provided he receives his pay-checks for 2013, his guarantee monies have been paid in full; his 2014 base salary is $5 million dollars and if we release him at that point the 2014 and 2015 prorated cap hits from his signing bonus (again $2 mill per = $4 mill total) accelerate and compound. That's $5 million in base salary that doesn't have to be paid (because he's cut) that comes off the ledger and $4 million in dead money cap-hit that goes on the ledger, for a savings of $1 million from what the cap hit would have been for 2014.
     
  23. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    That's a whole lot of typing to come up with the same numbers for 2013--10 mil against the cap if we cut him and 8.5 mil if we don't. It also doesn't change my fundamental point, which is it's better to cut him this year and take a smaller total cap hit than keep him on the roster and have him cost us more overall against the cap. Using your figures, cutting him this year will cost us 10 mil against the cap in 2013. If we keep him on the roster this year, he will cost us 8.5 mil and then he'd cost us another 4 mil when we cut him next year, for a total of 12.5 mil. Cutting him this year saves 2.5 mil overall.

    There also used to be a provision in the CBA (not sure it's still there), that allowed a team to spread out "dead cap" money over two seasons. If that's still in effect, we could spread out the cap hit so that Gaither would cost us 5 mil against the cap in 2013 and 5 mil against the cap in 2014.
     
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  24. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Just sue him for breach of contract and not give him the chance to enjoy anymore of Deans loot. Eat the cap space and move on.
     
  25. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Italics = Practice Squad
    Bold = Cut or don't resign

    So my final depth chart looks like,

    WR: Malcom Floyd, Vincent Brown, Michael Spurlock
    WR: Danario Alexander, Robert Meacham, Eddie Royal
    LT: Rookie, Mike Harris
    LG: Brandyn Dombrowski, Johnnie Troutman
    C: Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    RG: Louis Vazquez, FA, Rookie
    RT: Rookie, Kevin Haslam
    TE: Antonio Gates, Rookie, Dante Rosario, Ladarius Green
    QB: Philip Rivers, FA
    FB: LeRon McClain
    RB: Ryan Mathews, Ronnie Brown, Rookie, Edwin Baker

    LDE: Corey Liuget, Logan Harrell/Damik Scafe
    NT: Aubrayo Franklin, Cam Thomas, Rookie
    RDE: Kendall Reyes, Vaughn Martin
    LOLB: Melvin Ingram, Antwan Barnes
    LILB: Donald Butler, Jonas Mouton
    RILB: Rookie, Demorrio Williams, Andrew Gachkar
    ROLB: Jarret Johnson, FA
    LCB: FA, Sharecee Wright
    SS: FA, Brandon Taylor
    FS: Eric Weddle, Darrell Stuckey
    RCB: Antoine Cason, Marcus Gilchrist

    P: Mike Scifres
    PK: Nick Novak
    LS: Mike Windt
    PR: Eddie Royal, Michael Spurlock
    KR: Eddie Royal, Michael Spurlock

    I think we spend roughly $10-12M towards the cap in 2013 signing free agents. But, I doubt we let both Clary and Gaither go this offeseason, I think we keep one, but it's hard to see that too. There are 3-4 very serviceable and affordable strong safeties better than Cory Lynch. Ronde Barber, LaRon Landry, Yeremiah Bell, Stevie Brown, Patrick Chung, Chris Clemons, and Louis Delmas all come to mind. We need a temporary guy to fill Taylor's void until he is able to return. But even that, I don't think he's ready to be a starter just yet. Still very young and raw, so I wouldn't sign any of those guys to more than a 2-3 year deal except for Barber and Bell, those guys get a 1 year deal.

    We should find a FA on the OL who can swing, and play basically all 4 positions on the OL except center. Geoff Schwartz would be a great pickup and very affordable.

    Again, what we do in FA will determine what we do with the draft. We will sign FA's, we have holes to fill. Chargers continue to impress and surprise me this offseason, so I wouldn't rule them out of some solid FA players.

     
  26. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    The problem with cutting McMichael is he's one of those "locker room guys."

    As much as I'd like to see him go from a roster/cap/production stand point, and as much as I do believe loyalty is sports is overrated. I'd be surprised, albeit impressed, if Tebasco wanted to make his bones cutting a glue player like that.
     
  27. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    We do still have Bigby for 1 more year, are you suggesting he is a casualty?
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Except it's not a smaller total cap hit. The amount charged against the cap is the same - actually less this year if he's kept. If he's kept this year his cap number for 2013 is $6.5 million, not $8.5 million; the $8.5m only factors in if he is cut or traded.
     
  29. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    He's basically on what the league minimum for a player of his veteran status is anyway. Something folks need to understand is that the "league minimum" now varies based upon how many accrued seasons a player has - there is no more "set" vet minimum.
     
  30. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

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    Can I ask 2 questions about Gaither that I'm hoping some of the more well informed members here could answer:

    1. Is there any way of cutting Gaither for some kind of breach of contract? I assume this would involve some way of proving that he is indeed faking.

    2. Does anyone foresee a way in which Gaither could mend fences and actually play for the team again?
     

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