1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Depth Chart - Who stays, who goes???

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by MadMike, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,386
    Ratings:
    +1,073
    1. Depends on the language of the contract. However, the manner in which he was just put on IR earlier this yer and just told to "go home" rather than try and rehab any injury he had speaks pretty clearly to suggest that there wasn't a similar for-injury clause that McNeill had. The problem with trying to get him on breach of contract, and Ant as a (filthy) lawyer can probably address this better than I, is that the burden of proof is on the plaintiff (the team) to show that Gaither was physically capable of performing the duties of his contract (along with additional legalese caveats as far "without risking further permanent injury" and what not). And how exactly do you satisfy that burden of proof? The team doctors can say that they can't/don't find anything wrong with him, but he can claim to still be dogged by pain and that's a completely personal thing (how do you prove that he's not feeling pain when the only person with firsthand knowledge of whether pain is being experienced is the person claiming to experience it?).

    2. I highly doubt it. For one, it's seeming fairly apparent he himself has no interest in that. He's got his money, he's got his guarantees. Then you've got the countless number of guys on the team that did and have gone out there and played hurt, busted their butts to try and save their season and their coach, and those who were in contract years with their own earning potential and livelihood on the line and Gaither decided to quit on all of them because he couldn't tough it out for them when they toughed it out for him previously so that he could get his big pay day. I'd say bridges are burnt to ash at the point. Short of Gaither letting the whole team line up and play Nick Novak on his twig and giggleberries, I don't really see trust ever being restored.
     
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    That's all true, and seemingly compelling.

    But on the other hand:
    Acee swears that Gaither is gone for sure...assuming Acee is wrong has usually worked for me in the past.
     
  3. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,386
    Ratings:
    +1,073
    Other thing to always remember is that Acee's #1 priority is to sell copy/papers/ads and reporting the news 100% accurately comes secondary to that (so long as he's not venturing into libelous territory). Jumping to the hyperbolic determination that Gaither is "gone for sure", versus "gone as long as it's in the best interest of the team," is considerably more sexy when it comes to drawing attention and selling papers.
     
  4. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    49,402
    Ratings:
    +4,223
    The biggest question for me is Shawn Phillips. Do we tag him or give him a big contract and bring him back? Or do we let some of the young players try and full the void.

    I am torn. I think that we could do without SP, but he has been solid for us...
     
  5. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,733
    Ratings:
    +837
    based off a chart I stumbled upon:

    Player 2013 Cap Hit 2013/ Cap Hit If Cut/ Potential Savings
    Jared Gaither $6,500,000/ $6,000,000/ $500,000
    Jeromey Clary $5,700,000/ $3,400,000 /$2,300,000
    Antonio Garay $5,000,000/ $0/ $5,000,000
    Eddie Royal $4,500,000/ $3,000,000/ $1,500,000
    Takeo Spikes $3,700,000/ $700,000/ $3,000,000
    LeRon McClain $2,916,667/ $1,333,333/ $1,583,334
    Larry English $2,440,000/ $1,165,000/ $1,275,000
    Atari Bigby $1,650,000/ $150,000/ $1,500,000
    Randy McMichael $1,640,000/ $390,000/ $1,250,000
    Colin Baxter $555,000/ $0/ $555,000
    TOTALS $34,601,667/ $16,138,333/ $18,463,334




    As of now The Chargers have roughly 9 million in cap room going into next season, If all these players are cut we can have @ 27.5 million. 5 million of that woud go toward the draft so 22.5 would be available for FA's and re signing players
     
  6. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Royal/McClain are not getting cut to save 1.5 mil each, considering the dead cap space they'd each create.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,284
    Ratings:
    +475
    No way he gets tagged. Not even a chance we pay him near 10 million for 1 season. If he wants to sign a franchise friendly deal, we keep him.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,135
    Ratings:
    +2,720
    Phillips is a tough call for me. He deserves a new deal, but at the same time he's at the point in his career where a wise team might just let him walk. 2012 was arguably the best season of his career, how likely is it that he repeats that performance at 33, 34, 35....slim to none.

    I think I vote save the $5-7 mil and use it for someone like Derek Cox, or Brandon Albert, or extending Donald Butler.
     
  9. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    18,580
    Ratings:
    +2,641
    The Chargers would have to show there was a breach of contract and it's not always easy to prove that Gaither breached his duty if he showed he was trying to get better. The Chargers might have better success proving misrepresentation, suggesting he wasn't healthy when there was nothing physically wrong with him. Ironically enough this is where the doctors could work very strongly against Gaither if the word of the doctor's and all those MRIs can show there was nothing that showed he was suffering from anything. Either way it's not an easy thing to prove and as I've said before it's likely that the NFLPA will fight this with everything and anything at their disposal because of the bad precedence it sets.

    As much as I'd like to see this happen I am not sure if it's viable. What they might try is an injury settlement so he gets some money and goes away.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    He was ranked the worst 34 OLB in run support.. I think we should let him walk. Put Ingram on that side.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    Gaither will be interesting. I think we can make some more off him if we can get an injury settlement. If Gaither is gone, Clary will probably not be cut.

    Garay, English, Bigby, McMichael, Baxter are all gone and possibly Spikes. And other releases as well. I have us at around $18M. Could be $21M if Spikes is gone, but I'd like to keep him.

    I think we should restructure Rivers. I don't know why he can't Tom Brady did it. And also, think we should cut Malcolm Floyd and Charlie Whitehurst will save almost $3M towards the cap in 2013.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    So I edited a little bit. WR is were I'm most stumped at. I think we should try to acquire something via trade or FA, but I also think we should build through the draft.

    RG - like I said I really like Geoff Schwartz, he shouldn't be demanding too much, and we can swing and play OT.
    QB - releasing Charlie Whitehurst will save a good chunk of cap space ($1.3M). Norv is gone, so no reason to have this bum around. We could see Brian Hoyer, Matt Leinart or Josh McCown. All have history with either Mike McCoy or Frank Reich in Arizona. I would put Matt Moore on the list, but he most likely is looking for around $1-2M. I liked Jarrett Lee as well from last year, and I'd like to see Scott Tolzien too, but SF won't let him go.
    RB - We could opt to sign our own Ronnie Brown. But, he wasn't the best #2 option or "plan b" to have behind Mathews. Ryan is made of glass pretty much, the kid is extremely unlucky. So, instead of wasting a top pick in the draft, I think we should sign a FA. Depending on the price, I would love Reggie Bush. The guy can run and catch. But, I can't see him leaving the Dolphins. I like Kahlil Bell, Jonathan Dwyer, Mike Goodson and Brandon Jackson. Isaac Redman is a possibility too, and we can even re-sign our former 6th round pick Jordan Todman as well.
    RILB - I really liked LBC's guy Larry Grant. Didn't even know this guy was on the market! He will hold tremendous value, and like LBC made the comparison of Kevin Burnett, he's stuck behind arguably the two best ILB in the game right now. He's very explosive and quick - great cover guy as well, a former OLB converted ILB. Started 3 games last year for Willis, and had 39 tackles, 2 sacks, and 5 passes defended. Just watch those games and tell me not this kid would be a stud. I also like Phillip Wheeler from the Raidah's. If we can't get either, we might as well draft one.
    CB - I think we should sign a veteran guy. LBC pointed out Chris Gamble as a possibility, also Sam Shields and Derek Cox will be out there but a bit pricey, in the end worth it. Both are young guys with a lot of experience under there belt. But, there is a slim to no possibility we go there. So, guys like Darius Butler, Cedric Griffin, Elbert Mack, Chris Owens, Marcus Trufant, and Cary Williams would be expected.

    With those possible FA signings I think we can get a big name in FA for WR.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    Okay, so I think our roster could actually look pretty good for 2013. Obviously we have pressing needs, and I pretty much projected how much we will spend on our own free agents and also going out and getting others as well. No big names, like Telesco said, but very important players who have the potential to make a name for themselves. Similar to what Indy did in free agency last year, I expect Telesco to do not the same, but something similar. So here it goes:

    QB: Philip Rivers, Zach Maynard
    RB: Ryan Mathews, Le'Ron McClain, Edwin Baker, Jawan Jamison
    HB: James Casey
    WR: Danario Alexander, Malcolm Floyd, Vincent Brown, Justin Hunter, Robert Meachem, Eddie Royal
    TE: Antonio Gates, Ladarius Green, Dante Rosario
    LT: Lane Johnson, Vinston Painter
    LG: Chad Rinehart, Alvin Bailey
    C: Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    RG: Louis Vasquez, Johnnie Troutman
    RT: Jeromey Clary, Mike Harris

    LDE: Corey Liuget, Damik Scafe
    NT: Aubrayo Franklin, Cam Thomas, Logan Harrell
    RDE: Kendall Reyes, Vaughn Martin
    LOLB: Melvin Ingram, Antwan Barnes
    LILB: Donald Butler, Takeo Spikes (reduced $)
    RILB: Larry Grant, Jonas Mouton, Andrew Gachkar
    ROLB: Jarrett Johnson, Alex Okafor, Larry English
    LCB: Darius Butler, Marcus Gilchrist
    RCB: Shareece Wright, Jerraud Powers
    FS: Eric Weddle, Darrell Stuckey
    SS: Corey Lynch, Brandon Taylor

    K: Quinn Sharp
    P: Mike Scifires
    LS: Mike Windt

    Love to see guys like, Ray-Ray Armstrong (SS), Marcus Cromartie (CB), Philip Lutzenkirchen (HB), Braden Brown (OT/OG), and Kapron Lewis-Moore (NT) all added as undrafted free agents, and possible practice squad additions. I also believe we sign an undrafted free agent at QB, get him to backup Rivers, and also develop his game. Zach Maynard, will be a project, but he comes from Cal, and a Jeff Tedford recruit, who developed guys like Aaron Rodgers and Trent Dilfer.

    Releasing Charlie Whitehurst, Randy McMichael, Colin Baxter, Stephen Schilling, Antonio Garay, Takeo Spikes, and Atari Bigby will have us at about $13.94M added to our cap space of $6.22M will be about $20.2M. Then you factor in, hopefully the restructured contracts of Philip Rivers and Eric Weddle, and hopefully were at about $26-27M. $5M towards the draft, so we have about $21-22M to spend on our own players and free agency, and I project we use up about $20M in re-signing our own and free agents.
     
  14. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,135
    Ratings:
    +2,720
    I just don't know how you can put Jeromey Clary's name up there without cringing. We actually save a couple mil by cutting him, and Haslam is a better or equal player, so I'll be disgusted if he remains another year.
     
  15. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    Trust me, I don't think anybody can stand Clary at this point. But I think the cap hit is more than what we save. Unless we cut him the same time period as Gaither, and that dead money goes towards next years cap, I'm with it. And, I'd rather have Brandyn Dombrowski or Kevin Haslam there at RT than him if that's the case.
     
  16. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,135
    Ratings:
    +2,720
    It looks like we save $2.3M on the cap if we cut Clary. http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Chargers&Year=2013

    With the added benefit that there will be no dead money in 2014 when we eventually cut him anyway.
     
  17. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,284
    Ratings:
    +475
    Rivers was asked about his contract on air today on 1090 and he said he has never been contacted by the Chargers to talk about a restructure. Didnt seem like he would have an issue with it, just no contact.
     
  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    Fck it, let's do it then. We could even use that to sign a free agent right tackle, Sean Locklear, Tyler Polumbus or Eben Britton, who can play guard as well.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,311
    Ratings:
    +636
    Acee did say he expects or heard that possibly both Rivers and Weddle could be restructured. With Roethlisburger, Brady, and a bunch of other players being asked to restructure to make room for free agency, I know it's mostly teams over the cap right now, but I'm sure Rivers is open to doing so if it means they keep Louis Vasquez. I'm surprised he hasn't been asked yet, but hopefully soon.
     
  20. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,733
    Ratings:
    +837
    Until FA starts its damn near impossible to assume anything, For all we know there could be some cuts and or restructures coming up where we create enough cap to re-sign Vasquez and bring in Levitre, or neither or one of these big FA LT's, or a pass rusher.

    At this point the only 2 moves that have been mentioned are claiming Johnny Patrick and re leasing Antonio Garay

    Anything else like predicting a roster before FA although fun, is a bit pre mature
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,386
    Ratings:
    +1,073
    I think he hasn't been asked yet because there's still the possibility that he gets extended and not just restructured - as extending him would mean we could achieve both at the same time and have more years over which to prorate the "signing bonus" that would be made of a good chunk of Rivers' due 2013 salary. It's pretty much the same thing Brady did - the question is whether Rivers is willing to extend at the extremely team-friendly rate that Brady did.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,284
    Ratings:
    +475
    So seeing as the FA season starts next week, my guess is we start hearing about our cuts on Monday. Lets hope they clear another 6-10 million so they can start molding this team into what they want.
     
  23. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,135
    Ratings:
    +2,720
    I'll be a complete nerd and do a depth chart to because I'm so bored. Assuming we don't go out and get a left tackle in free agency...

    QB: Philip Rivers, Josh Johnson
    RB: Ryan Mathews, Montee Ball (3rd round), Edwin Baker
    FB: None
    TE: Antonio Gates, LaDarius Green, Kevin Boss (FA), Joseph Fauria (6th)
    WR1: Denario Alexander, Robert Meachem, Michael Spurlock
    WR2: Vincent Brown, Malcolm Floyd, Eddie Royal
    LT: Eric Fisher (1st), Mike Harris
    LG: Barrett Jones (2nd), Ty Green
    C: Nick Hardwick, David Molk
    RG: Colin Baxter, Johnnie Troutman
    RT: Ryan Harris (FA), Kevin Haslam

    DE: Corey Liuget, Vaughn Martin
    NT: Cam Thomas, Aubrayo Franklin
    DE: Kendall Reyes, Chris Jones (UDFA)
    OLB: Jarrett Johnson, Antwan Barnes
    ILB: Donald Butler, Demorrio Williams, Andrew Gachkar
    ILB: Takeo Spikes, Jonas Mouton, Brandon Hepburn (UDFA)
    OLB: Melvin Ingram, Brandon Jenkins (4th). Quanterus Smith (UDFA)
    RCB: Shareece Wright, Brandon McGee (5th)
    LCB: Keenan Lewis (FA), Marcus Gilchrist.
    FS: Eric Weddle, Corey Lynch, Jonathan Meeks (UDFA)
    SS: Atari Bigby, Cooper Taylor (7th)

    K - Nick Novak
    P - Mike Scifres

    I think this was a thrifty way to go about building the 53 man roster as Ryan Harris and Keenan Lewis are our only real notable FA additions. The toughest part was finding another pass rusher worth having that isn't injured, I am a huge fan of Cornellius Carradine but his stock is starting to rise to where we'd need to spend our 2nd possibly to get him...which is too high for me for a guy that won't contribute much this year.
     
  24. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,386
    Ratings:
    +1,073
    Another Cornelius is your solution... Cornelius Washington. There are some effort/motor concerns on the tape at Georgia, but he's already accustom to playing out of a 2-point stance. He was highly disruptive in the post-season games. And his metrics give an impressive read out - great explosive ability, solid quick twitch, quality ability to convert speed to power when rushing. He needs a coach that's going to stay on him - but for a guy that can probably be had in the 4th round or later because of his tape, it's a worthwhile gamble.
     

Share This Page