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Did MikeMc admit that not calling TO before end of half was a mistake?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Dublin Bolt, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    I was v interested to see what sort of questions/answers we might get to this question after the game. At the time I was screaming at the TV to call timeout. I thought the below somewhat telling in Gehlken's article yesterday. If MikeMc now realizes he should call timeout in that position then Hallelujah.

    There are some topics McCoy chooses not to discuss through media.

    He rarely talks injuries. He rarely talks penalties. And he rarely
    second guesses in-game decisions or play calls.

    Of the five questions (about the timeout not being called), the first four produced a bit of a runaround
    before McCoy said his final piece.

    "All I'm trying to do here is win games," he said. "We're not making any
    excuses. We're not going to come in here and give an explanation for
    every single thing we do. I'm going to do what I think is in the best
    interest of the football team every snap. I'll make some mistakes.
    Everyone makes mistakes.
    "
     
  2. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    I don't know if I read that in an article or not, but just a small mention was made by McCoy regarding the non time out call.
     
  3. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    If McCoy called a TO, the Raiders might have regrouped and gone for it on 4th with enough time to find the end zone.
     
  4. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    No, I believe what had happened was that before the end of the half, the Chargers could have taken a time out, and would have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-45 seconds to work with.
     
  5. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    Exactly and we'd have the ball where Janikowski missed from (inside Raiders half if I'm not mistaken). Rivers with 45secs and less than 50 yds to go = no brainer for me.

    Bad bad decision imho.

    I'm asking the question who thinks MikeMc realizes now that he made a mistake. If he does think this now then great, let's not do that again.
     
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  6. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    I don't think McCoy made a mistake at all. I think he weighed the positives and negatives of calling a timeout and likely took into consideration that a potential negative consequence existed that the Raiders might regroup and go for it on 4th down. We'll never know if the Raiders would have done so, but under the rulebook they could have. That potential negative consequence cannot be simply ignored in retrospect.
    I accept that I'm a minority of one here, but IMHO McCoy's decision to not call a timeout was a thing of beauty. It did not expose our team to increased risk and the Raiders' last drive of the first half did not result in a score.
     
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  7. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I think that has been answered. He said he makes mistakes, however we don't know if this is a mistake.

    Everyone second guesses themselves, everyone no matter what rhetoric they spew. So what, he didn't call time out. If that is th worst you can complain about his decision making, then we should be happy as hell. It didn't cost us the game, and who says we would have been able to do anything in 50 seconds? Maybe we could have, maybe not. To assume we would have put another 3 on the board is as big a leap of faith as is anything.
     
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  8. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Very unlikely. It was 4th and 11. McCoy should have used the timeout. I seriously doubt the Raiders would have gone for it, and even if they had, it's highly unlikely they would have gotten a TD in 40 seconds.
     
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  9. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Same 40 seconds we would have had and IIRC a certain team tried a 4th and 35 last Sunday. But I'll readily concede that few if any agree with my take, and I'm fine with that.
     
  10. tito

    tito BoltTalker

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    I was good with it, get to the half and make some adjustments. If we would have lost, the penalty on the Novak FG would have been my biggest gripe.
     
  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    It struck me as a slightly conservative choice...but not a bad one.

    You're on the road in a very close game. Trying to get big yardage
    in little time increases the likelihood of a turnover.
    No need to risk it. You have the better team: let them demonstrate it
    in the second half. The more uncertainty you inject, the more you
    open the door for freak plays and to let the weaker team compete.
     
  12. eoconnor101

    eoconnor101 BoltTalker

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    Not a bad decision, just the decision he made....it's not like he didn't understand that on 4th and 11 they were unlikely to go for it, but who knows, maybe they change their mind and punt and we fumble, maybe Janikowski makes it for whatever psychological reason once a timeout is called...and they kick off and we get it on our 20.

    Also, how would we have the ball inside raiders half? That would have made it a 67 yarder, quite a boot even for old Iron Leg McGullicuty in black and grey.
     
  13. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    But clock Management is all about probability. In that situation, there was very little chance that calling the timeout would have had a negative consequence. And as it turned out, the Chargers could have had the ball with 30 seconds left needing only about 30 yards to get into field goal range.
     
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  14. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    I watched it back. When the guy goes down on 3rd and 20 there are 43 secs left on the clock. For the FG attempt the ball was at the Chargers 44 (where he kicks it from). When the kicker misses, if there is time on the clock the opposing team get the ball at that spot.

    So, the Chargers could have had the ball with 43 secs left on their own 44. Give me a head coach in the NFL who does not choose to take the ball there in that situation.
     
  15. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

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    2 things

    Has it been answered?, my question is do you think McCoy admitted he made a mistake by not calling timeout in that situation?, he said 'we all make mistakes', but he did not explicitly say 'I screwed up, I should have called time out there'. I'm wondering is that what he actually meant when he eventually (on 5th time answering the question) said 'look we all make mistakes'.

    Are you saying, Yes, MikeMc admits it was a mistake?

    I'm saying if he is in fact holding his hands up somewhat then BRILLIANT. At long last.

    I didn't say we would have put another 3 on the board. I didn't assume anything.

    McCoy talks alot about putting the team/players in the best position to win. In this case he did not. If I'm HC I want Philip Rivers to have the ball on our own 44 with 43 secs to go every day of the week, simples.

    Yes the Raiders may have gone for it on 4th down. Heck they could have gone for it with 2 secs left after they called timeout..... (hail mary, pass interference in EZ or TD etc)

    Don't get me wrong, there is not alot wrong with MikeMc (he might be the best Charger HC ever!), all I'm saying is that his time mgmt is open to question and in this case he might even be saying so himself. If he is then I applaud that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  16. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    Bottom line, if it was a mistake it did not cost the Chargers a loss. The guy is only HC for his second second season.
     
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  17. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I've seen these types of situations go both ways so what's really right or wrong is how any coach decides to play it in the heat of the moment. McCoy, probably played the opening of the second half through his mind knowing they would receive the kick (I don't really know what the hell he was thinking) and carry that momentum of the stop and getting the ball first to another score to open the second half.

    He ain't saying, so it's left up to us for the guessing and we all know about opinions. :unsure:
     
  18. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I guess in short I am saying I don't consider not calling a time out with 50 seconds left that big of a deal. I doubt if it would have impacted the game at all. In fact I have often seen coaches not call time outs in that situation to get his team int he locker room to make adjustments.

    MM said he makes mistakes, and as I said before, if this TO is the only issue we have then we should be very happy.
     
  19. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I still don't see a "mistake" to admit.

    It was a judgement call...and, on the road against an inferior squad, the conservative choice was fine, here.



    (and I say this as one who has historically not been as quick to defend McCoy, as most in here)
     
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  20. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Most clock management decisions are judgment calls. This one could have cost the Chargers 3 points. There is almost no downside to calling a timeout in that situation. The odds of something bad happening because you called a timeout are very low, and the odds of getting a FG if the Raiders missed their attempt were pretty good. Those are the kind of "judgment calls" that lose playoff games.

    I'm not going to get too down on McCoy for that, because I think there are plenty of coaches that would not have thought to call a timeout in that situation. But, if I were an HC, I would hire a clock management specialist to help me make such decisions.
     
  21. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I see a lot of people taking about there is no downside to calling that time out. Yet it is a rarity that I ever see it called before the end of the half...
     
  22. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    The only downside is a turnover. But, in that situation, I would trust my best player to protect the ball and get 30 yards in 40 seconds. The Chargers have turned the ball over once in the last 5 games.
     
  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    We agree that "most clock management decisions are judgment calls," but I still think that
    IN THIS PARTICULAR SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES (esp. having the better squad that should prevail in the 2nd half)
    there was no real reason to take the risk of trying to force the ball upfield quickly in hopes of getting a FG,
    in a close game against an inferior team.

    So, no, I'd have had little issue if they had taken a TO, but I definitely don't see it as a failing that they chose not to.

    (and again, I say this as a guy who eviscerated McCoy/Whiz for the Titans & Redskins turtling blunders last year!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2014
  24. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I understand that you and other fans would. I would be fine either way, but lets not try and say this is a common occurrence to do this? When was the last time a coach called a time out in the waning seconds of the first quarter, with under a minute to go to give themselves a shot at something when you are going against someone as accurate as Janicowski?
     
  25. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

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    Dude says he never second guesses calls....."whatever is best for the team"........
    We're 5-1.....I'll go with that for now.........
     
  26. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    Yeah, he has a big leg, but I never thought of Janikowski as being particularly accurate, in fact Robstradamus said before the kick, "theres a good chance he misses this and we get the ball back." Just to be sure I knew what I was talking about, I looked it up. He is 54.2% lifetime from 50 yards or beyond and overall he is just 79.8%.
     
  27. Boltz_from_Oz

    Boltz_from_Oz BoltTalker

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    The ball was at the SD 35. We would have taken over from there, with no timeouts at 43 seconds left. Scores tied at 14-14. A chance to go in and regroup after a sloppy first half. The better coached teams usually readjust at half time and take control of the game. I think McCoy was happy with that.

    Having said that there was clearly some debate going on on the sidelines about whether to call a TO or not. With 11 seconds left you can see McCoy turn around and say "too late".

    Was it a mistake? No. I don't think so. It's more of a philosophical debate over the pro's and cons. Risk v reward. Given the situation of the game, the team playing poorly, and banking on being able to get in the locker rooms and readjust I can see his reasoning.

    The decision to call a TO was neither here nor there, whether we won the game or not. You'd like to think that we could outscore Oakland in the second half either way. I actually think most of the seasoned coaches in the NFL (Belichick, Payton, Harbaughs) would have done the same thing because they would be keen to get to their team at half time.
     
  28. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    I don't really find fault with it, but personally I prefer a "step on their throat" philosophically. Just too many years of watching Marty and Norv play conservatively and leave opponents in the game. Ultimately it worked, and I am cool with whatever works.
     
  29. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    It was a 52 yard kick, which means we would have gotten the ball back at the 42. You get the ball from the spot of the kick, not the spot of the snap.

    There's nothing philosophical about the debate. Clock management decisions are governed by risk/reward. In that situation, there was almost no risk and a very likely reward. The defense may have been struggling, but the offense was not playing poorly. In that situation, you have to put the ball in the hands of your best player and ask him to go get some points before half time.
     
  30. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    I find most fans demand that the coaches be as aggressive as possible in every situation. I'm not that way at all. But this decision was less about being aggressive and more about recognizing the situation. Calling a timeout before 3rd down would have been aggressive. Calling a timeout before 4th down would have just been the logical thing to do. It can only be called aggressive if it has some element of risk to it. And calling a timeout in that situation has almost zero risk.
     

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