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Did Trent Williams Sign Marcus McNeill Out of San Diego?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Johnny Lightning, Jul 31, 2010.

  1. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    Did Trent Williams Sign Marcus McNeill Out of San Diego?

    By Jeremy Beckett
    (Analyst) on July 30, 2010


    [​IMG]


    More bad news, Charger fans. Washington Redskins rookie left tackle Trent Williams signed a contract today.
    No, that's not the bad part. The bad part, however, is that the contract was for six years and 60 million dollars. This is what a rookie first round tackle signs for nowadays? Apparently so.
    Will Marcus McNeill see a similar deal in San Diego? Highly unlikely! Will he sign for less? Highly unlikely!
    Let's compare the variables in McNeill's and Vincent Jackson's holdouts.
    Marcus McNeill, 27 years old, All-Pro left tackle (Top Five in NFL.)
    Vincent Jackson, 27 years old, Pro Bowl alternate (Top 10 in NFL.)
    There were similar terms in holdout structures.
    Jackson is seeking a deal similar to Miami wide receiver Brandon Marshall's deal—near 10 million dollars a year for five years.
    McNeill seeks a deal similar to Jets' left tackle D'Brickshaw Ferguson, who signed this April for 60 million dollars over six years.
    Each Charger declined to sign their three million dollar tender earlier this year. And this is where the similarities end and the differences take a radical hike.
    The differences:

    Nine left tackles in the NFL made more than 10 million dollars last season. 14 tackles will see 10 million or more in the 2010 season. Even rookies. So McNeill's claim is legit.
    Is he in the top 15 at the left tackle position in the NFL? Absolutely. So, yes, 3.168 million dollars is an insult to him.
    However, at the wide receiver position for 2009, not a single player made 10 million base salary on the season. Brandon Marshall will be the first ever to do so in the 2010 season.
    Does Jackson have a legitimate shot at becoming number two? No! Not in San Diego, not anywhere!
    Look at the contracts of receivers who performed similarly to Jackson last year. Arizona's Larry Fitzgerald, for instance, earned $4,574,290. Detroit's Calvin Johnson earned $2,586,495. And Miles Austin earned $1,550,000 in Dallas.
    Statistically, they were on par with Jackson. So what's a realistic contract for Jackson to pursue? Five million per year.
    When Marshall signed the 47 million dollar contract with the Dolphins, general managers across the NFL cringed, while wide receivers and their agents began champagne wishes and caviar dreams.
    Needless to say, that was the same day that the Chargers lost Vincent Jackson's services.

    Does Jackson have a legitimate shot at that kind of money? No. Will a holdout help him get it? No! Sorry Vince, but your agent has priced you out of the game. You must both swallow your pride and get your heads out of the clouds.
    Does McNeill have a legitimate shot at seeing a ten million dollar annual base salary? Sure, in a market of at least 15 different cities.
    It seems McNeill has a very good claim to holdout while Jackson holds a "Dear Santa" letter.
    So did Trent Williams sign McNeill out of San Diego? Yes, it appears that way. In the history of the Chargers, the only man who earns that kind of money is the quarterback.
    The latest first round left tackle to sign in the NFL, Trent Williams, will make 10 million dollars per year.
    The latest first round wide receiver? Dez Bryant, who signed a five year, 11.8 million dollar contract. Even the holdout Michael Crabtree only got $2,393,000 total salary last year.
    Which case would you rather support? That of the left tackle or the wide receiver? In claims of who deserves more, McNeill has Jackson beat lock stock and barrel.
    The left tackle demands more money than any other position besides the quarterback. Let's evaluate what their time is worth.

    In a 16 game season, the offense will play a total of eight hours. The going rate for this eight hours of blocking is 10 million dollars. Wow. 1.2 million dollars an hour to block. Yeah, these guys deserve a raise!
    Has anybody noticed a new trend in San Diego? It is to sign all the young guys to multi-year contracts and get their services locked down before they become too pricey.
    Look at the past three draft classes with exception to Ryan Mathews. They are all signed at low wages to multi-year contracts.
    Brandyn Dombrowski is slated to start at left tackle at the start of the season. Tra Thomas will fill in at depth. Rookies Brady Bond and Nic Richmond are also in Chargers camp learning the tricks of the trade.
    Dombrowski made $316,630 dollars total salary last season.
    If the Chargers could lock down the services of Bond, Dombrowski and Richmond for a combined 2.5 million dollars annually over the next five years, or McNeill for 10 million a year, what direction do you think they are going to go in?
    My prediction is that Dombrowski signs a five year, eight million dollar contract; that Bond signs a five year, four million dollar contract; and that Richmond signs a five year, four million dollar contract.
    I think that Vincent Jackson gets a five year, 30 million dollar contract and that Marcus McNeill gets traded for the second and third round draft pick.

    Sorry McNeill fans, but the Chargers just won't pay that much, and McNeill won't settle for less.
    I have to end this on a bright note.
    The blind side. When Lawrence Taylor broke Joe Theisman's leg and ended his football career, it started the trend of giving big money to left tackles. That day was 25 years ago, and it is an isolated incident.
    This urban legend has grown by leaps and bounds. Truth is, injury can occur from any angle on the quarterback. All linemen are an essential part of his protection. Having three rotational fresh players may be more successful than one.
    McNeill has missed games due to injury. The replacements provide ample protection for Rivers in his absence.
    I'll conclude by saying I think it's pretty apparent that Jackson will be way more anxious to land a multi-year deal with the Chargers than McNeill.
    Williams signing today knocked the Chargers right out of contention for his services. The emergence of the young, huge left tackles the Chargers have in the stable will make the blow a lot easier to deal with.
    Also, much more attention and money will be made to Vincent Jackson. The truth of the matter is, he is going to be a major component in a Super Bowl run.
    But will Jackson bite on an offer of six million a year? It's pretty clear McNeill won't—that's now less than rookie chump change in his neighborhood.


    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/427392-did-trent-williams-sign-marcus-mcneill-out-of-san-diego
     
  2. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Absolutely, but he was probably gone prior to that because AJ will not back down on his stance and I doubt MM will either
     
  3. Boltergeist

    Boltergeist BoltTalker

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    More hype. Again...Marcus McNeill is NOT a top 5 LT in the NFL. Top 15, sure....Top 10...pushing it...Top 5...no.

    Vincent Jackson however is at least top 10 and maybe pushing top 5.
     
  4. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Both are top 10, and the tender they were given is 1/3 of what market value is for them.

    But a top 10 LT is MUCH more important than a top WR, and it isn't even close
     
  5. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    You can make that statement for McNeill, however the article shows that not to be the case with Jackson.

    Roddy White (who has no suspensions) is earning roughly $5.5m per, Larry Fitzgerald $6.0m per, Greg Jennings $5.4m per, Andre Johnson $6.8m. Jackson got offered half that, at a time when he was in a position where he could have missed 1/4 of the season because of his own stupid mistake. And somehow because the Phins overpaid Brandon Marshall, VJ gets the idea that he deserves/wants a contract slightly higher than Marshall's $9.4m per year average. That's not comparable with the market, that's trying to set the new standard for the market.

    I've said through all this, I have no problem signing VJ long-term, but he forfeited his right to having everything done on his terms long ago. 5 years at an average of $7.5-8m per, with the larger bases backloaded, and a rider on the amount of monies guaranteed tied to him not earning another league-issued suspension in the first 3 years of the contract... and that's reasonable. No receiver... NONE... is worth $10m per.
     
  6. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Larry Fitz got a 4 year, $40 mil contract. Andre Johnson is currently in discussions to get a huge pay raise. Brandon Marshall, who does have a suspension and injury issues, got 5 years $47 mil,

    By the way, I have never once said I think the Chargers should resign VJ for anywhere near this amount. I think he is a product of having a great QB throwing him the ball and is replaceable.

    The only thing I will point out, is that if you are going to compare contracts, don't look at contracts given out 2-4 years ago when the overall salary cap was $15-20mil less
     
  7. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Within the last 2-3 years is relevant if we're discussion comparable player ability relative to contract received. Again, just because more money is available within the cap does not mean that the player is automatically entitled to an incremental increase. That's been the practice in place with rookie pay and I think we can all agree that that instance has shown it's a poor model to follow (one which looks as though it will be rectified at least from the rookies perspective in any future CBA).

    Jennings and White signed their extension last year. Andre Johnson? 3 years ago. Is he bargaining for a new deal? Yes... HE'S trying to get one. Whether Bob McNair consents to paying that is an entirely different story (McNair's an old school owner pretty well known to look at a contract signed as a contract that ought to be honored the same way Mike Brown does). Fitz's was signed in '08, is relevant because until Marshall's contract (and even then an argument could be made because of some of the provisions it contained) it set the market, and at the same time he was at the time and is still currently one of the Top 3 WR's in the game that brings in a TON of revenue to a small market team.

    I think we both can agree that the words "Well, Larry Fitzgerald got..." shouldn't even be uttered by VJ or his agent, because VJ is not the caliber of player or citizen that Fitz is.

    I have no issue whatsoever with any GM hardballing any one single player at any time. His job is to field the best 53 guys he can year in and year out... with the exception of a franchise QB and - debatably - a franchise pass-rusher (to the extent that any and all pass-rush fails to the levels of ineptitude in their absence) no one player is bigger or more important than the team.
     
  8. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Right now both McNeill and Jackson are as low as whale ****. Neither guy is on an active roster so how can they even be in the bottom third as they don't count for anything at this time.
     
  9. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Dude, rookies get a 10-15% incease over the same position the year before. Veterans don't get the same amount as a guy 3 years prior
     
  10. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    So because Washinton is ****ing retarded for making that deal the Chargers should also have to dish out that kinda money?

    [​IMG]

    The league seriously needs to something about these ridiculous rookie contracts.
     
  11. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    They will. In the next CBA. :yes:
     
  12. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    I think the problem is mcneils agent. Takes two sides to come to a contract conclusion.

    I still think that mcneil could make some money this year if he was straight with the chargers. But so far mcneils agent has been giving the chargers the run around.
     
  13. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    and the vets as will. There will very probalby be a cap on all contracts in the future so it doesn't wind up ruining the league like baseball and basketball have done. The key to the nfl being as good as it is is. All teams have the same chance of getting good players. IN baseball and basketball its who has the most money and gets the players which has ruined those leagues.:yes:

    pro baseball and basketball anymore is a joke. Its almost embarressing how its run.
     
  14. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    uhh, basketball has a rookie salary scale and a salary cap (even tho it's a soft cap) and it is NOT like baseball where a team like the Yankees can just outspend everyone

    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Salary_Cap
     
  15. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    Please don't confuse Foober with facts. :no:
    It's all the agent's fault. :lol:
     
  16. Chargers-Superhero

    Chargers-Superhero Just win the Damn SB !!!

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    whale **** ?? That's a term I've never thought I'd hear :lol:
     
  17. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Neither is a top 5 talent. It's pretty damn close for top 10.

    IF McNeill gets signed, he'd better be prepared to accept a deal much more closely aligned with the one that Penn just signed in Tampa.

    As for the rookie contracts .... pffftt. This is likely the last year that you're going to see this type of unbridled spending for guys who have never played an NFL snap. It can't continue in this manner if the game is going to remain affordable for the fans.

    Oh, and btw ..... Williams is going to be much better than McNeill.
     
  18. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Sounds like the exact opposite of what was said in the UT yesterday where the Chargers are standing pat on their $600k tender and are not willing to negotiate.
     
  19. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    And AJ stuck tried and true to what he says (as usual). AJ knows that the team goes on. They are going to field a team and look at it like these players are injured. They players on the other hand are losing good money day by day. All MM had to do was sign the original tender, get paid 6X more than he did last year and "hopefully" quietly work behind the scenes on a LT deal as what happened with Gates. As much as I hate AJ for how he handles these issues I also understand that it must be done.
     
  20. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    I say pat Jackson the money if he can have another good year and stay off the sauce while driving.
     
  21. boltsnow

    boltsnow BoltTalker

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    VJ is a very tricky situation. Give the guy a LT deal and what happens if he gets busted again for DUI? How does the commish handle it? I'm sure he would miss some serious time. That's the risk you take. Risk vs. reward. I think AJ is showing which way he is leaning.
     

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