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Don't call the Chargers a '3-4 defense' team anymore

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, May 15, 2015.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    http://sandiego.suntimes.com/sd-spo...4688/chargers-34-defense-changes-2015-season/

    The Chargers are mixing up their defensive identity heading into the summer, as the team tries to fit its new personnel to a new scheme in just a few months before the season gets underway for real Sunday, Sept. 13 against the Detroit Lions at Qualcomm Stadium.

    The team has been running a (more or less) traditional 3-4 defensive front, meaning three big (immobile) lineman with their hands on the ground, engaging the offensive linemen, and four linebackers that run around and make plays. ESPN says that the 3-4 trend will continue across the league to counter the growing passing threat…

    Chargers defensive coordinator John Pagano on why the team is tweaking its defensive philosophy:

    “I’ve always been taught to get guys on an edge and being able to win those one-on-one matchups in those situations,” Pagano told ESPN. “Each player is different. Some guys are not built to two-gap in a 3-4 system.”

    Expect to see more Chargers defenders moving around like pieces on a chess board in what is called a “Leo” front. Basically, it exploits the best matchup (against the worst offensive lineman) for the defense’s best pass rusher, but also gives them the ability to drop back in coverage — if needed. The Seattle Seahawks are one of several teams that employs this technique.

    To counter more and more passing offenses, the Chargers ran sub packages (like a “nickel” or “dime” defense) around 70 percent of the time last season.

    GM Tom Telesco spent four of the Chargers five picks on defense, including three on either the defensive line or at linebacker.
     
  2. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Funny... I have seen us running this for like 4 years...
     
  3. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Telesco even addressed this in his closing press conference last year, he said by name they run a 3-4 but they continue to switch up their scheme on a play by play basis. Perhaps was the reason they picked Perryman
     
  4. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    We have, just not as the base. It's effectively a 4-3 Under where whoever is rushing from the 9-Tech can be moved from one side or the other to exploit mismatches.

    It suits the personnel we have better, and in the instances we've employed it more heavily we've yielded some really good results (the Seattle game last year was a big example).

    Likely expect to see one of Attaochu/Ingram as the LEO/9-Tech, Butler (if he gets his crap together as the SLB, otherwise that will likely be the other of Jerry/Ingram), Te'o as the MIKE LB, and Perryman as the WILL LB. Then Liuget as the 3-Tech (Michael Bennett), Carrethers as the 1-Tech (Brandon Mebane), and someone among Reyes, Lissemore, and Matthews as the 5-Tech (Tony McDaniel/Alan Branch) - though it's definitely possible they deploy Liuget as the 5-Tech and try to salvage Reyes in the 3-Tech, which is a more natural position for him.
     
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  5. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    The Chargers are a 3-4 defense

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I just feel like we are trying to run two different system but don't have adequate personnel for either, but this is how they try to defend it.
     
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  7. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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  8. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    It is difficult to run a 3-4 defense when your GM utterly abandons the concept of drafting/acquiring top end 3-4 DL talent, seemingly totally oblivious to the adverse impact his personnel decisions have caused with respect to our run defense.
     
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  9. tito

    tito BoltTalker

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    We were never a traditional 34 anyway, but a Phillips 34. There is a difference and Pagano considers himself a Wade Phillips guy. So these articles are stupid. I think I actually read Phillips say that his 34 is closer to 43 than the traditional 34, save a standup OLB. Main difference now seems to be we play so much nickel now with four down linemen, but we did that going back to Wade too. We just do it more now. So I don't think we are changing anything, people are just confused.
     
  10. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I disagree with the thought that our 3-4 defense is of the same kind/character as the Phillips defenses. Actually, the fact that it is not is exactly the problem.

    In 2006, in home games when the other team had the ball, our fans in the west end zone would constantly be yelling "you can't run" because our defense shut down teams in the running game. Jamal was immovable. Igor and Castillo were solid in their stoutness as well. The least stout of the three, Castillo, was probably at least as stout as any DL player we have on the roster today with Carrethers being the only player that has a chance of proving me wrong at some point.

    People talk about the game changing and that being why we play the formations we play. I do not dispute that, but I think it misses a very important point which is that we can't play effectively in our base defense versus the run, which is evidenced by our finishing 27th and 29th in yards per carry against in 2013 and 2014. We have almost no toughness at all and Telesco keeps making the problem worse as he did this year by replacing our best run defending CB with a CB noted for being soft against the run.

    As I have stated previously, Telesco keeps thinking "Colts" when it comes to defense instead of thinking "Steelers" or "Ravens". It disgusts me. By NFL standards, our defense is very soft and it didn't have to be this way.
     
  11. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Concudan, I have no idea why you think our team sucking in run defense is funny.

    Great QBs are rare, so I don't think it is funny when Telesco makes mistake after mistake as we watch the time on Rivers' career clock run down knowing that it will probably be 20-30 years before we are able to land another QB like him if past history is any indication.
     
  12. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I dont think sucking at run defense is funny. I think your bashing on TT every post is.
     
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  13. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Oh lordy, here we go. Now this team is worse because we got rid of Shareece Wright? I thought for sure that was going to be an answer on Jeopardy one of these days.

    "What are things you will never hear in your lifetime"
     
  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    You mean people on the internet who maybe played football in high school if anything don't know more than the professional coaches in the NFL do about how to play the game?! :eek:
     
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  15. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    When you have to explain comedy, it is not funny anymore. You should just let him rip ;)
     
  16. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Sorry, I am a giver...
     
  17. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Of course, but Telesco doing a job that makes him "bashworthy" in many posts is not funny.

    That a good number of Chargers fans seem to like the job he is doing for the team is shocking to me.

    It is almost like having Norv Turner as HC in that because we already had good base group of players before he showed up, when we put up okay results, everyone thinks that means he is doing a good job, but I keep thinking what the team might have been had things been done a little bit differently.

    I haven't seen a single convincing argument concerning why we shouldn't have paid Ryan Mathews (only) $3.5M per year to remain a Charger. He is probably worth about twice that. Just imagine what Gordon and Mathews at RB could have been for us. Just think about what happens if/when Gordon gets injured. Why are we not striving for quality depth when it would have cost us next to nothing to have it? We didn't have to pick and choose between Mathews and Gordon. We could have and should have had both.

    In so many ways, Telesco's roster building philosophies make no sense if the goal is to build a strong team deep at each position.
     
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  18. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Wright is a much better player than many give him credit for being. I have never seen a CB wrongfully flagged so many times for pass interference type penalties. The guy was snakebit. And he definitely was our best run defending CB, and our inability to defend the run is by far our greatest defensive weakness. So, yeah, it is difficult to see how getting rid of run defending players and replacing them with players that do not defend the run very well is going to help us.

    We were already 4th against the pass. That wasn't where we had a need. Rather, being 29th in yards per carry against comes to mind as an area where we needed improvement.
     
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  19. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

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    Sports Injury Predictor
    HomeNFL Player Injury HistoryInjury ContentPlayer SearchNFL Injury NewsFAQsContact

    Player Profile
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    RYAN MATHEWS (SD)
    HIGH RISK
    [​IMG]
    Player Overview
    Mathew's production took a considerable boost last season, as he played for a full season for the first time in his career. He has battled injuries each season since 2007 (at Fresno State) and has had trouble staying on the field up until last year as an NFL player. Our injury predictor has singled him out as one of the top 3 most likely to be injured players in 2014.

    SEARCH
    [​IMG]
    2
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    1
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    1
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    Full Injury History
    SEASON LEAGUE INJURY ANALYSIS
    2014 NFL Knee Mathews fell uncomfortably (face first with 3 300lb linebackers on top of him) and was carted off the field with an MCL injury. He is expected to miss 4-6 weeks
    2013 NFL Leg Mathews re-aggravated a hamstring injury in week 12 against the chiefs. He left in the 3rd quarter and was not able to return but played the following week
    2013 NFL Head Mathews left in the 3rd quarter of the week 5 game with a concussion. He was able to get cleared to play the following week
    2012 NFL Upper arm Fractured collarbone and had to leave the game, missing the next three games after undergoing surgery.
    2012 NFL Upper arm Placed on IR due to a broken (left)clavicle he sustained in the game against the Panthers.
    2012 NFL Head Missed 4 games with a concussion
    2011 NFL Calf Left game due to calf strain
    2011 NFL Hand Fractured hand and left the game
    2011 NFL Calf Matthews aggravated his calf during practice. He later missed one regular game.
    2010 NFL Ankle Sprained right ankle ligaments and left the game vs. Jacksonville Jaguars. He then missed another game.
    2010 NFL Ankle Aggravated his right ankle and had to miss the next two games.
    2009 College Head Suffered concussion and missed 2 games
    2008 College Knee/Foot Fractured foot and missed 5 games
    2007 College Upper arm Fractured clavicle and missed one game
    Copyright © 2013 Sports Injury Predictor. All Rights Reserved.
     
  20. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Over 5 season with the Chargers, Mathews averaged 12 games played per year and never played fewer than 12 games in any season until 2014. 12 games of Ryan Mathews is better than 16 games of any other RB currently on the Chargers roster except for Gordon.

    Simply put, you do not let #1 talent at a position walk when you can get that talent for peanuts. If that talent is injury prone, you safeguard against it by getting another #1 RB to go with the one that gets injured. Seriously, it took the Eagles about 8 seconds to figure that out. Mathews, good. Mathews and Murray, really good. So obvious, yet Telesco missed it. SMH.
     
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  21. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    See the problem I have with what you said is we were ranked 30th in the league for run defense so even if Wright was our best run defending CB he really didn't make all the difference, and if our CB is making all the tackles in the first place, we're screwed anyways. Plus until the season starts we don't know if the loss of a mediocre CB is truly going to hurt us or not, I think as a whole our DB group got stronger with the loss of Wright and Ghilchrist.
     
  22. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    ChainCrusher: I wonder if you have ever broken up with anyone significant in real life? Do these words mean anything to you: "I have decided to go in a different direction" or "I don't think that we are suited to one another anymore". I seriously think that you suffer from a copious amount of codependency and fear of abandonment!

    If you keep repeating your sorrow and frustration over Mathew's departure, you may even beat the broken clock cliche (a hard feat, but I suspect that you have it well within you!) You have no affiliation with the Chargers FO, coaching staff or the players; so you have no clue as to what went down in those team meetings yet you mope and whine about Ryan's leaving. If you really are going to miss him that much, there is always the Eagles to root for and also Fantasy Football.
     
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  23. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

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    I respect your opinion on Mathews, I disagree with it, but hey everyone has a right to their opinion. This is what I see, when I think of Ryan Mathews. In 5 years with San Diego
    Rushing Attempts - 923
    Total Rushing Yards - 4061
    (4.4 avg...respectable)
    Rushing TDS - 23 (4.6/yr) terrible
    Rush yds/game - 67.7 blah

    If you break all of that down over a 16 game schedule you get
    184 rushing attempts/year for an average of
    11.5 attempts/game. If you multiply that by his 4.4 yds/carry avg you get 50 yds/ game and a TD once every four games.

    His best season in 2013...285/1255/6. He had one other 1000 yd season I think in 2011 and 3 sub 1000 yd seasons

    I just don't see why you'd be so enamored with that guy. Is he talented? Sure he is. But even in his best season he only carried the ball 285 times. And guess what, he got hurt, couldn't play in the playoffs and basically killed any chance we had to beat Denver in the playoffs (not blaming it all on him but certainly didn't help). I just think he's unreliable and the front office was tired of it.
     
  24. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    THere's also the assumption that Mathews would have accepted the same deal from the Chargers...
     
  25. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I am not enamored with him. The goal should be to build the strongest team. Mathews is easily better than D. Brown and Oliver. Someone needs to tell Telesco to keep the better players and get rid of the worse ones. That's how most GMs other than Telesco try to build quality depth.
     
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  26. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    You must be projecting your own relational issues. I've got nothing like that going on.

    That said, I definitely suffer from my football team never winning a Super Bowl in the 40+ years I have been a fan. Because of that, I don't like seeing our GM make moves that make the team worse. I like him making moves that make us better. Not re-signing Mathews is a move that tends to make the team worse and I don't believe the point can reasonably be debated.

    However, on the other hand, I did like today's signing.
     
  27. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    True, but I believe he would have.
     
  28. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    I've got the vibe that Mathews was never big on San Diego. I'm sure he liked it, but I just had a feeling he was going to bolt (HA!) as soon as that first contract was up in hopes of either a bigger contract or a change of scenery. I have no legitimate basis for that feeling that I can think of off the top of my head, but I wonder if all the irrational hate he gets made him want to leave. End ramble.
     
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  29. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    The point is that Telesco has a certain approach to defensive players. He likes them small and fast. So, our pass defense has improved. But we are awful against the run and have been for two years and yet Telesco continues to make moves that weaken us against the run and he refuses to do anything to help us against the run.

    We didn't need another quick finesse DL player, so I was not pleased that we drafted one when we can't stop the run. We need brutes that can occupy blockers so our LBs can make plays. Telesco has never valued a DL player any more than a 5th round pick or a Tier C free agent/cast off cut by another team. I think his approach is just wrong. Late round comparatively small/soft DL players aren't going to get the job done for us.

    Getting rid of run defending CBs only makes the problem worse when the CB is replaced by yet another comparatively soft CB.

    I think Wright improved every year as a player and was the most improved player on the team last year and was a solid contributor to a pass defense that finished 4th and was easily our best run defending CB.

    Gilchrist was not a bad player at all. It is not at all clear that his replacement is better. I think Wright's replacement is not better than Wright.
     
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  30. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Oh, yes I must be and yeah, sure you don't :rolleyes:

    You are hereby deemed fit to resume your position as the Chargers shadow GM :confused:

    P.S. furthermore Mathews tweeted and confirmed that he would have literally signed back with the Chargers for a bag of peanuts ;)
     

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