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Draft Happenings

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Pointyearedog, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    Apparently, the new L.A. franchise has made a deal with TN and the Rams have the first pick in the draft. Just saw this in the sports section. What do you think about this move?

    Rams land Titans' No. 1 overall pick in blockbuster trade
    By Eric Edholm1 hour agoShutdown Corner

    And the Los Angeles Rams are now on the clock. The NFL has to be eating this up.

    NFL.com's Ian Rapoport first reported (and the Tennessee Titans confirmed) that the Rams have acquired the first pick in the 2016 NFL draft from the Titans. It's a bold, fascinating move, and it indicates that the Rams will land a quarterback at No. 1.

    The league's newly relocated team is not wasting time making waves on the west coast, returning to L.A. for the first time since 1995. And giving Case Keenum a little competition, too.

    [Follow Yahoo Sports draft expert Eric Edholm on Facebook and Twitter]

    If early indications are to be believed, the Rams are favoring drafting North Dakota State's Carson Wentz over Cal's Jared Goff. They're roundly considered to be the top two QB prospects in this class, although Memphis' Paxton Lynch was a player the Rams also have studied closely.

    The Titans resisted trade offers for the No. 2 overall pick last year, selecting quarterback Marcus Mariota. It appears to be a good move now, as Mariota — even in an injury-plagued rookie season — showed promise. Drafting him also has allowed the Titans to target other positions of need.

    Resetting the boards for this draft, the Titans now have:

    1st round — No. 15 overall
    2nd round — No. 33
    2nd round — No. 43 (from Rams)
    2nd round — No. 45 (from Rams)
    3rd round — No. 64
    3rd round — No. 76 (from Rams)
    5th round — No. 140
    6th round — No. 193 (from Falcons)
    7th round — No. 222

    What an unbelievable haul by first-year general manager Jon Robinson, who is now running the Titans. They now control this draft, with six of the first 76 picks in the draft. Want to make a deal? They're apparently your first call. They have needs all over — offensive line, defensive line, wide receiver, secondary — and can address all of them this year. Plus, they're loaded with the Rams' first- and third-rounders in 2017, which sets them up beautifully for the future.

    The Rams now have:

    1st round — No. 1 overall (from Titans)
    4th round — No. 110
    4th round — No. 113
    6th round — No. 177 (from Titans)
    6th round — No. 190

    On the one hand, you look at the price it cost the Rams to go to No. 1 and think, "Did they not learn, on the other side, from the RG3 deal?" This is a hefty, hefty price to pay. But if they believe that, let's say, Wentz is their guy ... hey almost no price is too steep to land a franchise QB, which the Rams have not had in recent years since the bodies of Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger and Sam Bradfordbetrayed them, and their replacements often fell short.

    Keenum was being pumped up as the guy by Jeff Fisher. We now know that was lip service. You know who else is excited? The NFL and HBO. The league just stole back the momentum of big nights in the NBA and NHL in the news cycle, and will do so even more with Thursday's schedule announcement. And "Hard Knocks" now has another terrific storyline with the top pick in the draft.

    The Rams could afford to give up many picks in this deal because they've made 46 selections the past five drafts before this one, naiing a few (Aaron Donald, Todd Gurley), although they've whiffed on others and let some free agents, such asJanoris Jenkins, walk this offseason.


    Pointy :cool:
     
  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    So, does this mean Deano is itching to join them in LA? ;)
     
  3. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

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    This should help us. Surely they take QB now, then if Cleveland take the other one at 2, Tunsil sits there at 3 for the taking.
     
  4. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Chargers have their pick of any skill player they want. TT must've woken up like a kid in a candy store

    And he could still make a trade
     
  5. Hgrove99

    Hgrove99 BoltTalker

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    Our draft pick value just sky rocketed if we choose to trade. Good stuff
     
  6. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I'm just not sure the pick changes at all at this point, I never believed for a second the Titans would take anyone but Tunsil, and the Browns have to (should!) take a QB. The only thing it's done is virtually guarantee both of the highest trade value players are off the board when we pick, meaning we won't get nearly as much as we could have from a desperate QB needy team like SF or PHI.

    Now we have the conundrum of deciding between Tunsil, Ramsey, and I would assume Buckner or (God forbid) Jack as a safety (horse **** IMO).

    Buckner is not going to be JJ Watt. The similarities between the two are slim at best, so is potentially landing a Calais Campbell clone worth #3 overall? Is Tunsil so good we can screw over Dunlap after taking a pay cut? Is Jalen Ramsey a CB or a S, and is it worth taking a guy who might have to change positions that high?

    To me, Tunsil has the highest ceiling and the highest floor of the lot, but is arguably the least immediately needed. I would take him.
     
  7. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    The problem with Dunlap is he's one bad concussion away from retirement. He's certainly good enough if he's healthy, but for how long? I'd feel safer as a GM with Dunlap in the swing tackle roll, where his snaps would be limited.
     
  8. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    Or we let Dunlap and Barksdale compete for RT job and loser takes swing tackle spot. And by swing tackle spot I mean week 2-17 starter due to the offensive lineman injury disease that infests our locker room
     
  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I still think Dunlap is better suited to that role. Barksdale was resigned to play RT...... Dunlap already took a pay cut. The healthier player is a safer bet to start.
     
  10. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    It's sad that I've come to view most stories these days through the:
    "Is this more / less likely to rip my Chargers from me in San Diego?" filter...
    but it is what it is.

    Anything the Rams do to excite L.A., I reckon probably helps keep the Chargers in S.D. (I hope)
     
  11. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I do like the idea of

    LT: Tunsil, Dunlap
    LG: Franklin, Hairston
    C: (Draft Pick), Watt
    RG: Fluker,
    RT: Barksdale

    To me having a line like that is the best possible scenario (also one very likely)

    I also like the idea of Ramsey making up what could be one of the best secondaries in the league, but even if we go into the season with what we have now (assuming Flowers bounces back or Hayward takes the job) we still have a pretty solid group back there.

    Most of the time Telesco usually goes in the direction which has the biggest hole along with where we struggled the most that season prior, I'd say it was a tie between the run game and stopping the run, which leads me to believe its Buckner. Later picks can help the run game between a TE, FB and C (none of which are going to be taken with the 3rd overall) so for me its Buckner, (not my top choice but my most likely choice) not to mention we currently have no one in that position at the moment.

    It is also possible Cleveland takes Tunsil if LA takes their QB
     
  12. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    IMO Cleveland making any pick at 2 other than a QB is unlikely. I think they're 100x more likely to trade back to someone who does want the QB, or maybe just the Jaguars who may want to secure Tunsil or Ramsey before we do. That way they still could have a chance at Goff/Wentz or a blue chip prospect at 5.

    But drafting Tunsil almost certainly guarantees they have to trade Joe Thomas, which at his age with and his salary hit seems like a long shot. Only a few teams in the league could afford him and I don't think they'd get more than maybe a mid-2.
     
  13. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

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    One thing I dont like about taking buckner at 3 is there is a lot of depth at DL in this draft so im confident we can come away with a very good DE in round 2.. However, after Ramsey and Karl Joseph I think the drop off at the safety position is pretty significant
     
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  14. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I agree with this completely. There's downside no matter what.

    • If we take Ramsey at 3 we almost have to go DL in round 2 to try to get one of those sliding 1st round value players.
    • If we take Buckner at 3 there is a chance Joseph is there at 35, but if he's not we have to hope a center we like that high is there, and we may be S.O.L. regarding the safety position this year. I'm not impressed by anyone but Ramsey and Joseph, and as LBC said poor S play is ubiquitous around the league these days.
    • If we take Tunsil we get (IMO) the best player in the draft, while solving none of our immediate problems, but possibly saving the season if/when Dunlap goes down for good. The bottom line for the last decade is this team goes where Rivers takes it, and he takes it nowhere when he can't stand tall in the pocket.
    So I see negatives everywhere but with the obvious trade down scenario. I hate talking about trade downs because it's become so cliché with fans and pundits to recommend trading down...as if everyone in the league doesn't want more draft picks! But if we can slide down to 5 or 6 or 7 and pick up that extra 2nd round pick WHILE still getting one of those big 3 it would be invaluable.

    Seriously though, troll any message board talking about the draft and I bet you $100 half the fans there are talking about trading out of the spot. I roamed the Browns board today, and even their QB starved fans are talking about how collecting more picks is "only responsible move".:rolleyes:
     
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  15. Heir Coryell

    Heir Coryell BoltTalker

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    Would we only get a 2nd rounder in a trade down? I was hoping for more from the Titans who are reported to want back in to the top ten.
     
  16. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Teams won't trade nearly as much to move up for a non-QB, so if Wentz/Goff go 1 and 2 we have little leverage.

    The Titans traded back specifically for the purpose of hoarding all those draft picks, there's no way they give a bunch of them all back just to move back to 3. Maybe they move to 8 or 9 to pick up Ronnie Stanley, but they won't even call us.
     
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  17. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I can think of plenty of scenarios in which the Titans would trade up to #3 after getting their haul of draft picks.

    In fact, until the draft happens, you can't even conclude that that isn't their strategy all along.

    A smart GM that wants a player that he thinks he can get later in the draft would definitely trade back and then trade up again to get both the player he wants and keep some of the extra picks received from the team trading all the way up to #1, producing a better result than achieved simply by remaining at #1 overall.

    I am not saying that is the case, just that it is wrong to say that that couldn't be a consideration.

    However, if I were GM of the Titans, I would not trade up, especially in this year's draft.
     
  18. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Under the traditional draft pick trading points value chart, the Titans would need to give us #15, #43 and #45 and they would still be 230 points short, which roughly corresponds to the value of a top 10 third round pick.

    But with no elite players in this year's draft class, the ability to obtain what might be considered full value by the chart may be severely compromised as the difference between the top players just isn't there this year.

    Also, as time goes by, there is a trend in general of teams paying less than full chart value to move up (which is probably resulting in fairer trades as the chart has always favored teams trading back, sometimes ridiculously so).
     
  19. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    I think the values are mostly affected by the rookie cap
     
  20. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I agree, but the funny thing is that the rookie cap should make the value of the higher picks greater relative to lower picks than the value used to be because the top players are now more of a bargain to teams than they used to be. Yet, the trend is in the opposite direction.

    IMO, that shows just how crazy the traditional draft pick trading points value chart always has been in terms of it being skewed in favor of teams trading back.
     
  21. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    @lesbowen
    NFL source calls Myles Jack "a time bomb" whose knee could give him several good years, or not. Bone and cartilage starting to break away.

    Edit/Add:
    @NFLCharean. @lesbowen Yes, I have heard the same on Myles Jack. Real fears some in NFL have.



    A little pre-draft gamesmanship? Or real?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  22. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Absent a clean medical evaluation, he is a day 3 flier at best. There is no reason to take a chance on him with one of our higher draft picks when we have so many holes to fill. We can't afford using our bigger draft capital on a miss.
     
  23. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

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    Well if there's any truth in this, we obviously have to pass on him. Reminds me of the Daquan Bowers situation a few years ago. We don't have the luxury to gamble like that. Again, at 3 one of Ramsey/Tunsil/Buckner will be there. The first two are better players and Buckner fills a dire need.
     
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  24. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    A blocking sled on the D-line fills a dire need..... just a marginal upgrade over Reyes though. ;)
     
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  25. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I disagree. I think Ramsey is by far the worst prospect of the three players you named.

    For the life of me, I do not agree with where some people are coming from when it comes to Ramsey. I have seen people talking about how great of an athlete Ramsey is based upon his combine results, but consider this:

    Player A: 4.44 40 yard dash, 1.53 10 yard split, 2.58 20 yard split, 4.07 20 yard shuttle, 6.83 3-cone, 38" vertical, 10' 10" broad jump, 17 reps bench press.

    Player B: 4.41 40 yard dash, 1.51 10 yard split, 2.57 20 yard split, 4.18 20 yard shuttle, 6.94 3-cone, 41.5" vertical, 11' 3" broad jump, 14 reps bench press.

    Player B is very slightly more explosive and Player A is very slightly more agile (better natural ability to mirror). IMO, the differences between the natural physical abilities of the two players at the end of the day is very little.

    Player A is on our roster right now. His name is Craig Mager. Player B is Jalen Ramsey.

    Now add in that Player B, Ramsey, has minus ball skills. Both players weigh 200+ pounds.

    Can you really say that Ramsey is that special of an athlete when the scores on the drills are so similar to that of Mager, our 2015 third round pick?

    Why not use our first round pick on a player at a different position such as 3-4 DE or LOT and let Mager, who is a heck of a natural athlete in his own right, play FS for us with Lowery as a fall back option if Mager craps out?

    It would be different if Ramsey had either elite hips/coverage ability or elite ball skills. Then, I think we could talk about him as an elite prospect. But the guy has neither. That means he is not going to be shutdown cover guy or a big time player when it comes to generating turnovers.

    And this latter part we already know because Ramsey was thrown at many times at FSU and produced very little in the way of turnovers against lesser collegiate level QBs and WRs. His ability to be an impact player in terms of coverage ability and turnover generating ability is not going to suddenly get better (relatively speaking) in the NFL against better competition.
     
  26. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Player B also covered people who are now Managers of Wells Fargo or financial investors

    Justin Gilbert was far and away one of the best natural athletes in the 2014 draft but can't play in the NFL, Jason Verrett actually was an NFL talent and has proved he could match up against the NFL WR's. Ramsey faced better talent and has held up against tougher opponents. He is also coming from a program that turns out NFL DB's like none other and he was the top talent there since his true freshman season
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
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  27. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    To play devils advocate, you could say the same about Morris Claiborne coming from LSU. They turn out pro CBs and Safeties every year, and some are better than others.

    Having said that, one thing Chaincrusher continues to not store any value in is football IQ. Craig Mager is AT BEST mediocre in terms of instincts and anticipation, he's too physical in man coverage, and will panic at times when he has to turn over his shoulder to find the ball. Mager did exceed my expectations in 2015 in that he didn't look like Marcus Gilchrist 2.0, another guy with excellent combine numbers and no instincts; but he just doesn't play as fast as he runs in shorts.

    I do think Mager has more upside than I gave him credit for, but I'd still draft Ramsey without even considering Mager; and in the end I expect one or the other, or maybe even Flowers to play FS.
     
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  28. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

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    In all fairness, Chaincrusher isn't the only person to feel this way. I've read plenty of articles doubting Ramsey's ability to play cornerback. He was thrown at 66 times last year and 0 picks (and a few of those balls hit his hands). And the safety argument, Earl Thomas had 10 picks in similar amounts of games as Ramsey. If we draft him, I hope the plan is to start him out at safety next year (let him play some nickel and linebacker in sub packages). We'll have this training camp, the season and next offseason to see if he can play corner. I do feel even with his questionable hands he could be a pro bowl safety/return special teamer .
     
  29. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I agree with those people, I said months ago I would give Hargreaves the higher grade as a CB just because of his change of direction skills. But in any year I think I could make the argument that Ramsey is a legitimate 1st round prospect as a CB, and definitely a top 10-5 caliber S (safeties never really go much higher). Sort of like a combination between Eric Berry and Sean Smith, I think he could play either position and probably will.
     
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  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    We've neglected beef for too long....... Either line will do, but take beef first. That's my two cents on Ramsey. ;)
     
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