1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Draft Talk

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by powayslugger, Feb 3, 2016.

  1. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,297
    Ratings:
    +276
  2. scratchnz

    scratchnz BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,077
    Ratings:
    +91
    I thought Nkemdiche gave a good interview! For all the supposed Character issues he seemed very genuine with a sense of humour about him. I think he could end up being the best player in the draft! I wonder if the Chargers would consider him at #3?

    I also thought it was strange that Bosa didn't mention the Chargers when he was asked which teams he talked to at the combine. He mentioned Dallas and Ravens among others. Is that a smoke screen cos he doesn't want to give away the Chargers taking him or is the opposite and he doesn't feel like they are a potential landing for him??
     
  3. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    I think they should consider him in a trade back scenario, where we move into the early teens and secure a 2017 1st round pick. :cool: But 3 is a little rich now.
     
  4. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    572
    Ratings:
    +242
    FWIW Bosa is having dinner tonight with the Chargers contingent in Columbus the night before Ohio States pro day.

    Not sure if this is true or not but Walterfootball is now saying Tennessee favors Jalen Ramsey over Tunsil. Ramsey excelled in the team interviews (as well as obviously on the field) in Indianapolis. Apparently Tennessee is considering going with Lewan at LT while plugging RT with Donald Penn, Andre Smith or someone in the draft. I posted that I thought this could happen last week, it will be interesting to see if it comes true.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. chahjah

    chahjah BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2014
    Messages:
    182
    Ratings:
    +134
    if Tennessee do end up picking Ramsey, I wouldn't mind it cause that's not in our control and I wouldn't have trouble going to sleep with Buckner @ 3. But if we choose Buckner @ 3 with Ramsey still on the table, idk how I'd feel about it tbf.
    :confused:
     
  6. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    572
    Ratings:
    +242
    The question is, if Tennessee goes Ramsey at 1 do we automatically take Tunsil at 3 or is there still a question between Tunsil/Buckner and possibly Jack
     
  7. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    I fail to see where we take Tunsil. He's worth more as trade-bait - when you consider the resources already committed to the 4 non-center OL spots by this FO already. They just committed starting RT money to Barksdale. They just re-upped Dunlap last year - concussions or not, they're not going to completely write him off either because he's got at least another season (unless he retires prematurely) before he's affordable to get away from. They're not going to give up on Franklin with the money they committed to him last year. And they're not going to give up on Fluker as they committed a 1st round pick to him; they're also not going to sit the #3 overall pick on the bench for a year.

    Teams like the Giants, Bucs, Lions (that might be a bit far), possibly even the Ravens (Ozzie's not a big trade-up guy, but he might kick a 4th to jump up and secure the best OT in the class) would all be viable trade partners.
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    With all respect... *lol* to Walter *lol* Football... and all the *lol* dependability they've represented... I tend to buy Jason Licht - the new Tennessee GM's former boss and the current Tampa GM - who said that Jon Robinson isn't goign to let much of any "inside information" slip that he doesn't want to slip.

    This "Titans are high on Ramsey" reeks of smokescreen to try and drum up a team high on Ramsey to trade up to #1.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    572
    Ratings:
    +242
    I definitely see what you're saying. But my goodness, when you look in our division and see Mack, Irvin, Houston, Hali, Miller, Ware and the answer is Dunlap/Barksdale - that has to be a bit worrisome. Just to compete in our own division we need to get those guys blocked.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,182
    Ratings:
    +1,031
  11. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,182
    Ratings:
    +1,031
  12. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    The solution is Philip Rivers actually gets the ball out quickly when you don't allow a free rusher at him. Also, at least two of those guys Irvin and Hali are pretty soft against the run.

    Elite pass-rushers are going to get theirs, but the amount to which they eat often gets over-inflated. Not saying I'm not concerned. Just that, when you consider ALL details of context, Tunsil simply isn't a realistic option or us.
     
  13. scratchnz

    scratchnz BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,077
    Ratings:
    +91
    Sometimes when you get a Franchise Left Tackle fall in your lap you just have to take him. Dunlap and Barksdale are far from Franchise Tackles! Barksdale was given money because he is versatile and can play at Guard if needed. Dunlap is only getting older too.

    Dunlap would be a nice Swing-Tackle if we picked up Tunsil. Picking Tunsil and hopefully a Centre later in the draft would instantly give us a better starting lineup on the OL and give us great depth as well if we suffer injuries like we did last year.

    If this happens (and I hope it does) we will be able to protect Rivers better and hopefully kick start the running game! Two of the major problems we had last year as a team IMO.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    572
    Ratings:
    +242
    It seems like when we play the Chiefs, Houston gets all he can eat. I follow your logic, and you're probably correct, but I can't imagine passing on Tunsil because we have King freaking Dunlap on the roster. You know the story, Dunlap gets hurt early in the season, someone is playing LT out of necessity, Rivers is getting murdered and we're all on here talking about why we don't draft trenches early in the draft.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    And sometimes you don't.

    I'm not saying I wouldn't take Tunsil - though I do disagree that he kickstarts our running game; at this point Dunlap is the superior run-blocker and Tunsil really may never exceed the level Dunlap is at right now - he's more a wall-off and shield blocker than a guy who drives DL off a spot and bulldozes a path.

    I am saying that it's highly unlikely THIS FRONT OFFICE takes Tunsil if he falls to them. Whether the fans like it or not, contracts matter - if they didn't then everyone would have gotten their wish and Jeromey Clary (and his naked pictures of Dean and the boys in the bath tub... all as adults) would have be released when everyone was clamoring that it "made perfect sense" rather than when it was financially smart to do so. And the financially smart thing is to not be relegating the guy you just inked to a contract recently that still has a little less than $10m guaranteed remaining to the "swing tackle" role.

    Health aside, the tackles weren't the issues for this OL last year. People get too wrapped up in the backup-to-the-back getting whipped by Von Miller because, as per usual, we weren't scheduled to face the Broncos until the final third of the season and the injury bug played havoc with us.

    FTR, Tunsil isn't going to do squat against Von Miller until Ware retires and possibly not even then. The Broncos have habitually rushed Von on the strong-side to take advantage of slower RT's.
     
  16. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    So here is my argument in favor of Tunsil.

    Dunlap has to be no more than 1 concussion away from calling it a career. If we pass on a prospect like Tunsil, who compares favorably to a guy like Tyron Smith coming out, we could seriously regret it by week 4....and for a long time to come. I'm a Dunlap supporter, I think he's a solid left tackle, but I don't trust him to make it 16 games. Much less to make it through his whole contract.

    Then consider Fluker who is in nearly the same boat. Today we are fine, tomorrow we could be F'd. Telesco is in a tough spot if Tunsil falls to 3.
     
  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,055
    Ratings:
    +942
    Kavon Frazier, another Central Michigan safety, could be a target. He's a tweener between SS/FS, but he is always around the ball. He plays with instincts, and does a great job of reading and reacting. Frazier is a more complete player than Jahleel Addae was coming out, in case you believe their games are similar. If anything, Frazier comes in and becomes an immediate contributor on special teams. He was a very good gunner in college, and we could certainly use help on special teams.

    I also like Sean Davis. Played out of position at CB this year, but he's that CF FS you want on this team. Davis has all the physical tools to play the position - 6'1, 200 pounds - runs a 4.46 and put up 21 reps at the combine. Not to mention a top performer in the broad jump - just showcasing his athleticism. Davis needs to do a better job of tackling, sometimes he comes downhill too aggressively and looks to make the 'big hit' and opens himself up to injury and missing tackles. Only real flaw I see in his game, other than that I love everything he can bring to this team.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    He really doesn't. I've spoken with over 3 OL coaches, two of which prep guys for the pros, and all of them agree the Tunsil -> Tyron Smith comps are ridiculous. Tyron Smith, even at his underdeveloped weight when he came out of SC, was a considerably better run-blocker (could actually move guys consistently off a spot) than Tunsil is. Tunsil's closer to Ryan Clady, but a bit less athletic. The popular comparison among the OL coaches I've spoken to is Eugene Monroe, with an outside chance of reaching Trent Williams, but just as good a chance he's not much more than Matt Kalil (who has pretty much underachieved ever since his rookie season).
     
  19. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    Then I guess I have to say, I disagree whole heartedly with those OL coaches.

    I see him as closer to a Jordan Gross, or Joe Thomas, who has always been merely average or above in terms of run blocking, but is an absolute stud pass blocker. I think if/when Tunsil does work out at his pro day you're going to see numbers very similar to Joe Thomas (IE: Sub 5 second 40, 25-30 reps, 32 inch vert etc...) And despite his somewhat finesse style I like the way Tunsil works into the second level quickly, taking angles from LBs and DBs, he may not be a road grader but he is efficient. His technique is nearly perfect, he understands of protections, knows the objective of his assignment, and his hands and feet are constantly moving. I think he's strong enough at the POA to make a top 5 LT in this league.

    I do want to take issue with the idea that Tyron Smith was "considerably" better as a run blocker at SC. If that's the impression people get it's likely due to the fact that Mississippi runs a finesse pass heavy offense, pretty much exclusively from shotgun. How often was he asked to run power and push people off the line of scrimmage? I bet you'd struggle to find more than ONE instance of it in any game. Does that mean he can't? Not necessarily.

    I think this is the second time I've said this to you (or maybe it was someone else) this offseason but I'll say it again anyway because it's appropriate, stop trying to find the perfect prospect. If there was one in this draft he certainly wouldn't fall to 3 anyway. Or maybe he'd fall all the way to 9, like Tyron Smith did. (I'm just telling you it's pointless)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,993
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Tyron Smith was a once in a generation prospect; effectively JJ Watt for OT's. Even Joe Thomas wasn't in Smith's wheelhouse from a pure physical perspective. Tunsil's biggest selling point is his floor - and I'm not going to deny it's an impeccably high floor. I was lower on Russell Okung when he was coming out, but all-the-same Tunsil is more develop technically than Okung was when he was drafted.

    I'm in no way trying to find the perfect prospect. I'm actually in the boat that we (I mean that as a fan base) need to stop attempting to fix this team in a single offseason. I won't, however, overlook optimal fit versus okay fit where its applicable. If this were last year's team, still running a more zone-based blocking scheme under Coach D, Tunsil would be a considerably better fit than he is for the considerably more power-emphasis that Davidsen has been known for.

    Reality is (and I'll fully eat crow if Telesco proves me wrong, but past history tends to favor my POV), they're not going to write off Fluker, or Franklin, so the best hope anyone has is that they write off Dunlap... at which point they're either paying him $6+ million to ride the pine and be depth until he's affordable to release (something they repeatedly refused to do with Clary - and he wasn't even TT's extension IIRC), or they're going relegate the guy they just re-signed to a $6m/yr deal in Barksdale to the bench (because moving either of them to guard relegates one of Fluker or Franklin to the bench).

    People can talk about we can or can't afford to do whatever - I just prefer to operate in the realm of what is (by pretty heavy statistical favor) realistc, rather than pine after pipe dreams and fantasies that typically serve to do little more than piss people off with 'what-could-have-been' revisionist history at later dates.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. MasterOfPuppets

    MasterOfPuppets Charger fan since 1979

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,053
    Ratings:
    +636
    I'd be fine (great even) if they had to "relegate" a now-starter to the bench, that would mean that they're all healthy.

    Draft a C and a T in the first 4 rounds, with the health of this OL the'll play sooner rather than later

    Dream scenario

    1) Buckner
    2-4) C, OT, S
    5) WR, TE
    6,7) P, ILB, Depth
     
  22. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,182
    Ratings:
    +1,031
    Telesco just solved it for you, Dunlap agreed to a pay cut, Could be in line as out swing tackle while we grab our LT in the draft. Pehaps there's more than smoke about the Ti-Toons really coveting Ramsey at 1
     
  23. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    572
    Ratings:
    +242
    Just a few thoughts

    - Read Dallas is on Deforest Buckner now. Wonder if they feel like we're on him and don't want us to trade back to a team who might poach their pick. Basically forcing us to stay at 3 if we really want Buckner and insuring their pick falls to them. Smart

    - Can't wait to see Myles Jack's pro day tomorrow. I think after tomorrow he's gonna be the hot name in the draft. I found it interesting that some teams in the draft questioned Jack on how he would feel playing safety. I see a lot of Thomas Davis in him at LB but he could also play that Kam Chancellor role too. He's my favorite prospect in this draft, I just don't know with our other needs if we could pull the trigger at 3
     
  24. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,182
    Ratings:
    +1,031
    I'm hearing Titans have Ramsey as their number 1 prospect, and are looking heavily to trade down for him, if failing to trade back, they may not be gun shy to take him at 1. Which could give us Tunsil at 3. This is after hearing they prefer Stanley over Tunsil a few weeks back.

    I agree Jack is a phenomenal prospect, but IMO a ILB at 3 would be a wasted pick. I also think the hate has gone too far on Te'o. People on the message boards are slating him as a bust. But once Perryman entered the lineup his play greatly improved. He may never be the player we hoped he would become, but he is a good cover LB that fits in this system. He is also one of the only vocal leaders this team has now on defense.
     
  25. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    Yeah it's BS, Bosa and Ramsey make way too much sense for them considering their needs and Jerry Jones' history. If they throw a wild card at all it'll be Ezekiel Elliot or Myles Jack.
     
  26. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    OR...they know Ramsey makes sense for the Browns, Chargers, Cowboys, and Jaguars and are just baiting someone to trade up. That's exactly what I'd do.

    Tunsil is the opposite of trade bait, the Browns don't need him, the Cowboys have Ty Smith, the Jags drafted Joeckel not that long ago. We're the only real threat to take him and that's just because Dunlap's injury history.

    They could trade back to 4, and still have a legitimate shot at getting Tunsil, or Bosa, or Buckner.
     
  27. Bruce Daniel

    Bruce Daniel BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    572
    Ratings:
    +242
    What if we played Jack at safety? And I'm not one of the guys that dislikes Teo, I think he's decent - great no - but decent. This is also Teo's contract year, what do we do with him? He's not getting a franchise tag and we would risk losing him next offseason. I see Jack as a true 3-down player, whether it be safety or linebacker. He wouldn't have to leave the field, making him an automatic candidate to call plays and take that role over from Weddle
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,182
    Ratings:
    +1,031
    For fun based off of the Ramsey chatter

    OT Laremy Tunsil, Ole Miss
    DE Jonathan Bullard, Florida
    OC Jack Allen, Michgan St.
    TE Jerell Adams, South Carolina
    QB Jacoby Brissett, NC State
    NT Antwaun Woods, USC
    OLB Ian Seau, Nevada
    FS Deon Bush, Miami
     
  29. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    3,182
    Ratings:
    +1,031
    I can also see a scenario where S.F. Trades Kaep to Cle. by swapping firsts and giving up a 2nd which would take away our greatest trade partner
     
  30. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    17,105
    Ratings:
    +3,556
    You mean give up a 2nd round pick, and fall back from 2 to 7, just for Colin Kaepernick?

    Nah way bruh,:cool: way too much for a guy who is a 1 receiver and run QB.
     

Share This Page