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Drew Brees

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by goboilers, Feb 7, 2010.

  1. goboilers

    goboilers BoltTalker

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    Superbowl Champion!!!
    MVP!!! MVP!!! MVP!!!
    :tup::icon_banana::abq2::abq1:
     
  2. scratchnz

    scratchnz BoltTalker

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    Why not...he deserves it!:tup:

    On reflection...good desicion to let him go AJ:tdown:
     
  3. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Are you kidding? You calling going with Rivers a mistake? I'm happy for Drew and his success in NO, but I would pick Rivers over him each and every time.
     
  4. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Right. Because Rivers is the reason we've been losing. :rolleyes:
     
  5. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I would be extremely happy with either.

    We couldn't have gone wrong with that decision.

    In retrospect, choosing between Brees and Rivers was like choosing which super model you want to sleep with.
     
  6. Lightning_Dynasty

    Lightning_Dynasty Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely no better way of putting that.
    :icon_toast:
     
  7. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Your boy rocked it today. Congrats to him & the city of New Orleans. :tup:
     
  8. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    Lots of guys who leave (Brees, Waters) are enjoying post-Charger success. Hope we're there next year.
     
  9. goboilers

    goboilers BoltTalker

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    Thanks man. Wish you guys a Super Bowl in the near future...
     
  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I was one of the most fervent supporters of Brees. Anyone that says going with Rivers was/is a mistake is fooling themselves.
     
  11. sdbound

    sdbound Well-Known Member

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    Brees may have looked like a super model when the string of quarterbacks you’ve just been through are Jim Everett, Craig Whelihan, Ryan Leaf, Moses Moreno, Erik Kramer, and Jim Harbaugh. But the reality is that Brees was just average prior to 2004.
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Right.

    But it wasn't 2004 when we made the decision.

    Furthermore, I said "in retrospect", so what he looked like prior to 2004 is pretty irrelevant to my claim.
     
  13. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.

    I was right along side you and was very heavy on the Brees train in all of those debates.

    But to say it was a dumb move knowing what we know now is being very naive.
     
  14. Brundlefly

    Brundlefly Well-Known Member

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    Hahahahahaha predictable that some people would get on AJ's case about that.
     
  15. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Nail/head
     
  16. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Exactly. Whoever says we should have kept Brees obviously forgot how bad he played in 2003....
     
  17. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the time frame you focus on while posing the question.

    We shouldn't have drafted Rivers. (or any other QB) Yeah, he played bad in 2003...behind an atrocious OL and with pretty much no talent around him save LT.

    BUT...since we did have Rivers and there was doubt about his career the decision in the 2005/2006 offseason was a good one.

    In the end both teams made out like bandits at the QB position.

    Now, if only the Chargers can get a more complete team together.
     
  18. titanfan24

    titanfan24 BoltTalker

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    Its a perception thing. I have ALWAYS been a huge Brees guy and thought it was a shame that he and Marty got the blame for coming up short back in those days.

    From an outsider's perspective, I look at those two moves and can't for the life of me see where San Diego made out better with Norv and Philip, instead of Drew and Marty. At worst, Drew and Marty give you the same result in hindsight.

    Philip is a great QB, I'd take him in a New York Minute for my team, but its curious to see that every guy in that QB/GM cluster at the time (Eli, Ben, Drew) all now have titles and AJ Smith, who made the call to go with Philip, doesn't.

    I think AJ is a great talent evaluator, but a pretty crummy "relationship" General Manager. He lets that ego get in the way a little too much.
     
  19. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    But you can't look at it like that because it suggests that those QBs are solely responsible for winning those rings and Philip is solely responsible for the Chargers not winning one.

    It takes a team to win a game.

    If you want to argue that AJ has failed to put together a Super Bowl caliber team, then ok, but don't argue that going with Rivers over Brees was a bad decision based on ring count because that only attributes a team statistic to individual players.

    Rivers is 10x better than Eli Manning in my opinion. Eli just had a better team around him two years ago and he was good enough to play with them and not give up the win.
     
  20. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Well I would note that

    Eli Manning got hot once and stayed hot for an entire playoff run. But his success involved a miracle play in the playoffs a bit more then his running of the show did. Prior to winning the SB there was NO question Rivers was better, and now that he's turned into the same inconsistent QB he's always been, it's clear that Rivers is better.

    Big Ben wins, no doubt about that. He has some amazing skills. But he doesn't run the offense like Rivers does and Ben also has had a consistently impressive defense and run game to back him up. Rivers hasn't had that since 07 maybe. The offense has run on Rivers since 08 and Big Ben (I personally think) can't make that claim.

    I've said this in other threads but Brees looked to be a solid caretaker and compliment to LT. Alot of people think he got a bump rap in 2003 with a team that was devoid of any talent. But no Charger fan who looks seriously at Drew Brees now saw THAT in San Diego. Brees made a hell of a transformation from caretaker and solid QB to one of the best since being in New Orleans. And at least part of that is Sean Payton's scheme. Not taking anything away from Brees but he's not the same he was in SD.

    Precisely what has marty done since being fired? For all the talk and all the sympathy, there must be a good reason he's never been hired since then.

    I agree AJ hasn't fully put it altogether. We've had issues with each of our runs (injuries in 07, a fluke-ish year in 08 and astonishing immaturity in 09) and part of that obviously falls on the shoulders of AJ (and some on Rivers too). But I do not think that if we kept Brees and traded Rivers that Brees would be as good as he is now nor do I think any Charger fan is upset that we have Rivers.
     
  21. titanfan24

    titanfan24 BoltTalker

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    But that is where I disagree....San Diego from 2006-2008 had the best roster 1-53 in the league. That Giant team in 2007 was inferior to your team the same year.

    I know you guys will never give Eli any credit, but he plays with inferior WR's (especially now minus Plax...remember Kevin Boss and David Tyree were his guys in that Super Bowl), a conservative coach, and is a Mississippi boy who plays in a wind tunnel.

    I'd don't think much changes if you swap the two guys.
     
  22. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Eli and Rivers? Oh I'd say so. Rivers could make those receivers better because he's more consistent, because he's a leader and he's a hell of a lot better accuracy wise. Eli would have better receivers but his issues aren't receiver based as much as its talent and decision making wise. VY has a ton of talent and a great arm but he only improved when his decision making and experience improved. Eli has had all the time as leader he could want and not only does he not lead but he's completely inconsistent.

    Brees might have had success in San Diego in 2006 BUT I don't think we would've won some of the shootout games where we had to rely on Rivers as much as we did on LT. And forget about 2007 (regular season and playoffs)
     
  23. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    But does Rivers really have the best talent around him?

    Everyone who says so is stuck in 2006 IMO

    Outside of Gates and Jackson what superstars does Rivers really have to work with? Malcom Floyd? He's good but he's not elite. Darren Sproles? He's slightly better than Reggie Bush.

    LT is old, he has Norval Turner, and the OL isn't as good as it was two years ago.

    Meanwhile, the defense is hardly that good. Rivera has gotten it better than the Cotrell defense but it's still hardly the defense we saw in 2006.
     
  24. titanfan24

    titanfan24 BoltTalker

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    Some fair points, but I'll still contend that if Eli was playing in the San Diego climate, his passer rating goes up considerably, and if Philip had to play in the Meadowlands, his would go down some. That's probable for any QB. Peyton Manning benefits from it too....he gets 9 indoor games, one in JAX, and if he plays at Tennessee before Thanksgiving, he gets 11 possible great weather games.

    Look at Eli's Sept-Oct splits and then look at his second half splits.......those numbers magically drop off late in the year when the weather changes back east. Does the same for many guys.

    Hey, I think Rivers is a better pure passer myself, but its not a walkoff homerun in that department. The situations, from personnel to weather, are nowhere near close to equal.
     
  25. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Here's the question, though, since it's pertinent to the initial claim.

    Do you think much changes if you swap Brees and Rivers today?
     
  26. titanfan24

    titanfan24 BoltTalker

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    You know, maybe not, but I'm not sure if Rivers fits Sean Payton's system as well. He like guys like Romo and Brees who move around better.

    How's that for not giving an answer......Ant, the lawyer, should love how I gave an answer without actually giving one!!
     
  27. Scott the Rock

    Scott the Rock BoltTalker

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    You guys are forgetting the most important part of the Drew VS Phillip debate. Hello.... his shoulder was torn to pieces!! A major gamble and and in my opinion a no brainer to keep Rivers. Fortunately for Drew his surgery was a major success but I remember having these arguments at that time. Going with our draft pick that was learning the ropes the way it should be was a no brainer.
     
  28. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    The focus is the Chargers, not the Saints. (Because the question is whether or not it was a dumb decision to let Brees walk) so do you think much changes for the Chargers if you swap Brees and Rivers today?
     
  29. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm discussing retrospect, so it's kind of irrelevant to look at it from the actual timeframe in question.
     
  30. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    ^^^^^ THIS

    :yes:


    Rivers is a great QB and our team is close, a consistent contender. For all of the problems we have had, there is no denying that we have a very strong core group and the makings of a Championship team.

    Trust me, I don't think it's all sunshine and roses in Chargerland. I had a good cry about it all today during pregame. It f'ing SUCKS to lose (esp like we did in 06 and 09) and while the losses are frustrating nothing is unfix-able here and everything in me believes we WILL get our championship.Yes with AJ, Yes with Norv, Yes with Philip and Yes, even without LT.
     

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