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ESPN - A history of mistrust - Vick, Atlanta and Racism

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=vicksatlanta

    I decided to put this up because its important and because ESPN did a good job in what they did. At the very least Trumpie, Mondo and MTL will probably agree with the thesis of this report.

    I personally think this is BS: adding my $0.02 in. If I was to be angry about every place Jews have been mistreated in the past, I'd be living in Antartica. The report basically states that because Atlanta has had a tough time with racism back in the Jim Crow era, that Blacks believe in 2007 it really is no different. They refer to this (with the full irony of quoting African American Supreme Court judge Clarence Thomas who is 'not a favorite of blacks') as an electronic lynching. And then for the piece de resistence they quote histories of numerous instances in the history of Atlanta of the lynching/segregation/persecution and murder of African-Americans.

    People see this as a race issue - black QB being persecuted by big bad white system. They see Vick's suspension and being told to avoid training camp as another way of a black man being treated differently then a white man. That's a lot of BS. Vick's crimes are horrible, this isn't a run of the mill DUI or a fight or what not. This is a crime that strikes deep to many people because so many people have dogs as pets (myself included). If this was Peyton or Eli or Tom Brady he'd be ruined just as fast as Vick with the exception that they would have further to fall. And no one would be claiming that the system is persecuting them. This is another attempt I think by people to turn a crime into a rallying cry for more percieved 'racism'.

    And finally I agree innocent til proven guilty. Unfortunately the media and whatnot are very used to convicting someone immediately. I think the charges themselves are horrendous enough that it puts a taint on vick as it would anyone. Let the courts decide but one way or another Vick is tainted no different then Ray Lewis or Kobe Bryant.

    That's my opinion, sorry to rant.
     
  2. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    ANT - PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ***

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20072722/site/newsweek/

    Black and White

    A new study finds that blacks who kill whites are more likely to face execution.

    Aug. 1, 2007 - Is American justice colorblind? A new study finds that blacks on death row convicted of killing whites are more likely to be executed than whites who kill minorities. It also concludes that blacks who kill other minorities are less likely to be executed than blacks who kill whites. The authors of the report say their findings raise serious doubts about claims that the U.S. criminal justice system is colorblind.
     
  3. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    What is your point? Can the majority of convicted black death row inmates be proven innocent beyond doubt? Is there overwhelming evidence against these murderers that are white, yet they don't get the death penalty?

    BTW, some positive stuff:
    Cold-case Convictions

    <!-- KEEP -->1977: Ex-Klansman Robert Chambliss convicted of 1963 church bombing that killed four black girls in Birmingham, Alabama
    1994:
    Byron de la Beckwith convicted in 1963 sniper murder of Mississippi civil rights activist Medgar Evers
    1998:
    Former Klan leader Samuel Bowers convicted in the death of NAACP leader Vernon Dahmer Sr., killed in 1966 firebombing of his Mississippi home
    2001, 2002:
    Thomas Blanton Jr. then Bobby Frank Cherry convicted of involvement in 1963 Birmingham church bombing
    2003:
    Earnest Avants convicted in 1966 slaying of handyman Ben Chester White, purportedly to lure the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to Natchez, Mississippi
    2005:
    Edgar Ray Killen sentenced to 60 years in prison for the 1964 "Mississippi Burning" manslaughter of three civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Mississippi
    2007:
    Former sheriff's deputy and Klansman James Ford Seale convicted in the 1964 deaths of two Mississippi teenagers

    -- Sources: CNN, The Associated Press
     
  4. 17Rocks

    17Rocks Well-Known Member

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    This country is full of racism, it flows freely in all directions and it will always be that way. white people hate black people and black people hate white people and black and white people hate mexicans and Mel Gibson hates jewish people. northerners hate southerners and poor people hate rich people. racism and discrimination is what makes this country tick. if everybody got along we wouldn't need the NAACP and the ACLU and all of the lawyers that go along with it all.

    Now as far as how many people of each race are involved with this hate, I cannot say, but the truth is that some people are out there raising their kids to hate someone because they are different from them.

    I try to take people on a one on one basis and decide if their shiitheads solely based on my experience with them. Racial stereotypes are true to some degree, but they are a poor measure of all people of a given race. Vick is a stupid rich guy who got mixed up in the wrong stuff, did anyone expect for him or his lawyers to not try and play the race card? does anyone think that this would be as big of a deal if he were white?

    A lot of people who are black think that this is not that big of a deal, but there are those that think that it is a big deal. what are the percentages? hell, I don't know and to be truthful about it I really could not care less. The guy broke the law and he should pay the price.
     
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  5. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    The legal system is suppose to be color blind. If that did not hit you between the eyes then jesus I do not know what to say.

    Hello ?
     
  6. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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  7. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    Of course the legal system isn't color blind. Does that automatically prove that the people who are selling ut Vick are lyers, or that he really had nothing to do with it?
     
  8. 17Rocks

    17Rocks Well-Known Member

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    Justice is blind, the legal system is made up of people...we all know how color blind people are...
     
  9. captaind

    captaind Well-Known Member

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    I hate Raiders fans.


    Oh, yeah....and this Michael Vick thing has nothing to do with racism whatsoever. So next card to be thrown will be:

    1) Class warfare card -- Michael Vick is being picked on because he's rich
    2) PC card -- Michael Vick should apologize to all dogs
    3) Global warming card -- Atlanta heat caused Vick to look for hobbies in the cooler climate of Virginia...and what the hell is there to do in Virginia?

    Did I miss any?
     
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  10. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    I hate CNN. Linking to their site doesn't work.
     
  11. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Sure, there's plenty of racism & prejudice to go around. I just don't think that this is a case of it. It's going to be hard for Vick to get a fair shake now if he's found innocent because so many, myself included, have already convicted him.

    BUT....everything is not about race, as our dear Hornblower would seem to want us to believe. And if a person, regardless of color, is found guilty of a crime then they should do the time.

    Thanks for constantly reminding us of the injustices in the world, Trump. Like most of us don't already know.... :icon_shrug:
     
  12. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about selling out?

    What it says is that a black man will not get a fair shake in our legal system. Look at Senator Byrd the ex-clansman jumping all over Vicks dick. If it were Manning, I doubt the Senator is ready to burn Manning at his stake.

    Some here just "ho-hum it" and some profess to know and then there are those who are truly the ignorant. The rest are just white boys who have nothing better than to scream reverse racism yet have a legal system which protects - color......the **** is whacked. Vick's crime does not mean **** because he is basically fuc-ked as a blackman in the legal system - name the crime. The stats show this is no bullshiit on capital crimes alone and the freaking brakes of our justice system does not draw a line there and say fuc-it, timeout, now we apply different "color" rules right down to pissing on the sidewalk.

    It does not matter how many links I post because there will always be the monkeys in the background screaming bullshiit. :yes:
     
  13. SanDiegoRon

    SanDiegoRon BoltTalker

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    bullshitt...
     
  14. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Cheetah say Bullshit!! :lol:
     
  15. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    If you read what set everyone off, which you didn't so you look like another dork, is the premise I posted that Peyton Manning gets this treated differently.

    That twisted a lot of pubes. Too effing bad.

    I did not say Vick is going to be found guilty because he was black but you and a few others sure like to make it seem that way. That is the fuc't part where you people really shine like turds.

    It is the idiots who come out in later posts and have it figured out that I am a racist or I was playing the race card. What I stated was the mother fuc-king obvious. Senator Byrd is not chopping Manning's nuts off on CNN and "condeming his soul to hell".

    Many more got their preflowers twisted when I suggested that and the same results came from me - too effing bad. That was just too much for some. :lol:

    The **** would have been treated much much differently but the posters who had it "figured out", just kept piling it on. Well bring it on because they did not change my mind one IOTA. Nada. Fuc em all is the way I see it. Bottom line. Again, I am not looking for anyone to agree with me and just stating what many may not have the balls to say so "YEAH, I THINK PEYTON MANNING WOULD HAVE HAD THIS **** HANDLED MUCH MUCH DIFFERENTLY" and to some that makes me a racist !!!

    Booyeah .... you gotta love this Kountry. :abq2: :flag:
     
  16. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    I'm not racist, I just hate everyone equally.
     
  17. Boltdiehard

    Boltdiehard Well-Known Member

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    Cool this thread is going to go on for miles. :lol:

    It'll probably still be going when I get back.

    Vick is black, I'm white and I know I'm in the minority but I really don't give a fuc what he did. This **** goes on all over the country yet suddenly everyone is a dog lover and civil rights activist.

    :bolt:
     
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  18. BlueandGold

    BlueandGold The Oracle

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    Oh, I think there's quite a bit of racism flowing here. I'm sure that there are quite a few people out there who hate Mike Vick because he's black, and not because he allegedly murders pit bulls.

    The funny thing is, the article isn't about "United States vs. Michael Vick". It isn't about the legal system at all. It's about the media and the public perception of Michael Vick. The groups supporting Mike Vick in that article are fighting against people that have already "convicted" him in their own minds BECAUSE HE IS BLACK. They are fighting a war on PERCEPTION that will continue as long as racism exists in this country, for which Vick is only the latest front.

    It's a noble fight, but really pointless in relation to Vick's cause. In the end, he will come before a jury of his peers, be duly defended by a hotshot legal team of his choosing, and be judged guilty or innocent based on which team of lawyers best manipulates/obfuscates the evidence. Nobody in that article disputes that. Michael Vick will in fact have a trial, so no, it isn't a "lynching". And hey, Kobe, Michael Jackson, Ray Lewis, and OJ all got off, so being a rich black man isn't the automatic ticket to prison after all.

    And that's the ultimate irony here - that poor men of color, unable to afford superstar legal counsel, may and do get railroaded by a sometimes subtly and sometimes overtly racist legal system, while rich ones like Vick get all the screams of "injustice", from which they may actually be safest of all.
     
  19. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    I'm up in arms because dogs are involved, if he did it he has better things he could be doing, and he could have been more responsible with who he rented his property to. I know you're saying that the media would sweep it under the carpet if Peyton did this, but don't think for a second that I would be any less angry about it. I would be furious that he had given off some BS goody good boy image, while harming dogs in the background. I hate ANYBODY THAT HURTS DOGS. If they are black, yes. If they are white, yes. I'm sure a lot of people out there feel the same, and don't just call it making an excuse. If I found out who ran over my dog and took off I'd probably beat the crap out of them. Just know where I'm coming from, because I know where you are coming from.
     
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  20. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    Trumpey... why do you hate white people?


    I read over your study and found some interesting things:

    1) Reading through it the research is obviously biased, he was looking for a difference and found one. I would of liked a non-bias study done.

    2) There were only 16 states researched and out of that "There was a lot of research, mostly on one or two Southern states" Its hard to judge all the US when you don't even have most of the states, and a lot of your date comes from historically racist states.

    3) The information given didn't really mention the nature of the murder, although certain variables were mentioned. They should of done more research on the matter.

    4) It started from 1976 into the 1990s. However they were unable to tell any changes, whether lives were valued differently as time went on. This hurts the creditability of the argument.

    Finally hate crimes of which "In the United States federal prosecution is possible for hate crimes committed on the basis of a person's race, color, religion, or nation origin when engaging in a federally protected activity. 45 states and the District of Columbia have statutes criminalizing various types of hate crimes. 31 states and the District of Columbia have statutes creating a civil cause of action, in addition to the criminal penalty, for similar acts. 27 states and the District of Columbia have statutes requiring the state to collect hate crime statistics".

    Since the majority of Black VS White crimes are ignored and not classified as hate crimes while the majority of White VS Black are this is an artificial imbalance. Somehow if its against another race it deserves a harsher punishment then if you just hate the person for some other reason. Your right, justice isn't blind, but doesn't just favor white people.

    On a side note, the million man march (the 2nd one) who many joked had more white people (reporters) then black people was full of racism. The news seems to ignore it, however there is a lot of racism in the new black civil rights movement and African-American culture in general.

    One of the speakers of the Million man march, and many others also, were very anti-semitic and preached hate: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/race_relations/race_relations_10-13b.html

    "Louis Farrakhan is the apostle of black racism and anti-semitism. He represents a philosophy of a black nation within a nation. He constantly and perpetually always rants against Jews. He believes, as his nation of Islam believes, that whites do not have a place in the Civil Rights Movement. He believes and says in his newspapers that whites are devils. This is a horrendous occurrence that hate has now gone mainstream with the support of so-called mainstream civil rights leaders and black leaders."

    So I can freely admit there is racism against blacks. However there is just as much, if not stronger, of blacks against white people.
     
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  21. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I said that already about Manning which means you didn't read my first post - if this was a white player (Brett Favre or Peyton Manning) and they were indicted for dog fighting they would fall from grace as much as Vick, if not moreso because they are considered better and to have more prestige then Vick has. The assumption of this article and others is because Atlanta was a racist city of Jim Crow that a black person can not get a fair trial. That's a load of **** and that is what you've been implying trumpie ALOT. All it is to you in this, or I suppose most cases, is the white judicial system coming down on the poor black person.

    I don't deny there's racism in this world, especially white racism against minorities. But this isn't 1960 bub. The actual power of white racism is minimal (especially considering the white racist groups used to run the southern states) and the power against it if you can find proof is staggering. The problem is that WAAAAY too many times the race card is played on BS calls. A black guy doesn't get picked up, racism. Black kids can't pass the same test that asians, whites and latinos can, its racism. Young girls getting knocked up, it was the evil white man. Over and over and over.

    Hell you want a quick case study - most of the same groups supporting Vick were the first to demand that the Duke kids were shot on sight. The NAACP being the primary example. I do agree, everyone gets a fair trial and innocent til proven guilty. I'm saying that this is turning into even more of a circus because of people playing the race card when it should not be played.
     
  22. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    People who hurt dogs, and other animals, are persecuted across America. This isn't just because he is Vick or because he is black. What are they suppose to do, ignore the law? Is he allowed free practice to abuse animals? Put gunpowder in their food in order to make them fighting dogs?

    Murder goes on all over the country too, and many people get away with it. Does that make it right as well?
     
  23. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    KILL WHITEY :icon_eek: :icon_rofl:

    Dude - I laid down a premise that the pasty white boy Manning gets this treated a lot differently and it was on. :yes:

    It was another thread and it still simmers in the bowels of those who read those posts. :icon_rofl:

    Now I just sit back, eat my spaghetti, drink a beer and enjoy the show.

    Now, I hate white people .... it is on again... :icon_party: :icon_banana: :abq2: :flag:
     
  24. Zeus

    Zeus BoltTalker

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    Its the same thing that a lot of these groups who are defending Vick say/are thinking.

    "Why do you hate black people" that is what many think when they see Vick charged. They believe that if he was white, in the media, with a mountain of evidence he wouldn't of been charged.

    The fact of the matter is a lot of people are charged with animal fighting, cruelty to animals etc. Its a big deal not only because he is a big name football player, but because he funded one of the largest dog fighting operations in the United States.
     
  25. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Dude you are such a dick to dance around the fact Senator Byrd is not doing his spin dance for the nation and probably got the heat on Vick's *** again after the local prosecutor got caught jacking off the public with his "there is nothing here - move along speeches"

    Somebody in the government got a royal bug up their *** (which no one here has even speculated as to whom) and Senator Byrd just exposed the head of his wrinkled racist dick to re-kindle the 60's and as the most likely culprit and trigger man to light the cross.

    That is why this **** stinks.

    Not because Vick is black such as nin-compoops such as yourself is trying to paint this but assshooles who serve in government who should have been voted out of office a long time ago but viva West Virginia. Fuc that.

    Next ? :flag:
     
  26. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I hate Byrd more then you can trust me on this one, but this was one of those situations i actually agreed on him with. I do agree that people who fight dogs and then execute those who don't perform have a special level of hell waiting for them in the afterlife. That Byrd said that does NOT mean there's a giant white man conspiracy any more then if Barack Obama would've said this or Mel Martinez. Byrd is also not the prosecutor, has no power to demand charges be filed against him (that's the prosecutor's job), can not influence this case in a very noticeable way even in threats of another job since it is the SENATE's job to handle all future judges for the superior court system. So to suggest he wants to relight the crosses because he made one comment is a stretch even for you trumpie.

    And Manning would not be treated as anything different except they'd call him a dumbass ****ing hick ***** down from the tennessee mountains that ****s his sister. Sort of how we refer to Eli :lol:
     
  27. Thread_Killer

    Thread_Killer Well-Known Member

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    Trumpy has a point about race being an issue. If this were Peyton Manning, I don’t think the public outcry would be nearly as prevalent.

    And negative publicity is the driving force behind the actions of both Blank and Goodell. If nobody was rising up in protest over the allegations directed at Michael Vick, he’d still be allowed to play.

    That said, I'm not willing to go so far as to say that Peyton Manning would get off scot-free. But I wonder if he would be pursued as vehemently as Michael Vick is.
     
  28. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    IFFFF
    it was Peyton Manning
    AND
    it was something OTHER then dog fighting

    I MAYBE would agree

    not this crime
     
  29. Trumpet_Man

    Trumpet_Man Well-Known Member

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    Are you that fuc-king dense to not even acknowledge that Senator Byrd was way WRONG to even be speaking out about this ****??? He was not the right man to do it and precipitates why I said what I said so that much should be obvious.

    Do you not find it HIGHLY suspect as an attorney to be that a United States Senator (of his past reputation) has decided to "suddenly" speak out about this heinous crime against - a fuc-king dog yet Senator Byrd will not fight in a foxhole with a blackman to save his country? How many times has this Senator given a rats *** about the NFL in the past? Not many I would imagine unless he had his boy for his cross burning. :yes: :flag:
     
  30. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    Maybe he felt he was able to say it since he can't influence it at all? Or maybe he wants to be known in a good way (dog lover)?
     

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