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ESPN: Te'o one of the NFLs most disliked players

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Oct 22, 2013.

  1. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    If only we'd had someone picking intelligently in the draft at the time.... :mad: then you and I could just agree instead of all that messy disagreeing... DAMN YOU AJ!
     
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Touché, Syd, re. the 3rd. Now I'm thinking that it was the ("I have one tackle") Mouton pick in '11,
    so I hereby rescind my "that makes me feel a bit better" comment.

    Well, even if we disagree, feel free to call me names. ;) I'm chill with that! :whistling:
     
  3. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    The hate for Cro began for most people before the same play the brave Weddle got trucked

    It began when Weddle complained of getting snubbed by Cro on a TD celebration. SD fans hated that and SD media fanned it....without bothering much to notice that Cro wasn't in the end zone before Weddle wanted to do a cheer-leading routine with him. He was quickly labeled a locker room cancer with the help of Weddle-who was happy to talk to the press about it. The media went as far as trying to get Jammer to pile on and used his cautious response (I think every black athlete is taught to be careful in these matters...see Isaiah Thomas being asked to talk schit about Rodman) as proof that Cro was a cancer. Then came the injury year and all of a sudden he was a bust who needed to be shipped out of town. Memory holes are interesting when it comes to hate. Not many people remember that the false story of dumping babies from incubators was the number one media driven emotion builder for attacking Iraq (the first go) and believe that the after reasons given were there from the beginning. In fact, most people don't even remember the story at all....just like they don't remember the Weddle beef and think they started hating Cro after he seemingly pulled up on a running back.

    Were this hate merely about that one play, why then isn't it universal? The beloved LT sure seemed to be pulling up at the line quite a bit before he was finally let go and when the small minority pointed this out, there were plenty of excuses about how they sympathized with him for having to "run up the middle" for Norv all the time. The charge is subjective but the reactions weren't. Worse, he had balls bouncing off his helmet because he wasn't prepared...once PR actually threw it hard at the back of his head, intentionally wasting the play so he could then yell at him. From what I can tell, people hate him for having mutiple baby mamas as much as him not getting ran over a running back

    Receivers stop short on routes, linemen take off plays and I don't excuse any of it...but there at least three sites I know of with multiple people expressing everything from hoping Cro he ends up injured broke or dead. Not sure why people hating are so insulted by the word.

    On the role of a corner back...if you have a guy who can take away the other team's number one receiver, it doesn't matter if never touches a running back. That guy is infinitely more valuable than a 50 percent cb who can act like a safety. Cro is and has been better than every corner the Chargers have had since maybe Jammer was good for 3 years. An I'd take him now over Jammer's best days.
     
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  4. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Gotta admit, I expect to see some interesting things in Bolt Talk, but "dumping babies from incubators"
    definitely caught me napping. (though, re. cheerleading towards a war, yes, it unfortunately happened).

    I agree that there are a lot of racial things that we--as a society--shy from looking right in the eye,
    and yes, they definitely touch sports as well. (go to PFT if you want to see every conceivable--and inconceivable--
    reason imaginable, why Native-Americans should love being called Redskins).

    I'm not African-American, so I may not pay as close attention as some others might
    (since one of my favorite things about pro football that it tends to be more of a true meritocracy than just about any other
    profession in America)
    to the situation you described...but my sense was that Cro was vilified, here, mostly for not hitting
     
  5. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    You sound like a reasonable person and must know that because you are reasonable, your sense for how it started may be manufactured? I'm not above it at all but it just so happens that I was paying attention to this issue from the angle you appreciated above right when the "snubbing" incident occurred. Hate will use logic to justify itself and even those without that dog in the fight will tend to a accept ad populum. So where others (hell, LT is black) get away with things, others are singled out for them...it doesn't mean those things didn't happen or that they are not bad but what I'm saying is that it would have been something else topping the "reasonable" explanation for hating him.

    *edit* Please start that Redskins thread! I'll participate!
     
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  6. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Oh, I absolutely appreciate your logic (though I am a fallacy snob who still prefers my ad populums be italicized) :roflmao:
    and reasonable approach. Never enough calm, fact-based commentary for me. :)

    For what it's worth, I do think AC's early recklessness with his seed fed racial stereotypes for some,
    and that seems likely to be one of the reasons these two guys (LT & AC) got very different treatment.

    That said, in this particular case, what Syd called the olé moment, in January of 2010, really was the biggest thing...imho

    http://thebiglead.com/2010/01/22/an...st-the-jets-on-two-crucial-4th-quarter-plays/

    *edit* No dice on the Redskins thread! PFT posters (on this topic) sound like my Granddad 50 years ago...
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  7. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    Not sure if this a new account for you here (since it says you just joined last month) so I don't know if you're talking about BT or just the Charger community at large, but I don't remember the hate for Cro around here being centered around his issues with Weddle. It was by and large for his play on the field (again, hesitancy to make contact and his struggles when injured but we didn't really know how seriously until later) and the 7 or 8 kids with nearly as many women. I'm pretty sure had he been tearing it up on the field, the latter would have been used less frequently as a punchline.

    From what I remember there was quite a bit more to the Cro/Weddle "relationship" and I'm not basing that on media reports but from folks I know who worked at Chargers Park. I don't recall it being quite the media scandal you're saying it was nor the way the actual story played out myself but it's been a few years - so I could be wrong - it's been known to happen :p

    As for why LT wasn't demonized? Well - he was and not in a minor way either... but he'd also EARNED some leeway - being one of the greatest players at your position in the history of the NFL will do that for you. See the reaction to Gates vs. Mathews goal line fumbles for a perfect example of the phenomenon ^.^

    The folks who honestly wish serious injury and/or death on any athlete are ******* lunatics and sadly the internets gives the lowest common denominator equal access to a soapbox as it does the rational and the reasonable. I can't speak to any other forums but BT - so maybe there was a racial element to it elsewhere but I certainly don't recall that being the case here.
     
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  8. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Cool to all that but if I can leave a last suggestion regarding your last paragraph...Suppose there were a fair amount of "lunatics" racially (knowingly or unknowingly) hating Cromartie for whatever reason they could make stick and their voices merged with those who cringed when he pulled up on a running back. Can you see how the latter's cringe could become a very large snowball of righteous hate? You'll get a lot of backing from lunatics if it helps feed them but their supposed opinions don't lend (or take away) any validity.
     
  9. Savage Lizard

    Savage Lizard Charger fan at 7000'

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    The luckiest man in America, AND my most disliked player, is ECry Manning. He is an Assante Samuel drop and a Wes Welker drop from being an 0-2 failure in the Super Bowl. Instead he's 2-0, was handed MVPs twice by the Manning worshipping media, and there are dumbasses who think he's better than his brother.
     
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  10. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    I get what you're saying but at the end of the day, I can't control lunatics (nor would I want to - being a mod was har enough :)

    While I would never condone wishing true harm upon the guy or racists remarks (that's vile), I'm not interested in forgetting about his transgressions just b/c other people are mean. I'm glad he's gone, I think he's a joke and beyond that I couldn't care less about what he does unless or until it effects me/my team.

    My opinions around his having kids with multiple women are strictly based around my personal opinions on the responsibilities of parents to care/provide for their children - last I'd heard he'd taken steps to correct his failings there and I respect that - all that matters to me is that people take responsibility for their children ya know? Their kids deserve nothing less.
     
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  11. Lightning's Girl

    Lightning's Girl Mod Chick =) Staff Member Moderator

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    At best, Cromartie was inconsistent with his play, which put him on my personal "dislike" list. I also have issues with a guy who goes around knocking up every woman stupid enough to sleep with him.....but then, if you're stupid enough to sleep with a guy who does that and you don't use birth control, you're as much to blame as he is IMHO.

    As for the list.....Brady and Romo belong on there mainly they're pretty boys with big egos, and everybody hates pretty boys with big egos. Jay Cutler is a POS. Suh should have been kicked out of the NFL a long time ago. And Vick....well, I'm sorry but I for one cannot get past the dogfighting issue. Sure, he did his time, but there are some things that are simply unforgiveable and what he did to those poor animals is one of them.

    I may be right or I may be wrong, but in my world, there are three things you don't F with: children, the elderly, and animals. What kind of message did it send to the rest of the world to welcome Vick back to the NFL with open arms? It would've been fine if he'd simply been quietly released from prison and gone back to whatever it is he knows how to do besides be a quarterback. But again, there are some crimes that should result in being banned from professional sports for life. Look at Pete Rose......the guy did nothing violent, he didn't do drugs, he never harmed a living creature, but he got banned from baseball and can't get into the Hall of Fame. You mean to tell me Michael Vick is a better man who deserves a better fate than Pete Rose? :poop:

    Climbing down off soapbox now.
     
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  12. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    It can't be reasonable dislike which makes people think Cromartie is bad corner. I hate defending the ad hominem about his kids because it gives credit to the fallacy but.....his baby mommas and his kids are all doing fine and are provided for through college.
     
  13. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    As I've said before, the few times I had occasion to chat with AC, he seemed very nice,
    if a bit self-conscious. My experiences definitely led me to think there was something
    to the stories of him being just a bit slow. Not hugely...(not with today's playbooks)...
    but enough to make me wonder if it contributed to his early troubles with pregnancies.
    That alone made me more sympathetic than most...although I'm definitely not above making a cheap "100 children" type joke (as Tiff R. will attest). :)

    Rarely do you see a guy turn his personal failings around as well as Antonio has...
    http://suporte-robot-posters.us.tf/...ess-manager-forbes-business-news-google-news/
    and that carries a lot of weight with me too.

    And, given my position, when I hear AC's explanation of that infamous Hard Knocks clip,
    vs. the NFL Films version, I'm more inclined to believe Antonio...I don't think HBO has any beef with AC,
    but in this case I think it was edited to make it look like AC couldn't remember his kids...it's just better TV...

    Screen Shot 2013-10-24 at 9.29.00 PM.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
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  14. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    What's funny about that incident of hard knocks is that even if hbo were presenting it exactly the way it looks, it's no reason to hate him and even if one couldn't help from hating him for it, there's no reason THAT should add to reasons of totality for why he's a bad corner.
     
  15. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    When I first saw Cromartie's explanation
    http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/24007729

    I just thought, "Hmmm...someone is lying...and I have this bad feeling that a director would be
    salivating at getting that second take..." And given what I said before, about AC not really presenting
    himself as a Rhodes Scholar, HBO's part in this would take on a pretty ugly tone. Bottom line: someone is lying...
    I don't claim to know who...but if I were forced to wager, my money would be on HBO going for the "great TV!!"

    And, of course, even if that isn't right, it has nothing at all to do with his abilities as a corner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
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  16. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    I try to avoid anecdotal and convincing appeals because it diverts from the point but I agree with you even if I didn't happen to know producers who were privy to the reality show they were pitching to Cro after that incident. He may be "slow" but he's not a permanent fool without dignity...Apparently, he said that because all his baby mommas and kids got a long, he was worried that the producers would try to make it interesting by creating unneeded drama the way hbo did.
     
  17. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, there's a reason "Anecdotal Evidence" is on that fallacy list!

    But used judiciously, anecdotes can be useful. I know I have a different take on AC
    than most fans do, but I also think it's 50% because of my personal impression of him as a person...
    (the rest is largely that I prefer a more logic-based approach to the world than do most) which puts me in a small, small minority of NFL fans...
     
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  18. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I love the smell of football in the morning.

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    ^^^ I just didn't like his # on his uniform... I mean, to a dyslexic person 31 could be construed as a gangsta number 13...
     
  19. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Now that you mention it, name on his uni looked a little non-regulation, too...
    Screen Shot 2013-10-24 at 11.13.36 PM.png
     
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  20. EOTL

    EOTL BoltTalker

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    Never really had an issue with Cromartie aside from (as many mentioned above) his poor tackling and when he gave up on that run play vs. the Jets. But, as also mentioned above, physicality was never his strong suit, so it was just painful to see him give up those 5-7 yard dig routes every other play and allow opposing offenses to slowly march their way downfield week after week.
     
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