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food for thought on our ilbs

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by charger1993, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    If Perryman keeps getting playing time. He's gonna replace manti or butler.. From what I'd read on the web he seems to be impressing the coaches with his consistency.
     
  2. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    The sooner the better.
     
  3. Slam

    Slam BoltTalker

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    I've been doing a lot of highly sophisticated simulation of games and studying the outcomes to try to extrapolate further nuances in our game play and perhaps try to bring something new to the discussion. In short I've been playing Madden 16 on the PS4 and the few things I can say is...

    whoever I played against knew how to use the Chargers. I was Seattle, and he abused the outside edge with Gordon pitches, and some HB Draws and outside flicks with fakes, and all kinds of schemes to get Gordon the ball outside. Someone get Azzwhooping622 the clipboard, step aside Frank Reich, this is how it's done.

    After he got me chomping at the run, I'd get exposed to a 1 on 1 Keenan Allen passes getting burned for a huge play.


    On defense, as no shock to you. I was able to shove it up his throat with the run, borderline unstoppable. Once he plugged up the middle, it was hard to out run the edge due to the corners and safeties.

    As far as passing goes, yikes, passes batted down and getting intercepted (3) by Flowers. The ILB's were getting to Russell on the blitzes and forcing bad passes or made him go on the run.

    So most of this stuff you guys already know.


    But I felt I should bring some actual science to the conversation. Lastly it doesn't help playing vs. seahawks to simulate a Steelers game, but let's be honest Wilson > Vick, although similar style.
     
  4. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Despite all the missed tackles, at least Te'o is in the right position most of the time. Butler doesn't even react to put himself in position to make the play. Right now, I'd rather have Perryman replace Butler, and pray that Te'0 can improved his tackling technique.
     
  5. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok I am going to take some flak on this... But...

    Teo is not playing all that bad. Some of the 'missed' tackles he was getting called out on were well behind the line of scrimmage where he slowed the ball carrier allowed for others to get a tackle for a loss. He has also made some good plays and tackles. Is he 'Seau' level.... Oh hale nah! But he is good and getting better...

    Butler... SMH... Tentative... should never be played in coverage on a WR. Backup LB... Perryman should split snaps with him until we determine (1 or 2 games) that Perryman is the better of the two then switch Butler to back up.

    This D is close to being really good. I agree with Pags, we dont need to lead the league in sacks. We need to hit QBs, even if that is a slap at them that moves them out of the pocket it adds up. Watch the games we beat Manning when he was the Colts. He was not sacked a lot. He was moved out of his comfort zone, pushed, nudged and frustrated. We have the players to do this. We need the secondary to trust one another and maintain coverage for it all to click. We are close though...

    Ok... Let me have it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You are not going to call for the Thunder Hammer Defense are you!?!

    ;)
     
  7. Slam

    Slam BoltTalker

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    thunder hammer defense every down crew, and select the CB and CB blitz, works like a charm...errr.... sometimes
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Te'o is so frustrating; he's making tackles but he could be all world if he stopped missing tackles. He clearly has great instincts and has made big strides from being tentative and unsure last two years. But man alive how many plays could've been 2nd or 3rd and long had Te'o WRAPPED UP THE BALL CARRIER on the first hit. Scarily I'm not as worried about him.

    Butler played well one game and I really haven't been impressed since. I agree with everyone that he needs to start splitting time with Perryman immediately.

    The only thing that concerns me about this ILB core is you don't have a cover guy. Connor is just the same as Butler in terms of his strengths. no one in our LB corps is a Donnie Edwards who is best in coverage.
     
  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ant. Lets do this. I run at you, you tackle me. If you don't properly wrap up because of the application of physics, then you cut him some slack.... Ummmm kay?

    ;)
     
  10. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    See I'm fine with perryman taking over butler. I mean between teo and butler if take teo. He can at least play coverage to make up for some missed tackles. But at the same time I'm not gonna jump the gun and just declare Perelman automatically better. But I do see some upside and better ability to stop the run. He's definitely making me a homer for sure
     
  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Butler is indecisive and lets the opposing player get the advantage..... that's always a losing battle. You have to read and react quickly to win your one on one battles. That doesn't mean you'll always make the play, but you have to at least put yourself in position to make a play..... Butler isn't doing that. That's why Perryman needs to be given a chance. He can hardly do worse.
     
  12. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I disagree with most of what you have said here.

    In my view, Te'o is playing poorly and is simply not a starting caliber ILB in the NFL. I think an ILB in the NFL can get away with being either not all that fast or not all that stout, but not both and that is Te'o's problem. He lacks both speed and strength by NFL standards. He is probably about 98% through his learning/developmental curve as well. This is probably the best version of Te'o we are ever going to see and it is not a good one.

    Those missed TFLs that you dismiss are often key to stopping drives. A TFL for -3 or -4 yards has the same value as a sack. It matters when those get missed as do the many other missed tackles of which Te'o is guilty. The best that I can say about Te'o is that he is just fast enough and with just enough instincts to be average at best in pass coverage. He is below average in every other aspect of his game and sometimes considerably below average.

    Once upon a time, Butler was above average in terms of stoutness and speed. I wish I knew what happened to that player. Now, he is average in terms of stoutness and below average in terms of speed and pass coverage.

    I think we should play Perryman and that he will easily be our best ILB within one year if not sooner.

    I do not believe that the defense is close to being really good. It is closer to being really bad than it is to being really good. Our run defense is terrible, a very strong contender for the absolute worst run defense in the NFL and we do not have the players on the roster to make it good. With Carrethers and Perryman in the game, the run defense is less bad, but it is not good. (Maybe the run defense could be good if we went with Liuget-Carrethers-Lissemore up front and went with Conner and Perryman in the middle.)

    The pass defense is not as good so far this year as it was last year. Flowers, in particular, has been nowhere close to as good as he was last year and even Verrett has not quite been as sharp as we have seen him be. Robinson has been a pleasant surprise and has been our most consistent pass defender (actually outplaying Flowers), but he is clearly not an elite player. S. Williams has been inconsistent in his play.

    I couldn't disagree more with Pagano's assertion that sacks are overrated. They are actually very underrated. It is nothing short of idiotic to think that a defense that gets sacks will not also be getting the lesser result of pressures that Pagano believes to be important.

    I see Pagano's comments as excuse making for a defense that is usually inept at generating meaningful QB pressure. Wade Phillips has the right idea about this. His concept is that the QB can't hurt you if he laying flat on his back.

    Look at Denver's pass defense: #1 in sacks, #1 in passing yards allowed per game, #1 in passing TDs allowed, #3 in QB rating against, #3 in yards per attempt against, #3 in INTs. Opposing QBs don't have the time to do anything against the pass rush. That they are #1 in sacks is evidence of the consistent pressure being generated. They are doing the greater of getting sacks, so, of course, they are capable of doing the lesser of only getting pressures.

    That's where our DC should want the defense. A team that leads the league in sacks has a special pass rush. Lesser is not okay. Being the best should always be the goal. Pagano is talking nonsense with his comments.
     
  13. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit... ManCrusher disagrees with something. Who woulda thunk et?
     
  14. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    I thought you'd never ask sugar! Temecula to San Marcos, not too far :p
     
    • Funny Funny x 1

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