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Fox Sports: Lions are taking offers for the #2 spot in the draft

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by AnteaterCharger, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    What would it take to get that from the Lions? Who and what draft picks? and would it be worth it?
     
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  2. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    From where we are in the draft, it would be nearly impossible to get that pick.
     
  3. P88F

    P88F BoltTalker

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    we already know they will be drafting a WR :icon_rofl:
     
  4. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    It would take Turner or the #1 we will get for him, our #1 this year, and either another player or our #1 from next year. I would give them Kiel, Turner\Pick, and our #1, hell I'll even toss in Steve Crosby to sweeten the pot. :helm1:
     
  5. reddenedbeard

    reddenedbeard Well-Known Member

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    They have so many needs .. what are they looking for (besides a WR) ..
     
  6. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    No thank you! :no:
     
  7. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Here's what I'm thinking
    Turner
    Drayton Florence
    Mike Goff
    our #1 and 2nd this year
    a second next year
     
  8. BlueandGold

    BlueandGold The Oracle

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    The most I give up is Turner, Kiel, and our #30. And I'd still have to think about it. Turner could bring a HUGE return for us if someone signs him on a 1/3 tender.

    Any more than that and they can KMA.
     
  9. loweezy

    loweezy BoltTalker

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    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/mosd3f/DraftValueChart.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

    The 2nd pick according to this chart is worth 2600 points. Our 30th pick is worth 620.

    We'd have to then make up another 1980 points. I don't think Turner is worth a top 10 pick or more than (1000 points). But who knows with how desperate the lions are.

    I think it would ultimately take an insane deal to pull this off though. And AJ values his draft picks very greatly.

    Stop dreaming! :icon_rofl:
     
  10. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    no thank you. :no:
     
  11. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    :icon_eek:

    No way I want to give up that much for a rookie WR. NO NO NO NO NO. Who are we? The New York Giants?
     
  12. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    have you done any hw on johnson? calling him eli manning shows you don't know what's going on.

    besides i'm posing a hypothetical because its dull here today
     
  13. loweezy

    loweezy BoltTalker

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    Wow. So you'd want to lose another guard?

    I know there are going to be changes on the line if Dielman leaves, and you're considering giving up another guard on one of the best offensive lines in football in the past year?

    Turner is probably as good as gone after this year. Goff is aging, but I'd hate to lose both starting guards.

    On top of that, you're throwing in Drayton. Our #1 this year, our #2 this year, and our #2 next year.

    That would leave us with, a bunch of needs, and Calvin Johnson. AJ would HAVE to have a pretty busy offseason in signing free agents to fill all the holes you created.

    1. We'd need a nickelback
    2. We'd need a replacement for Dielman if he leaves and Goff. If any of our reserves can step in, we'd still need depth on the O-line
    3. We'd need a backup runningback
    4. We'd still need a safety
    5. We'd still need some linebacker depth
    6. Last of all, we probably need to add depth along the D-line as well.

    And we'd have 2 first day picks (pair of 3rd rounders), and a plethora of 2nd day picks to do it.

    Doesn't sound very ideal to me.
     
  14. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    I'm not calling Johnson Eli, I'm calling him a question mark. And I'm trying to suggest that your package would be a gross overpayment for a rookie wide receiver (like the Giants grossly overpayed for their Rookie QB). I don't care how much film you watch, or stats and numbers you read, until the guy steps onto an NFL field and puts up he's a question mark. Top billed WRs flop on an annual basis. Has there been a rookie WR since Moss who was the unanimous top WR to really explode into the NFL? Boldin had a great rookie season, after being picked up in the second round. Colston had a great year... coming out of the 7th round. But neither you nor anyone else has evidence or data that guarantees Johnson will be a success. Three first days picks, a RB who would start on any other team, a starting OG, and starting CB would be an insane trade for a rookie WR.
     
  15. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Ant was saying he wanted to make that trade, I think he was simply stating what it'd probably take to get the #2...or at least I hope that's the case.
     
  16. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    that's what i was offering and yes I was willing to lose another guard, and one that almost no one on this board likes but has a high value, for the PREMIER WR prospect in the draft. Yes he's a ? yes he hasn't proven anything but I'm willing to take the risk because we need few things but the primary that almost EVERYONE agrees is a true game breaking #1 receiver. Tell me that johnson isn't hte prototype of that
     
  17. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    its worth it because then we get Calvin Johnson and give our offense some fine tuning:tup: :tup: :abq1:
     
  18. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    If we sign Dieman up quickly then we can afford to lose goff
     
  19. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but is he worth giving up that much for?
     
  20. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    yeah he is because he can give our offense that final spark to get to the Superbowl and will give Phillip Rivers a genuine target to go along side Gates:tup:
     
  21. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    Gonna be tough for Rivers to get the ball out without a qualified OG on the roster, don't ya think? :icon_huh:

    BTW I know your stance is kinda predicated on resigning Deilman, I just think that's almost an impossibility at this point... :unsure:
     
  22. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    What's harder to find? A good guard or a physical freak at WR?? Which is worth more? Which would you like to acquire more? Which is worth giving up more for?
    You can find sufficient good guards (Derrick Dockery from Washington, Ross Verba, Damien Woody) in FA or (Manuel Ramirez, any of the Auburn guards, Blalock) in the draft. A guy like Johnson would be the same as acquiring Reggie Bush
     
  23. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    I'm not sure that I totally agree with the Reggie Bush comparisson, but I can appreciate the sentiment. I certianly agree that Johnson is the most talented player in this years draft. And if it were just a matter of what is easier to replace an elite WR or a decent OG it would be a no brainer. Hell I'd give up Dielman and Goff in a heartbeat if that's all it would take to put Johnson on our squad. But it's not, you gotta consider the context. Loweezy is right in that the suggested package would create needs for at least three other positions, while simultaneously reducing the number of players we'll be able to get out of the draft (and next years draft for that matter). And while there may be guards available, we are all familiar with AJs frugality when it comes to FAs. Also I am a believer in the notion of chemistry on the offensive line and I think replacing two interior lineman would likely be a setback.

    The biggest objection in my mind is history. I can think of very few instances in which a team traded up and got their moneys worth. But I can think of several that have proved disasterous. When you become totally enamored with and intent on aquiring one guy it's like puting blinders on. You totally lose perspective on how uncertian his future and obsess on getting what you want (I don't mean "you" as in ANT, but rather the all inclusive, royal "you"). It just seems to me that historically the teams that trade back make out much better than the teams that trade up.

    Additionally I just wanna say that I'm sorry if anything in my demenor comes accross as dismissive or disrespectful. I fully appreciate a thread like this on a slow morning, I just strongly oppose the suggested trade package.
     
  24. BoltsFanUK

    BoltsFanUK Well-Known Member

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    yeah but if we get Calvin Johnson, we could pick up OG's in either the later rounds of the draft or from FA
     
  25. loweezy

    loweezy BoltTalker

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    How can we find sufficient guards in the draft if you're giving away the best of our 1st day picks? I don't think we should fill holes by creating more holes. Sure, how difficult can it be to find a nickelback, a safety, and two starting guards? The very thought of this, goes away from everything AJ has worked hard for. Building through the draft, and grooming talent.
     
  26. foober

    foober BoltTalker

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    I can see the raiters trading their first pick for detroits 2nd pick.:icon_tease: :icon_eek:

    Both those ball clubs are so on top of things.:lol:
     
  27. loweezy

    loweezy BoltTalker

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    I think you are all dismissing how important Dielman and Goff are to this team.

    I think it is very likely we lose Dielman, which would make this a near impossibility to have our offensive line produce at the same level as it did in 2006, and now you are saying that a 3rd round pick or a 2nd day pick can easily fill the hole?

    To me, Dielman would be leaving a huge void at OG. And if the Chargers have any intent on being as dominant running the ball as they were last year, then OG is simply not something we can hand over to a rookie.
     
  28. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Dielman is a big void no question but I still think we can find quality guards who can play MUCH easier then freaks at WR. Dielman was a UDFA, Jahri Evans is a 4th rounder, Damien Woody was a 6th, Stephen Neal was a 3rd, Joe Andruzzi was a 5th. There are good guards avaliable throughout a draft that won't be hard to find. Insanely good #1 WRs are almost impossible to find further down, how many can you find past the second when you can find dozens of good guards down there. I'm just wondering again which is easier and which would be more beneficial to us.
     
  29. BlueandGold

    BlueandGold The Oracle

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    Right on.

    It's been probably on the order of multiple decades since we've had an OL this good. And folks want to dismantle it for a shot at a draft pick?

    No way.

    Dielman's a painful enough loss, if in fact we lose him. Losing Goff would make it crippling. Goff's not even the problem on his side of the line - it's Olivea, who has issues when facing speed rushers.

    Skill players sell tickets, but the BEEF wins you games.
     
  30. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    So we less need a pair of guards but a rg and a rt (move Olivea to LG). That's slightly more difficult but not impossible. Again find a tackle in FA or a guard in the draft or vice versa. Try tis

    1. Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech
    3a. Tim Duckworth OG auburb
    3b. James Martin OT Boston College

    acquire: Derrick Dockery OG from the Redskins
    ta-dah problem fixed

    LT: McNeil
    LG: Olivea
    C: Hardwick
    RG: Dockery
    RT Martin
     

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