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Free Agency 2013

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by SuperCharger92, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Well for one, I'm not going to assume that Brandon Taylor is automatically looked at as the SSotF by the new administration - that was AJ's pick, not Telesco's. Obviously Pagano would have a say in things, but Taylor was active for how many actual games last season? So you have to wonder how much Pagano has actually had the opportunity to work with him (and that it wasn't just Meeks, and Taylor working in with the ST unit as much as the first and second team defense). Ideally, I'd want Jairus Byrd, but he's likely beyond our reach. Either Jammer re-signed and converted or Kerry Rhodes would be my ideal stop-gaps, But I'm not terribly opposed if the BPA value is there to committing a mid-round pick to a safety (because this class has really good depth) as realistically with Weddle's contract being what it is, we're not going to be able to afford to pay two safeties top-tier safety money, so as long as Weddle's on that pay-tier we're likely going to have to pair a guy on a rookie contract with him (as there's higher upside than a journeyman).

    Oh, and God willing if we do decide to play press-man coverage (Denver did, so there's hope that Milus implements it), I want want WANT Bradley Fletcher.
     
  2. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Ideal for me would be Matt Elam, even as a rookie I have a feeling this kid is going to be an instant impact player in the NFL.

    But I fully support the Jammer to SS idea.
    Jarius Byrd would be an amazing addition, but your right he's probably going to want Weddle money.
     
  3. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I think Matt Elam's overrated by a lot of people. Again, people like him because he hits like Jack Tatum, but his tackling technique is sub-par, his coverage skills aren't really that great, and he's kind of undersized (which will be much more noticeable as a pro when he's asked to cover 6'5" TE's and slot receivers that aren't 5'10" or shorter. Among the safeties in this draft, I'd take Reid, Jefferson (if we're going to go for the undersized guy, go for the one with better instincts and who has a higher football IQ), Phillip Thomas, and DJ Swearinger over Elam (possibly Baccari Rambo as well) and the value presented in taking Micah Hyde in say the 5th round versus investing a 2nd or 3rd in Elam is tremendously better in the case of Hyde.

    Swearinger is the guy I really like as a sleeper optin in the 3rd, though he could boost his stock some if teams become convinced he can play CB (I think he could, but like Earl Thomas his fit and ceiling is higher as a safety).
     
  4. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Well he's not undersized, at 5'10 203 he's exactly the same size as Jarius Byrd, in the same ballpark as Earl Thomas, Troy Polamalu, TJ Ward, Ed Reed, Eric Weddle etc... and built just the same, its the way these hybrid safeties are going these days. (your boy Swearinger as well). And I disagree on the coverage thing, he goes man up vs slot receivers very often and more than holds his own, and he does a good job of turning to find the ball. I just see a natural instinct there, a desire to hit people, versatility, as well as a knack for getting his hands on the ball, that I can't say anyone else in this class possesses all 3.

    You want a coverage liability? Sign Kerry Rhodes.
     
  5. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Someone that's standing out to me in these Senior Bowl practices - where my biggest knock on him was level of competition faced while at Florida International - is Jonathan Cyprien. This kid if moving up my board and fast. He's that stick-his-nose in there, physical hitter that you like, but his tackling technique is cleaner than Elam's is (he doesn't just lower the shoulder and go for the jarring hit like too many college SS's are content to do - a bad habit that gets carried to the pro's). He's also got visibly larger hands and longer arms than Elam has (more than his additional 2" in height suggest he ought to and that's assuming Elam is a legit 5'10" which he doesn't really look and Florida is notorious for rounding-up and fudging their numbers in their player guide - e.g. Tim Tebow at 6'4" when he was really slightly shorter than 6'2.5").
     
  6. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I like Phillip Thomas as well, but do you really think taking another safety back to back years is good? He will most likely go in the 2nd. I'd rather sign a FA for a few games and hope Taylor can get healthy.
     
  7. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    It's a REALLY deep safety class. I really have trouble seeing more than 3 going per round, 4 at absolute most. Vaccaro's really the only one I'd put a remote 1st round grade on and even then it's a low 1st simply because there are better players at more premium positions that are going to push him down the board (and should). The thing is the difference between the top safety prospect in this class and the 8th or 9th safety in this class (when you start factoring in CB's making the position switch like Micah Hyde and potentially David Amerson) isn't all that huge. There are plenty of guys in this class that while they'll never be "great" will be dependable starters for years to come.

    Again, if the value is there, and there's not better or comparable value at a position of greater need, I really don't have a problem taking a safety in the 3rd round. For too long we were loyal to guys because we got this hair up our butts that because we invested a mid or late round draft pick in a player that he should be afforded several years to prove he's not the guy before he's determined to not be the guy. That's how we ended up with no better option than Jeromey Clary... just saying. Aside from the pick spent on him, Taylor has done little to earn loyalty or prove that he's not replaceable. And it's not like he's on the kind of contract that say Hester was on as a rookie or even Mouton and Gilchrist are on where there's some noteworthy cap-hit if he's released (though there would be no reason to do it if he's a capable ST player). I mean look, if we end up with a good starting safety and an OK backup who is quality on ST then I really don't care if we spend 2 3rd's to achieve that, because not every draft pick is going to hit and that result is a pretty darn good average to come out of two picks.
     
  8. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX Hall of Fame

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    James Harrison anyone? I hear he is a free agent this year.
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Anybody see any possibility of TKO staying while we bring in a guy through FA? I'd love to keep him, to have that leadership, but he also can relieve us of $3M.

    I'd like to see Butler, FA, TKO, Gachkar, and Mouton and I'm pretty confident in an ILB group like that. Spikes could play a similar role that Keith Brooking played this year with the Broncos. I know they play the 43 but I'm just making a comparison.
     
  10. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Also, just read something interesting regarding our WR corps.

    I don't think Meachem and Royal are going anywhere. On the other hand, who do we have as a #1? That go to guy for Rivers? Answer is nobody. It was VJ, but he's gone. We need a prototype number 1. I believe if we release Malcolm Floyd it'll be about $1.5M saved. Fact is, Floyd hasn't had a 1,000 yard season or has stayed healthy enough to enjoy a 1,000 yard season. Most games he's played in was this year (14) in 8 years in the league. We know all about his injuries, the nagging hamstrings and what not.

    I think Vincent Brown could be a #1. Definitely a #2 when healthy and on. I think the whole Larry Fitzgerald thing is highly unlikely, but it makes so much sense. There are plenty of options in FA, but again were unlikely to sign any big names there.

    I feel like something has to be done with this WR corps. Floyd isn't a #1, neither is Meachem, or Royal.
     
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  11. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Alexander?
     
  12. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Really? Your willing to take the risk on him? After Jared Gaither, I highly doubt Dean is ready to give the kid a contract. Especially when he watches the kid play with a brace that takes up almost his whole leg.

    Alexander to me is another guy who has a tough time staying healthy. He was injured in Rams camp which lead to his release. He had a great year I know, but I still don't think he's a liable #1.
     
  13. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Which is another reason I'd like to see us draft a WR in this draft, sure we need to address O line first but after that its fair game in my opinion, Telesco under Griggson saw him come in to a new franchise with no loyalty to any of the players, dumb a bunch of salary, build through the draft and were highly successful in the process.

    Brown has showed promise, reports last year were suggesting he was the best WR in training camp but given the production we saw out of these guys last year isn't really saying anything, also to mention we've never seen Brown go up against a defenses number 1.

    Again I don't know how or if they are going to address this but they do need to do something
     
  14. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    He's going to get an RFA tag and $3M to prove it in 2013, but with the number of viable receivers on this team I don't think we need to go out of our way to make it an offseason priority.

    Fix the O-line this year, worry about the window dressing next year.
     
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  15. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Well I think think the O-line is the problem with Rivers, definitely the last 2 years. And when he had time he was quite effective. Same this year. But I think part of the problem this year was his receivers. He did in fact become a better QB when Alexander arrived. I think giving him the RFA tag and $3M against the cap is even too much.
     
  16. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    The thing with Alexander is really tricky, on one side he's had 5 surgeries on his left knee dating back to his sophomore year in college on the other, He's only 24, was Rivers clear cut favorite target, and arguably more productive than Vincent Jackson during his time in S.D.

    In 10 games DX had 37 receptions for 658 yards and 7 TD's

    Jackson's best year 68 receptions for 1167 yards and 9 TD's

    in comparison DX was on pace to match or out perform those stats. I know he's a risk but for a reasonable price I'd love to have him be our number 1
     
  17. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    He's an RFA, so he can be tendered for a reasonable price. This will give him another year to prove that he can stay healthy.
     
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  18. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    I think thats what we should do but Im also thinking it may be cheaper/wiser to try to sign him to a Floyd type contract but maybe throw in an injury clause
     
  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Need? No we don't. We need guys that can gain separate through crisp route running, won't get muscled off that route without a fight, and can consistently catch with their hands (i.e. without letting the ball get into their body). With that, any above average QB can produce well - he doesn't need a "prototype". Ben has produced just fine with Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown - neither are prototypical. Greg Jennings (even Jordy Nelson)... again, hardly the prototype. Michael Crabtree? Danny Amendola? Steve Smith? None of these guys fit the prototype, yet all are consistent, highly-productive receivers. Having a Julio Jones or a Calvin Johnson (who currently is THE prototype) is a luxury, not a necessity.
     
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  20. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    If it weren't for injuries DX could have been one of the 1st WR drafted in 2010 (I would put him only behind DT and Bryant), He's the closest thing we have right now to what would considered a true number 1 (the jury is still out on Vincent Brown).

    His speed isn't what most teams would covet in looking for a elite WR, and neither his durability ( as I mentioned if not for the injuries he could have been a 1st round talent) he has elite strength and explosion, toughness, and hands.

    Would I say he's up there with Megatron, Fitz or even Andre Johnson? Absolutely not, but I would put him in the same category as Marques Colston, Dwayne Bowe, Hakeem Nicks etc.

    If and that's a big "IF" he can stay healthy, we got a hell of a steal on this kid. On top of that he's still only 24 years old
     
  21. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Just because the guy had a 9 game season you ready to put him in a category of 3 true #1 WR's who've been very productive throughout there careers?

    That's a bit premature to me, again we did this with Gaither last year and look where it got us.

    He was a mid round-late round pick if you ask me in that draft. That's my opinion. That was a pretty good draft class of WR's.

    Fact is, the guy had 3 knee surgeries in college, and 2 more in the NFL. That's a total of 5 knee surgeries. 2 of those came late in camp. Do you think this guy is really liable? I don't.
     
  22. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Wasn't that the Alexander's exact problem coming out of college? Besides the injuries, he had difficulties getting separation in under neath routes and telegraphed his routes didn't he?

    I just feel like in his 9 game season, he played about 5-6 weak defenses/corners.

    Though, Alexander is physical, and I love that about him and he also has great hands.

    I just feel like non-prototype WR's don't work in our offense. But, it will be very interesting to see what kind of offense Mike McCoy brings.
     
  23. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    But don't forget, Jackson was facing #1 corners. While Alexander was facing most teams' #2's, and when he was the "#1" WR for 3 games and he only had 4 receptions for 103 yards and 2 TD's.
     
  24. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    You might be trying to argue that they don't work in "Norv's" offense (though I'd point to the fact that career journeymen like Kelley Washington and Patrick Crayton were able to find success in it), but we aren't running Norv's offense any longer, so it's really a moot argument. None of us know what "our offense" is or looks like yet, so we really can't say what does nad does work in it. Though both McCoy and Whisenhunt were able to find success with non-traditional/non-prototypical receivers at their past gigs.

    And for the record, Alexander was never going to go prior to the 3rd in his draft had his knees been 100% because the guy had 4.5s speed. Go back and look at pre-rookie wage scale drafts, speed and upside were always drafted over collegiate production. Alexander's other issue coming out of Mizzou was that he was coming out of Gary Pinkel's spread-heavy scheme that only required him to run about half of an NFL route-tree and had him running go-routes, posts, and corner routes a solid 60-70% of the time.
     
  25. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if The LBC is really John Spanos? :roflmao:

    Come on LBC show us your true identity! :p
     
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  26. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Gaither had a reputation for being lazy, Alexander does not.
     
  27. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Sort of stupid question here, as of right now the Chargers are allowed to extend some of their own players as well as non roster-ed FA's correct?
     
  28. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    The Chargers can extend any player under contract at any time. The only "magic" thing that happens with the start of the new league year is that contracts which only ran through the end of the 2012-13 season expire, and players who had been on other teams can now be negotiated with. I think that's also the first point at which you can conduct trades, but I'm not certain about that.
     
  29. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I was referring to Gaither's injury reputation, the notorious back injuries he had in the past. And, Alexander and Gaither both have the same problem with a particular injury. We signed Gaither long term knowing of his back problems, and I'm not ready to give Alexander a $3M RFA tag.

    That $3M will go against the cap in 2013, when we can go after Greg Jennings, who will face a small market and possibly be undervalued. I know the Dolphins will give him a hard look. Jennings gets separation, and that has been our problem here with our receivers. He runs crisp routes and has great hands. He had the abdomen injury that required surgery, but if you saw his end to the season, he was playing some great football. Before this season, he was very productive, there's no denying that.
     
  30. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Greg Jennings is going to be demanding upwards of $6-8 million per year (and again that's being generous since he's likely to command at least 6-7 just in salary alone and is going to be seeking a signing bonus of at minimum 15-20% of total contract value - which is pretty standard, but will have to be prorated over the course of the contract) and certainly won't be undervalued (I would expect Miami, Minnesota, Seattle, St. Louis, and possibly New England - at minimum to make a run at him). People need to accept the fact that the majority of free agent deals (particularly those of any player worth knowing) are going to be higher than you expect - and certainly higher than what would have been the standard in the era prior to this current CBA, because that's the way the players wanted it (so that money that had been going to rookies was siphoned to go towards veteran contracts... and that that money still had to be spent and couldn't just be pocketed). The few "free agent bargains" are most likely to come on very brief 1-year show-me contracts - that is if the player is one of note.
     

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