1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Free Agents We Can Probably Expect to be Tagged

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by The LBC, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    So I brought this up in the podcast chat tonight and lo and behold, I've actually had a general thread on the topic going on at the forums over on FootballsFuture (this is the benefit of me having well-informed fans from every team in the league on our forums there), so in my continued efforts to be so liked by everyone... let me be the first to rain on the parade of many when it comes to free agency and players that will more likely than not receive the franchise tag (thus making them unattainable except by trade).

    I've broken this down team by team and tried to get as in-depth as possible while remaining concise (how's that for an oxymoron?):

    Arizona Cardinals:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DE Calais Campbell, CB Richard Marshall
    Likely Tag Recipient: Calais Campbell (95% if they don't work out an extension sooner)

    Atlanta Falcons:

    Possible Tag Candidates: DE John Abraham, CB Brent Grimes, ILB Curtis Lofton
    Likely Tag Recipient: Curtis Lofton (80%), Brent Grimes (20%)
    Notes: It's possible that the Falcons elect to move Sean Weatherspoon inside and let Lofton walk, but this is the same Curtis Lofton that has led their team in tackles for the last three years. One of the two is likely tagged though, the question will be whether Atlanta gets a deal worked out with the other prior to the start of free agency.


    Baltimore Ravens:[/u]

    Possible Tag Candidates: OG Ben Grubbs, RB Ray Rice
    Likely Tag Recipient: Ray Rice (100% if no deal is worked out before free agency begins)
    Notes: It may be interesting to watch unfold since Rice, Forte, and LeSean McCoy will all be seeking new contracts this offseason and their respective agents may wait to see which front office blinks first to set the market. But one thing is for certain, Rice will be Ozzie Newsome's highest priority to re-sign this offseason.


    Buffalo Bills:[/u]

    Possible Tag Candidates: OT Demetrius Bell, WR Stevie Johnson
    Likely Tag Recipient: Demetrius Bell (50%), Stevie Johnson ( < 5%)
    Notes: It's really going to depend on how much Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey want to ensure their OL continuity. Bell isn't exactly a Top 5 OT, and probably shouldn't be paid as one, but they could elect to use this as a means to buy more time (the question is, does that happen at the cost of making the player and his agent believe he's worth more money than he actually is?).


    Carolina Panthers:[/u]

    Possible Tag Candidates: LB Dan Connor
    Likely Tag Recipient: Dan Connor (70%)
    Notes: Normally Carolina's GM Mary Hurney has only used the franchise tag on a player that would otherwise try and leave without giving him the opportunity to offer a deal. It should be noted that while the Panthers eventually inked Charles Johnson to a landmark deal for the DE this year, they did not tender him with the franchise tag when afforded the opportunity to do so. Given the multiple knee injuries to Thomas Davis and now having Jon Beason coming off a knee injury, they may well not have much of a choice here. Even if Connor's not worth the money, he buys them a year to see how Beason's recovery bodes before having to make that decision.


    Chicago Bears:

    Possible Tag Candidates: RB Matt Forte
    Likely Tag Recipient: Matt Forte (100%)
    Notes: Forte will get tagged for sure if they can't work out a long-term deal before FA starts, which becomes a lesser and lesser likelihood with each day that passes until they bring in whoever their new GM will be - and then that GM decides who among the coaching staff stays and whether an overhaul is in order or not.


    Cincinnati Bengals:

    Possible Tag Candidates: K Mike Nugent
    Likely Tag Recipient: No one (or possibly Mike Nugent)
    Notes: This is a franchise that quite frankly just does not utilize the tag and I don't expect Mike Brown to change that any time soon. He's too cheap to shell out that kind of money with so little guaranteed return (i.e. only one season of sure tenure).


    Cleveland Browns:

    Possible Tag Candidates: K Phil Dawson, ILB D'Qwell Jackson, RB Peyton Hillis
    Likely Tag Recipient: Phil Dawson (70%), D'Qwell Jackson (20%), Peyton Hillis (10%)
    Notes: Had Hillis not been on the outs then supposedly having mended fences with the coaching staff in Cleveland for most of this season he'd probably be a shoe-in for this... or have gotten an extension already. Jackson is more likely to re-sign on his own than Dawson is, hence why Dawson (who was tagged in 2011) is the more likely tag candidate if they use it.


    Dallas Cowboys:

    Possible Tag Candidates: ILB Bradie James, OG Derrick Dockery
    Likely Tag Recipient: Bradie James (50%), Derrick Dockery (10%)
    Notes: Jerruh isn't shy about throwing around his money. And while Sean Lee has come on this season to overtake Keith Brooking on the depth chart, both James and Brooking are UFA's and there isn't much behind Lee to step up and pair with him to fill the other interior LB spot. Could be a stop-gap move or they could just elect to let both walk and pursue a free agent LB. Dockery has played well for them this season, but his age is a concern so it's kind of a how dire do they perceive things to get deal. They'll likely try ot re-sign him, but his loss likely isn't so bad that they'd feel compelled to overpay him in the interim.


    Denver Broncos:

    Possible Tag Candidates: DT Brodrick Bunkley
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: Priority #1 this off-season will be to extend Ryan Clady and they likely won't be making any big-time money commitments until they get that handled. Bunkley might be a candidate with the tag amount for DT's looking like it'll decrease by roughly $4M-plus from ~$12.5M to $7.9M with the Haynesworth contract coming off the league books, but $8M is still a lot when they're talking roughly in the $10M/yr average to resign Clady.

    Detroit Lions:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DE Cliff Avril, LB Stephen Tulloch
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: Again, not a front office that has been much to use the tag. Avril's a possibility, but that DE tag is hefty (~$10.6M) even with a roughly $2M decrease from the 2011 figure. No doubt they'll likely be in the running to try and re-sign both, but given the amount Avril is going to command (given his scheme diversity and prowess as a pass-rusher) they'll likely end up having to choose between one of the two... and Tulloch has the ties to HC Jim Schwartz which brought him to Detroit in the first place.

    Green Bay Packers:
    Possible Tag Candidates: TE JerMichael Finley, OC Scott Wells, QB Matt Flynn
    Likely Tag Recipient: JerMichael Finley (50%), Scott Wells (40%), Matt Flynn (10%)
    Notes: The only way they tag Flynn is for a tag-and-trade deal, but ultimately they may not have that luxury given their other impending FA's. Wells is probably a higher priority to re-sign given that he's been more productive and stayed healthier than Finley (thus the lower percentage he gets tagged), but he would be the likely candidate if push came to shove and they were truly worried about having to fend for him on the market with cap space rich teams. Finley's the likeliest candidate as he's an Aaron Rodgers favorite, coming off an injury (so committing a large guaranteed money chunk to him won't be that comforting), and would still likely command some higher speculative offers on the open market (a la Sidney Rice) because of his potential to be a game-breaker.

    Houston Texans:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DE/OLB Mario Williams, RB Arian Foster, OC Chris Myers
    Likely Tag Recipient: Mario Williams (95%), Chris Myers (5%)
    Notes: Fact is that Myers and Foster are more likely for long-term contracts at this point that Williams is, crazy as that may sound. Williams is coming off an injury so considering he'll likely command a larger contract than DeMarcus Ware received (by a stretch), Houston will likely play it safe and tag him for a year to ensure everything is good before committing that guaranteed money. Williams is already on record as saying he's fine with this, as well. Foster might seem a candidate, but 1) They have Ben Tate on the DC behind him, and 2) Gary Kubiak has a lot of the sway around there and he's a Shanahan disciple - the same Shanarat that never put a lot of value in the idea of a "franchise" RB.

    Indianapolis Colts:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DE Robert Mathis, WR Reggie Wayne
    Likely Tag Recipient: Depends on Peyton; Mathis (30%), Wayne (30%), No one (30%)
    Notes: Really you can't project this right now. If Peyton comes back and plays for them then they'll likely do whatever they can to keep Mathis unless Peyton goes to bat for Wayne. If Peyton isn't the starting QB for the Colts next season, I'd expect them to let both walk with the slight chance the retain Wayne to try and help ease Luck in. Either way, at this point you might as well give Peyton the tag and tell him use it at his discretion because that's pretty much what's going to happen. Granted picking up Peyton's contract for 2012 could have major cap implications that could limit them from tagging either.

    Jacksonville Jaguars:
    Possible Tag Candidates: CB Rashean Mathis
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: Just won't happen. Mathis isn't worth committing that kind of money to at his age and when they've got higher priorities to work on extending this offseason in Terrance Knighton and Darryl Smith.

    Kansas City Chiefs:
    Possible Tag Candidates: WR Dwayne Bowe, CB Brandon Carr
    Likely Tag Recipient: Dwayne Bowe (95%)
    Notes: I just can't see Pioli letting him walk. Either he'll tag him and they'll work out a deal. Or they'll tag him and trade him to a team that will give him a huge deal. Bowe will absolutely test the open market if given the chance though and he has every reason to want to.

    Miami Dolphins:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DT Paul Soliai
    Likely Tag Recipient: Paul Soliai (30%)
    Notes: Their top priority this off-season is extending Jake Long who will be going into the last year of his contract, and whose $11.6M he's scheduled to make is probably what they'd end up paying him annually on an extension regardless. Going to really depend on how much cap room they have to play with, considering they may also be in play for a QB and that can get costly. Also, tagging Soliai woudl cost them 120% of his 2011 franchise tendered salary, which means they wouldn't reap the benefit of the lull in DT franchise tender.

    Minnesota Vikings:
    Possible Tag Candidates: LB E.J. Henderson
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: Henderson's the only viable candidate and his play has declined since his return from injury. Couple that with the fact that Minnesota looks to be going through a rebuilding phase and retained HC Leslie Frazier has said he wants to put an emphasis on getting younger. I find it hard to see Henderson being a likely tag candidate.

    New England Patriots:
    Possible Tag Candidates: WR Wes Welker
    Likely Tag Recipient: Wes Welker (60%; 100% if things get dire closer to the deadline)
    Notes: Belichick really doesn't really use the tag unless he is convinced he would otherwise have no opportunity to be the leading candidate to re-sign the player (see Logan Mankins). Welker, by all accounts, should re-up with the Pats; I have trouble envisioning a scenario where he doesn't.

    New Orleans Saints:
    Possible Tag Candidates: QB Drew Brees, WR Marques Colston, OG Carl Nicks
    Likely Tag Recipient: Marques Colston (65%), Carl Nicks (35%)
    Notes: This is where it gets interesting. No one is higher priority than Brees, and he'll likely get his extension as soon as the Saints' season is completed. How much 2012 cap space that eats could dictate where they move from there. The franchise tender is the same for all offensive linemen, so they'd effectively have to pay Nicks like a franchise LT in order to ensure retaining him and buying time to further negotiate an extension; but the real question is can they afford to pay Brees AND $8M annual to each of their starting guards as Jahri Evans is already contract for as much. Logic suggests they may let Nicks walk rather than chance Colston hitting the open market where a WR needed and cap-rich team like St. Louis or Washington could price them right out of competition.

    New York Giants:
    Possible Tag Candidates: WR Mario Manningham, CB Aaron Ross
    Likely Tag Recipient: Aaron Ross (30%)
    Notes: Manningham won't get tagged with the emergence of Victor Cruz (who will be up for extension quite soon) and Hakeem Nicks (only a year behind Cruz on the timetable for an extension), and Justin Tuck is coming due as well. Ross is really a wild card. I'm sure the Giants would love to keep him and they seem to be in pretty solid cap-shape, but it really depends on how they view Prince Amukamara in his 2nd year. If anyone gets it, it'll be Ross, I'm just not sure they're going to have the luxury of paying him $10.5M guaranteed in a year when they may also be giving out a fair amount of signing bonuses and guaranteed monies in extensions.

    New York Jets:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DT Sione Pouha, WR Plaxico Burress
    Likely Tag Recipient: Sione Pouha (50%), Plaxico Burress (5%)
    Notes: Again, going to be a matter of what they can afford. Pouha should be kept and I think they know it. However, 2011 is the only year they're able to get out from under Santonio Holmes (who is apparently on the outs with the coaches and locker room now) and his contract while only having to eat $1M before his annual salary escalates to $11M, so they may not be able to afford to forfeit both their starting WR's to free agency in the same season. Plax's potential gain even though he hasn't done much to actually earn such a payday.

    Philadelphia Eagles:
    Possible Tag Candidates: WR DeSean Jackson
    Likely Tag Recipient: DeSean Jackson (30%)
    Notes: If they were going to give Jackson the kind of "playmaker" contract that he was after, they would have given it to him by now. And with more deserving guys like McCoy, Trent Cole, and Jeremy Maclin coming due for extensions soon they really can't afford to give Jackson a massive long-term deal. All the same, they may consider tagging him this year and trying to deal him, considering how aggressive their front office has been in the past and how little game-changing speed this incoming WR draft class has.

    Oakland Raiders:
    Possible Tag Candidates: RB Michael Bush, S Tyvon Branch
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: Branch is the only possibility, but if I'm judging Reggie McKenzie off his mentor Ted Thompson, he likely won't use the franchise tag very liberally. Seymour's due a $7.5M bonus, they gave out some hefty extensions last year, and can they really afford to tag a backup RB or backup S?

    Pittsburgh Steelers:
    Possible Tag Candidates: None
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: They locked up anyone of note already this season and will likely be looking ahead to the extension of Mike Wallace. Rashad Mendenhall's torn ACL may have just cost him the tag, sad to say.

    San Diego Chargers:
    Possible Tag Candidates: OT Jared Gaither, WR Vincent Jackson, OC Nick Hardwick, NT Antonio Garay
    Likely Tag Recipient: Gaither (30%), Hardwick (35%), Garay (35%)
    Notes: For the moment, I'll take Acee and his brown-nosing link into AJ's office at his word when he says we're not likely to tag VJ next year. Gaither's a real question mark and may well depend on his willingness to re-sign without testing the open market again (or to take a team-friendly contract) as well as whether McNeill retires or we're able to exercise the medical out-clause to his contract. Hardwick was among those campaigning for Norv to come back, so I would assume that indicates his desire to re-sign with us. It would be a pretty dick move to press Spanos to bring back Norv then either retire or take a contract elsewhere without giving us the opportunity to match. Garay may benefit from the fact that the DT tag drops to a more manageable $7.9M in 2012, though he may end up like Aubrayo Franklin where that IS his big pay day and we either elevate Cam Thomas the following year or pursue another NT. Or we could go that option this year.

    San Francisco 49ers:
    Possible Tag Candidates: CB Carlos Rogers, S Dashon Goldson
    Likely Tag Recipient: Dashon Goldson (60%)
    Notes: Goldson is having a near Pro Bowl quality year in the Bay Area... he also wants a contract akin to what Weddle got and while he'd been good in prior seasons this is the first season he's truly played this good. This may be a compromise to see if he can continue his level of play, as the Niners can't afford to lose him, but would want to ensure he's not a contract-year wonder.

    Seattle Seahawks:
    Possible Tag Candidates: RB Marshawn Lynch, LB David Hawthorne
    Likely Tag Recipient: Marshawn Lynch
    Notes: He's had a career year, but he's also a guy that the Seahawks management will likely be keen to see who of the other RB's gets what to benchmark how much they're comfortable giving Lynch. And that may take a year or so to shake out. Hawthorne has also given every indication that he wants to re-up with Seattle; obviously money will factor in, but still...

    St. Louis Rams:
    Possible Tag Candidates: WR Brandon Lloyd
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: Too many extensions coming due with Bartell, Fletcher, Laurinaitis, and Long to tie up that kind of money in a guy like Lloyd, who the new front office will have far less allegiance to than the previous one might have.

    Tampa Bay Buccaneers:
    Possible Tag Candidates: None
    Likely Tag Recipient: None
    Notes: No one worth the tag.

    Tennessee Titans:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DL Jason Jones, CB Cortland Finnegan
    Likely Tag Recipient: Jason Jones (70%), Cortland Finnegan (30%)
    Notes: I'd like to give Finnegan a higher likelihood because the Titans look like they might be potentially turning over 3 out of 4 starting secondary positions next year, but unless Jones is extended before the 2012 season business begins, he's going to be a higher priority and someone who would be a greater difficulty to re-sign on the open market.

    Washington Redskins:
    Possible Tag Candidates: DE Adam Carriker, TE Fred Davis, S LaRon Landry
    Likely Tag Recipient: LaRon Landry (70%), Fred Davis (20%)
    Notes: Landry will be coming off a ruptured Achilles tendon in 2012, and be a year removed from a torn groin. That said, the Skins defense is noticeably different when he's playing versus when he's not, and he's clearly one of the better safeties in the league when healthy. The price for the safety franchise tender decreases from $8M to $6M in 2012, so it may be a calculated risk to give Landry the tag and see if he can come back and stay healthy - and is certainly a safer option than just forking over a guaranteed contract or letting him hit the market and trying to get him to agree to a lesser one-year contract because he's coming off of multiple injuries.
     
  2. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    Nice work. Don't have time just now to look through the list & see who'd be a fit & worth pursuing in San Diego.

    I doubt VJ gets tagged again as well. A little too inconsistent to pay that kind of money - again. He's important to the offense but needs to take a reasonable contract if he's going to stay. He's not a top 5 guy. Top 10, sure. Tagging Gaither would be an interesting move. If San Diego doesn't commit to using him at LOT, you'll quite likely see him either walk for someone who will or the "lazy" tag will resurface. IF McNeill returns & Gaither is in camp, that's a battle that I see Gaither winning. Garay could get tagged as I don't see Thomas starting at NT. This is still a position of need IMO. Hardwick I see back. His retirement statement, IMO, was a little leverage move.

    Grubbs may be a guy to consider pursuing.
     
  3. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,108
    Ratings:
    +2,928
    Well done on this LBC

    Agree about VJ likely not being tagged, think they want to finish that off once and for all. Never considered that they'd tag Gaither, don't think they will because Gaither wants to be here and if he has another good year here, he could be worth big money. I think he remains with the Chargers and it will lead to something very interesting if McNeil and Gaither are on the same roster. I mentioned on the podcast my dream would be to move McNeil to RT and ship Clary out of here.'

    Agree about targeting Grubbs, I'd take a look at Bell if he isn't tagged (he'd be a good fit at RT), and I'd almost wonder if the Texans would tag Williams. He's not necessarily a 3-4 OLB, the Texans got massive production out of Reed and their other OLBs as well as their need for a nose tackle might mean they take the money for Williams and use it elsewhere. Hardwick, don't think he'l be tagged. Like I said as well, I'm willing to lose players like Jackson, Tolbert & Hardwick if it means some major additions to the defense
     
  4. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    I'd kinda hate to lose Tolbert but I want to either see him in the FB role orsee what Summers has in that capacity. Norv needs to start using a REAL FB as a lead blocker again.

    Not sure that McNeill fits at ROT. Run blocking isn't his strong suit. I'm really hoping that he hangs 'em up or gets demoted/traded after Gaither wins the camp battle.
     
  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,108
    Ratings:
    +2,928
    I just think the best possible situation is to somehow someway put both McNeil & Gaither on the field at the same time. The Chargers have to make this work however they can, it would put the best combination on the team and would mercifully get Jeromey Clary out of there.

    And I don't like the idea of losing tolbert or hardwick but if your going to lose those guys, then dammit make something happen on defense by bringing in some impact guys. Make the money you would've spent on them, and Jackson too for that matter, count on good defensive playmakers. Regarding tolbert I don't think he'd ask for that much, but the Chargers need to fully commit to Ryan Mathews who needs the vast majority of the carries.
     
  6. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,108
    Ratings:
    +2,928
    Random question; could Robert Mathis play OLB in a 3-4???
     
  7. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

    Ratings:
    +408
    He'd likely be a rush specialist, period.

    Defense is where I'd like to see us concentrate in the draft. Young, aggressive play makers. I think we can shore up the OL through FA if the FO is willing to really pursue some guys.
     
  8. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,053
    Ratings:
    +942
    http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/McNeill-100-Percent-Sure-Hell-Return-136539113.html

    McNeill stated he'll be returning..

    I see Gatiher deff being signed to a 2/3 year deal.. he was our best Linemen throughout the stretch of the last 6 games without a doubt IMO, and he was given such short time.. Great pick up..

    Clary I think will be traded.. even though he's one of Rivers' favorites, I see Gaither moving to RT and Clary being shipped with his contract to clear up a little cap space..

    VJ better be signed.. I'd only give him a 3-4 year deal though, 4+ is too much he'll be 29 come next year.. and if he doesn't take it there are other options that will be open.. Stevie Johnson, DeSean Jackson, Marques Colston, and Robert Meachem
     
  9. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    848
    Ratings:
    +358

    You raise an interesting idea about having McNeill and Gaither in at the same time. Perhaps it would be easier for McNeill to be a RT, I'd definitely like to see us bring Gaither back if we can work something reasonable out.

    I think if they don't use the franchise tag on Vinnie, then they don't use it at all in my opinion.

    Regarding Mario Williams, though they may have had a good season without him, let's not go crazy here, he is still the best player on their D by a mile, and one of the best defensive players in the league, they'd be crazy to not either re-sign him long-term or franchise him, they won't let him walk.
     
  10. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,108
    Ratings:
    +2,928
    The only issue is that Gaither is adamant about not going to RT, and I don't recall him performing well at that position with the Ravens. I think it would be easier to just move McNeil to RT even if he's not ideal. He'd be a massive upgrade over Clary and yes that means we can get rid of that schmuck. I don't care about how or the details but they have to put these twin towers on the field at the same time.

    And for WR I'd be happy with Meachem/Royal-Floyd-Brown
     
  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,053
    Ratings:
    +942
    I think Gaither will be playing RT, he has more experience there rather than McNeill who has played Rivers' blindside for years now.. hope this doesn't ruin Jared's form..
     
  12. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,053
    Ratings:
    +942
    Gaither played real well for the Ravens in 09.. Cameron named him the starting RT but then his season was cut short in Foxboro when he sustained a head injury and was put on IR until the end of the 2010 season and was eventually cut by Baltimore..

    Chiefs picked him up and you know the rest of that story.. Gaither is 6'9 and McNeill 6'7... massive size on the edges for us the only question is will they be quick enough to stop those smaller pass rushers who can get under them..

    I'd be happy with VJ over any of those WR FA's just because he has that Rivers connection.. but I'd be happy to see a Stevie Johnson-Floyd-Brown scenario.. we'd obviously have to go out and draft a guy like Dwight Jones though or a Nick Toon, Ryan Broyles, and my favorite Ruben Randle..
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,293
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Somebody has WAY too much time on his hands.......... #imjustsaying ;)
     
  14. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    848
    Ratings:
    +358

    I didn't know he had experience of playing RT, that makes him even more attractive to the team going forward. If we could re-sign him to a deal, then I could defnitely see him replacing Clary.

    The reason I like VJ better than any other free agent WRs out there is simply because of his height and blocking ability in comparison to the others out there. Rivers loves the jump ball, which a 6'5 VJ can go up and get. Somone like Meachem or Stevie (who are both 6'2) might not be able to do that as well, though each are good players, I prefer VJ if we can work something out.
     
  15. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,293
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Gaither >>>> McNeill
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,053
    Ratings:
    +942
    Yeah I'm pretty positive he does.. before getting the LT starting position he backed up at RT and I believe in KC he was a back up RT.. he was brought in late in that game against Pitt as a LT and eventually was called for a false start which led to him being cut..

    Yeah I'd prefer VJ as well deff... but if we can't work out a deal then I was just naming some others we could pursue.. he still has Floyd and Brown though at 5'11 has an incredible leap.. Then we'd pursue someone like Ruben Randle who is 6'4 207 out of LSU.. or a Dwight Jones, 6'5 out of North Carolina.. both with great hands and good leaping ability..

    Stevie though has a big ego and puts his celebrations before his team, has 158 catches, 2,077 yards and 17 TDs the last two years.. that is a big time receiver if he gets his head screwed on right.. He's very quick but needs to polish up on finishing catches.. he's still dropping balls..

    then someone like DeSean.. brings a different dynamic to your offense, over 4,000 + yards from scrimmage (Receiving and Rushing) and 24 TD's his four years in Philly not to mention his dangerous antics on punt returns; really is a game changer just has too big of an ego as well.. Some pretty big numbers when he had a plagued McNabb throwing him the ball his first two years..

    Not big on Meachem.. he seems to have a tougher time staying on the field than Floyd does..
     
  17. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,327
    Ratings:
    +341
    Well not so sure what Brandon loyyd can do to control his future, but he has came out and said that he wants to follow Josh McD whereever he may or may not go. And if NE is actualy gonna bring him back as OC, if Lloyd is someone they think can replace Welker for cheaper. And considering if Brandon wants to get his way like this it means he is willing to take a average pay rate.

    I cant see Brandon gettin his way, and I really cant see NE NOT retaining Welker. Course they do still have that Welker 2.0 *eddelmen??*
     
  18. Moses

    Moses Can You Stand The Rain?

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    848
    Ratings:
    +358
    Yeah Stevie and DeSean are both good, they're both way more foolish than VJ though, which doesn't seem to fit the Chargers' MO of who they go after. Regarding Meachem, I think he's good, but even at his best still a #2 receiver, Floyd when healthy is better than him. I hope we keep VJ, but at the same time I hope we don't overpay. The Max for me would be that type of contract Sidney Rice got, 5 years, up to 40m.

    I'm really keen on Vincent Brown so far, looking at him you'd think he was strictly a slot type of guy, but the dude gets down the field and can get up there after the ball.
     
  19. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    10,928
    Ratings:
    +1,746
    Holy wall of text Batman!

    I just hope we keep Jackson, Tolbert, and Gaither on O, otherwise concentrate EVERYTHING to getting a better D. If our D could just get the fcuk off the field on 3rd downs I think we would have been 2-3 game better this season.

    2 things: D and BEEF pleeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,053
    Ratings:
    +942
    Edelmen will be nothing to the likes of Welker.. I live out here in New England and I hear there damn radio talk shows Edelmen has problems off the field.. he assaulted a women, but Bill got the best out of him when he took one back at home against KC..

    Edelmen might be converted to a Nickel Corner, atleast thats what Troy Brown was saying the other day, I don't think he's a good enough tackler or coverage man but Belicheck thinks so..

    Nothing more than a good Special Teams guy.. He doesn't run the best routes but does have some good hands.. he's a FA after this year and don't see him leaving NE but if he is it will prob be to a team that runs a Wildcat type offense, he used to be a Quarterback in college as well..
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Actually, like I said most of it was compiled for me (SCORE!). I just had to organize it all into looking nice and pretty, and add some of my own thoughts in the "notes" section - though even a fair amount of that was direct quotes from the input I received from other posters on FF who are usually extremely in tune with what their respective teams tend to do. All in all, thanks to my friends copy and paste, that post took me roughly 10-15 minutes to assemble and proof.

    But on topic:

    Gaither had been adamant in the past about playing LOT because it was the money position and the man had yet to get paid any kind of big payday. Folks forget that he was a UDFA who initially signed with the Ravens and was coached up. His better fit is honestly on the left size - we've seen this - and while I don't have the faith or put a ton of stock in the "greatness" of Hal Hunter and John Sullivan that Acee and his ilk do, the tape shows that MM struggles with speed rushers. He'd see less of those on the strong-side. Assuming his back could take it he could also get away with carrying a bit more bulk on the right side as well - though I'm starting to wonder if part of what's making his stenosis get aggravated more often of late is because he could due to lose some weight and tone up more (yes, the brilliance of our conditioning program!). MM's already gotten his pay day, and if moving to RT prolongs his ability to collect those larger game checks then I doubt he'd object to the move (the guy's fairly humble from what I recall). Just whether our coaching staff have the brains to figure all this out and/or implement it.

    Unless Dielman retires (which he's already said he's coming back), I can't see spending the money it would take to lock down Grubbs before Baltimore comes in flashing similar cash along with home field advantage - and we're talking the $8M/yr or more that Jahri Evans gets, probably closer to Logan Mankins' contract. And that's for a RG? A damn good RG, I'll admit, but even he won't improve Clary's play. And Clary's play clearly is affecting Vasquez's. With Vasquez in the last year of his contract, I look at it this way, we're going to need to invest a draft pick (possibly two) somewhere along the interior OL at the very least to start grooming the guys who will succeed Dielman and Hardwick. We could be high on Green to be one of those guys, but I don't see us retaining (or managing to retain if both produce) both Green and Vasquez in 2013. So really only one likely factors into our plans moving forward after this upcoming season.

    Mathis, if he's not horribly expensive (which is possible because he's been on really cap-friendly earnings the past couple seasons relative to his actual talent) he's still a potent pass-rusher (play him at WOLB, shift Phillips to the strong-side which he's fully capable of playing) particularly if Pagano implements anything similar to the scheme his brother runs in Baltimore which is more of a 3-4 Over (very similar to Pete Carroll's defense in Seattle/USC where the weakside pass-rusher - or LEO - lines up in a two-point stance but is practically right up on the LOS, thus giving the illusion of a four-man front - and 4 out of 5 times, that guy is rushing the QB as his primary assignment). The other name I threw out for consideration over in the draft threads was Trevor Scott (remember him?) who the Raiders actually moved from DE to WILL LB and then Chuck Bresnahan came in and they just sort of forgot about him and became enamored with Quentin Groves after Jacksonville cut him.

    I read an article the other day where Brandon Lloyd has basically said he's going wherever Josh McDaniels does. This is of course assuming that whatever team that has McD wants Lloyd for what Lloyd will want monetarily to play for them. But I can't blame Lloyd for this approach because McDaniels' scheme is literally the only one he was actually productive in.

    I'd actually make a case that VJ is harming Rivers. I'm sure someone will call me a fool for this, but Rivers' love for the jumpball seems predicated off the fact that he has Jackson or a guy that will fight for the ball in the air (Brown). But look where a good deal of Philip's INT's came from this year... dumb jumpballs that weren't necessary at the time (i.e. late in a half or while trailing by multiple scores) which he either underthrew or the receiver was outfought for in the air. Rivers doesn't need VJ to put up monster numbers - Gates has a greater affect on that than anything because of the respect that even-hobbled opposing defenses have to show him. Take a look across the league, when you have an elite QB then having a big, fast prototypical WR1 is more of a luxury, not a necessity. And in times of need, sometimes you have to cut out certain luxuries in order to pay for greater necessities. Mike Wallace is a fantastic receiver, but he's far from the WR1 prototype but still able to match the production of most of those same guys because of the play and utility of his QB. Neither one specifically "makes" the other, but they compliment each other well and amplify one another's performances. Stevie Johnson only cares about Stevie Johnson... if we actually had the audacity to sign him I'd have to seriously consider buying a knockoff jersey, cutting the bolts and logos off first (because I won't burn those), and torching the thing on principle. DeSean Jackson is actually a worse receiver than Johnson is - he's a one trick pony who the blueprint is already out among the coaching community how to neutralize (you just play him physical at the line and he wilts).

    If we're looking for receivers, as I've said in the past, I could care less about elite speed or size - those are again luxuries that are more necessary when you don't have an elite QB. Give me guys who have great route-running ability as the means to gaining separation, who have better than average hands, and if it's not asking too much who put in full effort in run-blocking, and I'll happily take any of those guys over the likes of Jackson.
     
  22. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Also... just to kind of throw it out there. VJ's not a full 6'5"... our media guide rounds up. He's 6'4.5". From a pure measurables jumpball standpoint he's marginally better in terms of height (see above) and vertical jump (39") than Meachem (6'2.0" and 37" vertical). Where Meachem actually has an edge on VJ is short-area quickness and burst off the line (slightly better 10-yard split time and better broad jump).
     
  23. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Yeah... I don't know that we'd bring in two FA receivers, but it's possible - considering that we would have to flesh out a camp roster at minimum and we'd be assuming to coming in (Meachem/Royal) for two going out (VJ/Crayton).

    That particular corps gives us something akin to what Green Bay and New Orleans have - not necessarily in respect to straight up talent but in the respect that every one of those guys is capable of operating out of the X, Y, or Z spots, which gives us the ability to move guys around in the formation, show a lot more looks, exploit match-ups, and also feel less of an effect in the event a guy goes down with an injury because we're not lacking in one particular type of receiver. And that's not even factoring in the respect that Gates commands from opposing defenses.

    Also, if we ever went 4-wide and spread opposing D's out, no way in hell anyone but the ballsiest DC's rush anything more than four guys at Rivers (this is something that, along with his quick release, has led to so much of Rodgers' success in McCarthy's offense).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,293
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Jackson also doesn't take advantage of his true size....... he likes to cradle to ball too much, rather than going up and getting it at the highest point like Floyd does. Frankly, Floyd is a better pass catcher, he just can't stay healthy. Floyd has hands like a fly trap (similar to Cromartie). Jackson has the bigger body, and can use it like a TE to block out defenders, but he doesn't have Gate's technique.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,355
    Ratings:
    +606
    Tyvon Branch.
     
  26. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Thankfully someone else noticed this besides me. I hate the idea of both Rivers leaning on Jackson so heavily when he opts for the deep jump-ball and there-resulting people using that to justify that we need to keep Jackson for that reason. VJ rarely highpoints the ball on catches, and on a lot of stops and hitch routes he uses his body to trap/cradle the ball which had resulted in a fair amount of drops or made it easier for DB's to get a hand in and strip/knock it away.

    VJ's one of those players who is nice to have if it's on your terms, but he's not someone whose production isn't terribly difficult to replace. And that's definitely no worth the $10M annual he thinks he should be making.
     
  27. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,327
    Ratings:
    +341
    IMO cut bait with VJ for his off field issues and kicking that Challenge flag. Its as unnacceptable as McNabb not knowing the rules of NLF overtime!! I WAS a McNabb fan until that day. Also did a good job of gettin me over givin a shiz about the Eagles.

    Circumstances suck with M80 being the delicate flower he is, is the only reason I think VJ is still here.
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,980
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3202/vincent-jackson

    Pretty much what I was intimating. Because VJ was tagged in 2011, his tag tender amount for 2012 would have to be 120% of that by rule, which means it'd cost something north of $13M to tag him. Just not gonna happen. Sounds like we'll try and re-sign him, but I also can't imagine we're going to be all that amenable to paying him $10M/year. If he's willing to work for $7-8M/yr maybe, but I think (and I think his agent will think) he can find more money elsewhere.
     
  29. Scott the Rock

    Scott the Rock BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    795
    Ratings:
    +130
    Don't forget that VJ has great hands! Don't you guys remember not to many years back we had receivers that couldn't catch easy balls? That was horrible for rivers.
     
  30. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,355
    Ratings:
    +606
    Unlikely that M80 will play all 16 games next year, so with VJ gone, that leaves us without a #1 and a consistently available #2 WR.
    Rivers is going to need Gates in there if that's the case. And that's another crap shoot, injury-wise.

    Pretty tall order to add #1WR to OL (RT? C?), starting OLB, starting SS. Get one of those in the draft. Some of the others might come cheap in FA, most not. The price tag for the WR tag is prohibitive for sure. But I'd bet they get VJ back with a long term deal. First, it plays into AJ's 'signing our own FAs is the same as signing any FA' schtick, second it makes sense for a guy that knows the system. The one downside is that VJs effort, let's face it, wasn't always 100%. At the same time, he makes some damn good catches. Risky move--he's one of those guys that could go south character-wise once he gets the big contract. But unless Vincent Brown is ready to step up as #1 (doubtful), it's going to be VJ or...??? Steve Johnson?
     

Share This Page