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Garay "looking for the right situation"

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Free agent Garay not in any hurry
    Written by


    PALM BEACH, Fla. — Antonio Garay has to sign with an NFL team sooner or later.

    Well, maybe not sooner.

    The ex-Chargers nose tackle is still weighing his options in free agency, including an offer on the table from his former team. Drew Rosenhaus, Garay's agent, said Monday there's no rush to make a decision.

    “We're still looking for a good home for him,” Rosenhaus said at the league owners' meetings. “We are maintaining a line of communication with the Chargers. I don't know how quickly we'll get a deal done, but I think Antonio is a fine defensive tackle who's played extremely well these past two seasons.”

    That's not just agent talk, either.

    Garay, 32, has been the team's top interior pass rusher since replacing Jamal Williams in 2010. Last season, while arguably not as dominant in the run game as the year prior, he generated pressure on 8.9 percent of pass-rush attempts, second most in the NFL among 3-4 defensive tackles, according to Pro Football Focus.

    Garay, as an unrestricted free agent, can visit and negotiate with other teams.

    He's yet to make a visit, but Rosenhaus said he's speaking with teams about scheduling some in the "near future."

    "We're working hard to find a good fit for him," Rosenhaus added. "There's a number of teams interested in him. We're just trying to find the right team at the right number and the right situation."
     
  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    After seeing several E60 and 60 Minutes pieces on Rosenhaus, I can't help but think that Garay is running into the exact same dearth of suitors that a guy like Aubrayo Franklin ran into last off-season at a similar age. "Still looking for that right opportunity" in Rosenhaus/agent-speak is equivalent to "still haven't found another team with a level of interest that we can successfully play one camp against the other to drive up the price".

    I'm fine with this. If Garay wants to go mercenary then more power to him - he's only had one truly great year here and that's not enough to merit us mortgaging our future on him - particularly with other comparable guys like the aforementioned Franklin, Kelly Gregg, and a few assorted others still sitting on the market.
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It's understandable, since Garay really only has one deal left in him. He wants to get us much as he can before his NFL career comes to an end.
     
  4. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Garay is 32 and is finally getting a chance to cash in, can't blame him for waiting.
     
  5. TheLash

    TheLash Well-Known Member

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    I still hope we can keep him for a reasonable price. If that's possible with his agent.
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Except nobody is going to give a 32 year old NT a big payday...... the Chargers included.
     
  7. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Yeah but can't blame a guy for trying.

    And I wonder how Tommie Harris is doing, I'd love to have him back for another 2/3 year deal, he is a big upgrade over Cesaire.
     
  8. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Same thing....... old guy who plays limited snaps, means limited paycheck.

    That's just reality...... their agents can tell them any story they want. It won't change a thing.
     
  9. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Harris is only 28, and was great for us last year. And I was more refering to what happened with his wife and if he's planning on coming back at all.
     
  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Well, unless he made a lot of money already, he still has to raise his kids. Even the veteran minimum is a lot of money compared to most jobs.
     
  11. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I've read that Gregg is seriously contemplating retirement.
     
  12. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    The kicker here is that these guys aren't going to get a big money contract because those are 5+ year deals, and no one expects any of these guys to be playing in 5+ years. The only way a NT is going to get "Paid" is coming off of a rookie contract.
     
  13. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Precisely. Not sure that that's something that a lot of folks grasp. Unless they're coming off a rookie contract AND pushing Top 10 positional status simultaneously. Honestly it's not even the age that's necessarily the big concern from what I'm seeing (because DT's tend to not hit their prime until their late 20's/early 30's anyway), it's just the general effect of all that weight, coupled with the fact that very few NT's are 3-down players and 90% of the time, you're not going to get a big payday in the NFL if you're not a 3-down player. It applies to LB's, safeties, RB's, you name it - it's pretty simple expectation of return on investment. And between either their lack of utility or lack of necessary conditioning, rarely do you find NT's capable of being 3-down linemen.
     
  14. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I think part of it is that alot of 3-4 teams pull their NT in nickel situations for the extra DB, and a lot of 4-3 teams pull their NT in passing situations to put another 3 tech in their front.

    These are just big guys, and unless you're talking about someone who commands double teams and beats them regularly on running downs, the position just doesn't garner the kind of demand to merit those kinds of investments.
     
  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Pretty much. Occasionally you'll get guys like Ngata (though he doesn't really play the nose very often for Baltimore except in 4 downed-lineman looks), Raji (again, he actually plays more of a 5-Tech than a 0-Tech as the Packers tend to use more 2 downed-linemen sets than 3), Wilfork, or Jamal Williams type players who are versatile enough to play the 3-Tech in nickel and dime packages (and even then their teams sometimes pull the to protect them from injury and to give them a blow), but ironically enough in a day and age where 3-4 formations are at a peak, the premium on big fatties isn't so high that it merits forking over long-term, large contracts to anyone but the guys that are just shy of entering their prime, not those that are in the middle of, tailing off on, or past their primes.
     
  16. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Hang on though, if your NT sucks in 3-4, you're toast. It's a key position. You guys want Ian Scott back? Or an early rounder? Not saying that Garay deserves $$$$$$$$, but let's not underplay the importance of 3-4 NT.
     
  17. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    No one's underplaying it, just saying that NT's unless they're just entering their prime don't get lengthy contracts - and "big pay days" typically only come with lengthy contracts, because no team is going to give out a ginormous signing bonus if they don't have a favorable number of years to prorate the cap hit of that signing bonus over. Very likely our offer to Garay is (based upon what we've typically seen from AJ to aging vets) a 1-2 year deal. 2 years isn't enough to get him a sizable signing bonus, which may well be what Rosenhaus keeps assuring him that he'll be able to (or would be able to0 get for him.

    If our team is treating Cam Thomas like he is our future at the NT position (which given the amount of PT he's gotten so far there's no reason to believe they aren't) then there's no reason to have Garay under contract for longer than 2 years (particularly at his age) unless it's a very team-friendly contract on the back-end.

    Edit: BTW, how with the current DT's on the market do you substantiate jumping from Garay all the way to Ian Scott? There are even guys who have experience on our team and in our scheme that are on the market who are better than Scott, like Brandon McKinney. I'm not even sure Scott is still in the league. Outside of Garay there are currently at least 4-5 experience 3-4 NT's still on the market who are capable of working productively in a timeshare with Cam at the spot. It's not like we're in slim pickings right now.
     
  18. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Agree that Garay ain't going to get what his agent wants.
    Disagree on the workingman NT comparisons. McKinney vs Scott? Wash cause we don't want either being the sole vet to share time with Thomas. From what I see, you have 3 flavors of NT: Jamal, Garay, Scott being examples. Oversimplification sure, but as you know this ain't plug and play, and we don't want to step down in talent from Garay. Thus, it's not going to be easy to find a replacement for Garay. And that's the game that Rosenhaus is playing. Course he knows that it's piss in the wind against AJ, but it's his job to max potential earnings.

    Be interesting to see how it goes. But the Chargers like Garay, and they need someone solid to man that position.

    EDIT: I could've made this post a lot shorter by just saying: 'there are 2 sides to the coin, but you don't want to short circuit your NT position in the name of value' ;)
     
  19. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    It's not trying to acquire value, it's avoiding devastating your team with poor cap management.
     
  20. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    All 3-4 teams need a decent NT. They don't grow on trees.
     
  21. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    One thing you're either discounting or not accounting for in this is another year in the development of Cam Thomas. He's not likely to remain at the same point in his development as he was during last season. To be honest, a step up in Cam's development doesn't leave much deviation from the visible step backward that Garay took last season compared to 2010's campaign. So it's entirely plausible that our need is for an equal or greater fill for what Thomas provided us last season.

    My point is that too many people get bent out of shape that we have to have these former Pro Bowlers (sorry, I'll still trust the tape over both the fan and player votes for the Pro Bowl) or guys who were starters for other teams - whether the defenses of the teams they are coming from were terribly effective or not. Roleplayers and workmen are equally necessities for teams. Rarely are you going to find veterans capable of starting willing to come in and compete/split time with a younger up-and-comer because they know that that younger player is the one the franchise is going to view as the future at the position - that is unless said vet is handsomely compensated (and look at our cap situation right now... we can't afford to handsomely compensate anyone at this point this season).
     
  22. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I'll withhold comment on Cam's further development until it's proven. That jury is still very much out for me.

    While I agree that there's definitely a shorter shelf life for the great big uglies who fight in the trenches, I also agree with FCBolt that you can in no way discount the importance of NT to a 3-4 defense. I don't endorse giving Garay a long contract but, until I see far more commitment from this FO to the position, I'm very loathe to see him leave.

    Either way, NT should be a position addressed in the draft.
     
  23. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    All teams need WRs, too. Should the Chargers give a 6 year 65 million dollar contract to the 30th best starting wideout in the league, simply because all teams need WRs?

    The point isn't whether or not all 3-4 teams need a decent NT to be successful or not, it's obvious that they do (Chargers@Vikings 2007 is what happens to a 3-4 team without a nose in close game / game where you're behind). The point is that paying an older, "decent" NT premium FA money is stupid, because you're crippling your team both now (high cap number) and in the long run (long contracts have severe penalties for cutting players long after the contract is signed).

    Paying premium dollars for non-elite players crucifies your team on that contract.
     
  24. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Like I say, I agree that Garay doesn't deserve (and probably won't get) what he and his agent want. And like LBC said, we have little wiggle room under cap now anyway. I'm just saying it's a position of concern. Going with Thomas and <fill in the blank cheap mediocre veteran> is a dice roll.
     
  25. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more about Thomas. Seemed like he made a decent 2gap DE during a couple preseason games (for whatever those are worth). But jury a long way from delivering anything @ NT.
     
  26. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Oh, don't get me wrong, it is absolutely a dice roll, and if Cam doesn't measure up and/or the rest of the depth/starter isn't good enough then we're probably screwed against any team with a running game (of which we play several this season).

    That doesn't make it worthwhile to give an average NT (reasonable assessment on Garay and most of the remaining FA NTs to me) elite NT money, let alone elite player money, over a contract term that will either A) crucify our cap situation next season or B) Force us to hang onto a player in spite of a depreciated skillset (See Castillo)
     
  27. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Watch out - Bluey is circling around behind you. ;)
     
  28. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Not worried he'll just send his mini-babyzilla gif...
     
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  29. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    He started it. ;)

    In fact, the whole Baby Zilla business sprouted from Ringo saying early on, that Cam Thomas was no lock to even make the roster. I begged to differ.

    [​IMG]
     
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  30. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Not inconsistent with my epitaph
    [​IMG]
     

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