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Getting The Facts Right, About Chargers Moving to L.A. / Spreckels

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Lance19, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I don't start many threads here, but the Chargers' public hearing is less than 5 days away.

    The NFL may well ignore their own rules about teams have to prove that they're truly
    making a good faith effort to stay in the community that has been supporting them
    (for almost 55 years in this case), but still, it may be the only chance hard-core Charger fans
    have a chance to be heard.

    So I'm thinking that a thread--about the actual facts of the situation--could be useful...
    especially to those who get to speak at the Spreckel's Theatre on the 28th.
    The more the fans get their facts straight, the more seriously they deserve to be taken.

    The thing I'm most curious about is that "25%" number the Chargers keep throwing around,
    supposedly the percentage of their season ticket holders in L.A. and Orange Counties.

    It seems to be the cornerstone of their argument, as to why they need to leave...that if the
    Chargers lose that 25% to a new L.A. team, the Chargers won't be able to fill a stadium here.

    It just sounds bogus to me. I've been to a lot of games at the Q over the decades, and met
    lots of fans in all sections of the stadium. Very few have been from north of San Clemente, but the
    Spanos family keeps insisting that fully 1 in 4 people in that stadium are from even further north than that!

    So my question is: has the NFL (or any independent body) ever verified that number?
    Have the Chargers shown league auditors zip code records, etc., that prove that assertion?
    If they have, okay. Add that to the debate. But I'm real skeptical and would like to know if it's
    ever actually been established...or merely a claim by a front office (that has incentive to lie).

    So if anyone knows...please post. And if anyone else has fact-based concerns, that should be
    brought up Wednesday...please post.

    (I'm not a naive guy...and there's likely that nothing fans do will matter.
    But if we do end up losing the team, I want to at least feel that I went down swinging)
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  2. House of Hayne

    House of Hayne Chargers Smash

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    I'm a season ticket holder and I live in corona ca
    So I'm in that demographic
     
  3. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    The way I look at it is like this:

    The stadium holds 70 thousand.
    Roughly 20 to 5o per cent of that potential 70 thou attending a game could be or are opposing fans.
    The average attendance at a home game is anywhere from 60 to 65 thousand.
    If the preceeding statement is true, then 25% is only 15,000. Of course that is basing the figure assuming that all of the fans attending are Chargers fans.
    In reality, you can expect that at an average Chargers game, there will be 40 thousand Chargers fans, and only about 10 thousand of that number are from Orange County or Los Angeles.
    Just a guess here, this is probably the most "Opposing Fan" friendly stadium in the league. You go to a NYGiantz game, look into the stands and there are 80 to 90 percent G-men fans in those seats. Maybe even moreso in places like KayCee, Philly, SanFran, Nawlins, etc. You look into our stands for a game, and you see turrible towels everywhere because supposed diehard Bolts fans found a way to make bank by selling their tickets to a relative or buddy that supports the opposing team. Opposing fans do not fear coming here to the Q because it is practically home away from home for them. Yeah, those 25% LA fans are coming this weekend, but they are wearing black and silver on Sunday. I guess the Spanos family is merely counting heads, and not the true Chargers fans that SHOULD BE in those seats!
    IMHO
     
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  4. House of Hayne

    House of Hayne Chargers Smash

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    It's true they are counting ticket sales and not who's team bought them
     
  5. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    Are there any "numbers" for fans that come from the "South", Lancelot ?

    I feel a little under-appreciated right now. :(

    Those figures are total crap and anyone with a half a clue knows it Lance, on any given home game, there's no way that 25% of the crowd are Chargers season ticket holders from OC and Northwards, if you believe that, I have a rather "large pebble" for sale down here if anyone is interested.
     
  6. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I dont know, drive the 15 or 5 early on a Sunday. @Savage Lizard comes from Big Bear. I can tell you living in Riverside County that there are a lot of season ticket holders up here.
     
  7. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    I still believe the percentages are skewed. Just a thought, what about those fans that are NOT season ticket holders, but they still come to the games? Where do you place that group?
     
  8. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I believe that figure includes tickets sold to ticket brokers in that region, so there's no telling whether they're being bought by Chargers fans, or fans of the opposing team. Their 25% LA area "fanbase" claim is dubious at best.
     
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  9. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    This ^

    Although I presume that they can technically prove their "dubious" 25% claim by being very creative, they will have difficulty proving that tickets are not being sold to outside of the County zip codes in unusually large blocks.

    It has been brought up by some people that this 25% argument is a ploy to make $$$ out of the NFL by this Ownership if their relocation application to LA is denied. I think that there is a lot of validity hinting toward this being a Spanos play.
     
  10. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    Devoted Charger fan who grew up in Azusa and Glendora (San Gabriel Valley, about 30 minutes outside LA) then moved to Corona. Spent nearly 30 years as a Charger diehard fan from up there. Moved to San Marcos 4 years ago, so now I'm down here but there are fans up there. I highly doubt its 25% though. Would think 10% is a far closer number.
     
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  11. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

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    When I was a season ticket holder I made the drive to the Q from Orange county many Sundays.
    I have a hard time with 25% and if had to bet I would go with under 10%, and like this weekend Raiders games I would see just as much silver and black.
    :raiderssuck:
     
  12. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    One thing that is not being considered is those who WANT to go to a game, but won't because the Q is a dump. With a newer stadium with better seating and everything else, you will get more people coming to a game.

    This is what happened with the Cardinals. When they moved to Arizona, all of their games were blacked out as no one would go to a game at Sun Devils stadium. They get their new indoor stadium and you get fans in the seats. Granted we don't have to worry about blackouts now that the NFL has put them on hold for at least this season. But a new stadium will bring new fans in.
     
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  13. Montrose

    Montrose BoltTalker

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    The facts are that LA is full of weirdos and it smells funny. That is plenty reason for the team to stay in SD.

    But if you need more...Chewbacca is a wookie, why would an 8ft tall wookie want to live on Endor with a bunch of 2ft tall ewoks. That does not make sense. The Chargers must stay in SD...

    The defence rests...:)
     
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  14. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Are you talking LA or Liverpool?
     
  15. Montrose

    Montrose BoltTalker

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    Potato potato
    Tomato tomato
    Let's call the whole thing off...

    And just like that the Chargers are staying in SD...
     
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  16. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

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    I have never had an issue with the "Q" I don't see that as a reason as a fan wont go to a game.

    I think its more about the cost and a new stadium wont help with the cost for a family...
     
  17. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Never had an issue going to game at the Q either. But, having been to Denver for a game, I can definitely see difference between a football only stadium vs. one that used to hold MLB and the NFL.

    As to your other point, going to an NFL game has never been an affordable option for a family. It ain't going to cost any less in the future, in any city.
     
  18. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

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    I just saw the paper today that says the Chargers have filed some paperwork with the NFL to move to LA... hey Spanos just go f*ck yourself and the horse you rode in on.

    You're nothing but an arrogant, money grubbing jerkoff who has no loyalty for the 50+ good years this city has given the chargers. We've lined your pockets with our hard-earned cash and fattening that f*cking wallet of yours. You want that LA market and all the dollar signs it's going to pay you? You want to leave? Go the f*ck ahead.

    But when those sleazy LA rat b@stards turn on you after a year or two, may you rot in he11 and go deadbeat, down-on-your-luck broke. I hope you lose every penny and can't afford the toilet paper to take a crap. Just don't come slithering back to San Diego and expect this city to do anything but sh!t in your face.

    Arrogant asses like Spanos- I hope the pig f***ker chokes on that LA money. Yeah go the F*ck to Los Angeles you ungrateful sonovabitchin' B@st@rd!
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2015
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  19. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    ^^^ and it's not even 10:00 PM yet :laugh:
     
  20. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    you are my new favorite poster :tup:
     
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  21. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    MUH 25%

    LOL yeah, screw the other 75% right? GTFO already
     
  22. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    If, after providing a mediocre product here in San Diego for 50 years, Spanos believes he will find a stronger fan base in L.A., he is dead wrong. Angelinos are less supportive of "also ran" football teams than San Diegans. Both cities are in SO/CAL with tons of other things to do, and both are full of transplants from other parts of the nation.

    Some thoughts about the OP's point:
    Even if you take Spanos' 25% LA/OC claim at face value, that means the Boltz are willing to dump a very established SD fan base, the remaining 75%. (The smaller the actual LA/OC value, the more "valued" customers they are willing to lose).
    In most businesses, losing 75% of their existing clients would amount to suicide. But I tend to think the move is less about Joe Blow fans and more about big money income streams like skyboxes, PSLs, naming rights, leases, contracts, etc. It's very possible that the Spanos' brain trust foresees an opportunity to move the team and sell it, capitalizing on a (possibly short term) spike in net value. I mean, if they could theoretically pick up an extra $250 mil or so by dumping their existing fan base, moving, and selling, they're probably going to do it.
     
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  23. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    THIS SO MUCH

    great post
     
  24. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Of course they are willing to dump the fan base. They still have no new stadium. The one they are in is the joke of the league, and SD really cant get it together and get a new one.

    What would you do? People are saying the Chargers have no loyalty SD who has supported them for decades. Well shouldn't any loyalty be reciprocated? Has it been? I have not seen the City council of SD EVER support the Chargers unless they could get in on a parade for free face time.

    I cant blame the Chargers for moving. If you do, so be it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  25. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    It's way too early for me, but just quickly off the top of my head:

    - Shirley you have not forgotten about that "brilliant" ticket guarantee period during which the Chargers were the consummate door mats of the AFCW!

    - Currently the Mission Valley site is on the table but the Chargers have rejected it as unfeasible. They also had shut down all other feasibility studies in locales such as Oceanside and Chula Vista. They only want Down Town or else!
     
  26. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Explain to me why the ticket guarantee is still held against the Chargers. Are you telling me if you were the Chargers you would not go for the ticket guarantee? The city still made money off of the Chargers with the ticket guarantee...
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1839120

    Hmm... Seems the Chargers were in on the ending of the guarantee, hoping that the city and the Chargers could figure out how to work things out going forward... How did that work out?

    Is the Mission Valley site actually on the table? Is it real? It seems a lot of 'ifs' and 'possibles' right now. Do you suggest the Chargers put everything on hold based on that? Would you if you owned the Chargers. After 14 or 15 years I would not. I would not trust this city in the slightest if I were the Chargers.

    The Chargers could have begun moving as early as 2007 with the new lease. Thy didnt. They sought to stay here. They sought to work with the city to get a decent venue and NOTHING worked. Now, 8 years from the point they could have moved, and chose not to so many fans are surprised that the Chargers are sick and tired of this city, the community and the inability to actually accomplish anything.

    However, I doubt that ANY of you, if it were your business would be so patient and willing to put up with SD and it's inability to find it's as$ with both hands.
     
  27. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Shirley, must have really enjoyed all those years of sub 0.500 with such illustrious HOF'ers as: Jermaine Fazande, Bryan Still, Freddie Jones, Mikael Ricks and the one who shall not be named. All during the ticket guarantee era ;)
     
  28. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok, care to explain the leap of logic where you want to equate the evil of the ticket guarantee to years where the Chargers put together bad teams?

    One might argue and I definitely WOULD argue that without the ticket guarantee the team building while having flashes has NEVER been the show case of the NFL. Thus, why you throwing Fishes? Red herrings stink.

    The ticket guarantee started in what, 1977? Went to what? 2007... With winning records mixed in, a Super Bowl appearance, I would suggest the argument you are putting forth is weak sauce that hasn't been removed from the packet as of yet....

    So... Why is the poor play of the Chargers indicating that the City has worked with the Chargers to get a new stadium, when the City allowed the stadium to fall into disrepair just years after renovating it?

    I will say this; One side has made steps to work together to try and get a new stadium....

    The other side had Frys and Aguirres....

    Hate the Chargers if it makes their move more palatable for you, but don't pretend you would do any differently if you were in charge of the Chargers....
     
  29. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Conc is fulla beans today. I don't hate the Chargers yet, but I may after today ;)
     
  30. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Some would argue, based on jet power I am full of beans or their by product all too often...

    Just sayin...
     

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