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HC changes don't always work out

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Only Rex Ryan and Jim Schwartz left in 11-man coaching Class of ’09
    By Doug Farrar

    Andrew Siciliano of the NFL Network had quite the interesting factoid to open Tuesday's Total Access show. With the firing of Indianapolis Colts head coach Jim Caldwell, all but two head coaches hired by NFL teams in 2009 — a total of nine names — has been fired. Only Rex Ryan of the New York Jets and Jim Schwartz of the Detroit Lions remain.

    And you thought the draft class of 2009 was a howler — well, it seems that the coaching fraternity that year was even iffier from a long-term perspective. Coaches don't usually last long in this game at the best of times, but it's unusual that we'll see a near-total blackout of an entire year of coaches just three full seasons after their hires. Caldwell was hired as Tony Dungy's replacement, and it was expected that once Peyton Manning got hurt before the 2011 season, things were going to fall apart. That was as much about the personal missteps of Bill and Chris Polian (who are also gone in Indy) as anything Caldwell did, but there you go. 2-14 says what it says.

    As for the other eight names gone, let's do a quick "Where Are They Now?":

    Josh McDaniels, Denver Broncos — Hired to replace Mike Shanahan and immediately went on a personnel rampage that had Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, and Peyton Hillis out the door. Won his first six games in 2009 and went 5-17 thereafter. Was fired after Week 13 of the 2010 season, but he also drafted Tim Tebow in the first round of the 2010 NFL Draft, so he's got that going for him. McDaniels coordinated St. Louis' offense in 2011 to minimal effect, and he was last seen running back to New England to replace Bill O'Brien as the Patriots' offensive coordinator — the position he held before Denver hired him.

    Jim Mora, Seattle Seahawks — The former Atlanta Falcons head coach was brought over by former Seahawks GM Tim Ruskell to replace Mike Holmgren, and that move was announced before Holmgren's last season, effectively making Holmgren a lame duck at the end of a very successful decade. Mora was an unmitigated disaster in 2009, using tough talk and throwing kicker Olindo Mare under the bus after a loss to the Chicago Bears. He was fired after one season, took a year off to do analysis at the NFL Network and other places, and recently replaced Rick Neuheisel as UCLA's head coach.

    Eric Mangini, Cleveland Browns — Mangini was retained by Holmgren, the Browns' new team president, after a 5-11 season in 2009, but the same record in 2010 sealed his fate. Like McDaniels, he's seen as proof positive that Bill Belichick's acolytes aren't always getting the lessons of the master, but he's been doing an outstanding job as an ESPN analyst of late. Of all the coaches on this list, he's probably got the best shot at another head coaching gig.

    Mike Singletary, San Francisco 49ers — The Hall of Fame linebacker was less impressive as a head coach — he was more famous for pulling his pants down in the locker room as a motivational tactic, benching tight end Vernon Davis mid-game, and a series of very interesting press conferences. Last seen as the linebackers coach for the Minnesota Vikings.

    Tom Cable, Oakland Raiders — Cable put together a fairly impressive Raiders team in his two full seasons as the head coach; he was actually hired as an interim head coach with five weeks gone in the 2008 season. However, disagreements with Al Davis, and a series of embarrassing allegations regarding a violent past and present, sealed his fate there. Cable was last seen doing a very impressive job with the Seattle Seahawks' offensive line.

    Todd Haley, Kansas City Chiefs — The man who put together the offense that got the Arizona Cardinals to Super Bowl XLIII got off to a great start with the Chiefs — they were the AFC's surprise team of 2010 with a 10-6 record. But a disappointing follow-up year — and apparently, some really weird stuff going on in the Chiefs' front office — set things on the wrong path. Last rumored to be scouted as the Jets' passing game coach, Haley is still looking for a new place to land, but he'll probably get another shot as a head coach down the road. Underrated as a pure football guy.

    Steve Spagnuolo, St. Louis Rams — "Spags" was the Giants' defensive coordinator when the G-Men upset Josh McDaniels' combustible Patriots offense in Super Bowl XLII, and that got him the job with the Rams as Scott Linehan's full-time replacement. Following a 1-15 season with a depleted roster, Spagnuolo went 7-9 in 2010 with new quarterback Sam Bradford and what looked to be an improved team. But a huge host of injuries blew the Rams apart in 2011, and Spagnuolo was sent packing in favor of Jeff Fisher. He might wind up replacing Gregg Williams, Fisher's new defensive coordinator, in New Orleans.

    Raheem Morris, Tampa Bay Buccaneers — A longtime big name as a defensive backs coach before his head coaching hire by the Bucs, Morris matched Haley's surprise accomplishment in the NFC by leading his team to a 10-6 record in 2010 after a 3-13 first season. In 2011, Josh Freeman's regression and an unusually porous defense front sunk Tampa Bay in a ridiculously competitive NFC South. He was recently hired by the Washington Redskins to coach their defensive backs, and he'll probably get another shot down the road. Still a highly-respected name.
     
  2. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    STOP BEING LOGICAL!
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I think Rex is next to go.

    Dwindling fortunes, locker room implosion, unreasonable New York fans..... No way this ends well. ;)
     
  4. Nomad

    Nomad Very Senior Member

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    Can we sign Raheem Morris as our DB coach?
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Can you read? ;)

     
  6. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Give me a break blue , none of these situations were like our current one.

    Tom Cable - WAS ON HIS WAY UP! IT WAS WORKING! Its the Raiders, they shouldn't even count!

    Todd Haley - Won the division in 2010. Lost it when Charles, Jones, Moeaki, Berry and eventually Cassel all hit IR.

    Josh McDaniels - Traded their 2 best players and took over a team transitioning to the 3-4 defense despite not having any of the required talent to do it.......failure was pretty much inevitable. He was a bridge to John Fox who (like Jeff Fisher) is a proven winner when he has a competant QB.

    Jim Mora - Took over a talentless Seahawks team with a washed up Hasselbeck. 1 year is never enough to rebuild a franchise.

    Eric Mangini - Derek Anderson/Seneca Wallace and a horrendous defense. It never had a chance. Again, it takes more than 1 year to rebuild a franchise.

    Raheem Morris - Won HC of the year award with a rookie QB. This is a guy who should have gotten 1 more year despite a bad 2011 season.

    Steve Spagnulo - Extremely promising start, then Bradford got hurt and it fell apart in 2011. At least they got Jeff Fisher.

    Mike Singletary - Terrible coach who held his team down. He deserve to be fired.

    Norv Turner - Took a 14-2 team with a world of talent, and after 5 years they have crashed back to mediocrity. No other way to put it. Did Rivers get hurt? No. Did their defense suck? No. Did they have injuries? A few, but nothing crippling, and Gaither was a diamond in the rough and an immediate success.

    5 years is more than any of those guys had, and he took over a team that was already good!
     
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  7. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    If what this thread implies is that you should never fire your coach, then it is amazingly stupid.
     
  8. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    You obviously forgot about Rivers playing in the AFC Championship on one leg (without an ACL), and without LT (injured knee). Two injuries. But don't let the facts get in the way of your whining.
     
  9. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    That was FOUR YEARS AGO and it was basically Marty's team, and every year since we've gotten farther from actually returning to the AFC Championship game. One AFC Championship appearence 4 years ago is STUPID argument for keeping Norv.

    As far as whining goes, have you ever hear the saying..."the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? You should be glade your fellow Charger fans still care about winning and havn't reached the stage of indifference that accompanies a future move to LA.
     
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  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    This thread is a posting of an article on the world wide web....... whatever you read into it, is strictly your business. ;)
     
  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Since when did Marty have anything to do with drafting the roster, or signing the free agents? AJ and Marty weren't even on speaking terms, for crying out loud.

    AJ had some good drafts in the beginning, and a lot of bad drafts lately....... the decline in this team is mainly due to the GM.
     
  12. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    What's "amazingly stupid" is drawing that conclusion from the article. :D

    What it shows, is that coaching changes are a crap shoot....... change doesn't necessarily bring success. You have to find the right person to coach, and have the right mixture of talent to be successful in the NFL. If you're lacking in either area, you aren't going to be successful.
     
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  13. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    AJ is partly to blame for sure, English and Davis were embarrassingly awful draft picks, and I think Liuget is a bad fit too. But at some point you have to ask the coach to take the players and develop them into NFL players. And we have landed some good ones that were not first rounders like Tolbert, Garay, Weddle, Martin, Barnes, Vasquez, Butler, Burnett (despite not being able to re-sign him) etc...

    At least Marty groomed the talent we did have into a complete team. Norv can't groom anything but QBs, because he's a play caller, not a coach!
     
  14. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    AJ is "partly to blame"?..... try mostly to blame. How many 1st rounders of his have been complete busts?

    How many HCs call the plays as well?........ if you think that Norv doesn't have to delegate duties like substitutions, then you're nor being realistic. Shelmon was responsible for the RBs, so if you want to bash somebody for the RB substitutions, bash him.

    A HC is not the one who develops players, that's the job of the position coaches...... that's what they are their for. Marty didn't develop player either. First and foremost, Marty was a motivator...... he wasn't the much of an X's and O's guy.

    As far as questionable calls go, how 'bout Marty deciding to go for it on 4th and 11 in the playoffs, instead of kicking a fieldgoal. If that's the kind of leadership you're pining for, then the lord help you.

    PS........ just remember, hiring Norv was AJ's doing too. ;)
     
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  15. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    And you just remember AJ helped build this team into relevance, Norv is just riding the ship. But I don't actually have a problem with firing AJ, I have a serious problem with firing neither of them.

    Don't start playing revisionist history either, Norv's play calling for the first 11 weeks was PUTRID, particularly when we got into the redzone. Only when we reached complete desperation at 4-7 did Norv start manning up, his timidness, lack of preperation for other teams game plans and some times flat out stupidity cost us this season.


    And wether you'd like to admit it or not the Chargers have been huge favorites to win the divison (in Vegas, not just pundits) for the last 5 years even after the coaching change and it wasn't because Norv was so brilliant with Washington and Oakland, it was because we have the most talent in the division, and we have the best QB in the division by a long shot.
     
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  16. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Wow. You have a level of ADD that's staggering. Really. As for LA, the team could have moved ANYTIME over that same time period. And they haven't.
     
  17. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    'HC changes don't always work out'

    Your damm right they don't. Luckily we re-hired Norv again so it's a win/win.
     
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  18. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    ...yet.

    Hopefully they don't.
     
  19. starry

    starry BoltTalker

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    Nothing is a completely a crap shoot with people making the right decisions after thorough research and scouting.
     
  20. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Amazingly stupid post... That seems to be the theme of this thread isnt it, labeling everything you disagree with as stupid... OK I am your huckelberry...

    So you say that AJ is partly to blame. That Norv took over the most talented team evah and drove it into the ground... And in the same post talk about how the first round picks since then have not fared well... Then you talk about the SUPPORT players that AJ has brough in who have played at a very good SUPPORT level, but none (with the exception of Weddle) have relly stood out to a star STARTER level with any consistency.

    Yeah, its all the coach....:rolleyes:
     
  21. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I know... Lets show the Chargers we are unhappy!

    CANCEL YOU NFL TICKET AND POST AT BOLTTALK!

    VIVA LA REVOLUTION!
     
  22. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Is this just your selective reading coming back, laziness, or are you actually to stupid to read my follow up posts to that one?

    I would be fine if AJ got fired! He is the reason Norv is here! Same with Cottrell and Manusky, two of the worst coordinators imaginable for the talent we did have on the field. He has earned the firing too.

    But unlike you I realize that 1st round picks are not the only players that matter. We have enough talent left from the 03-06 years, and have hit on enough 2nd day picks and UDFAs since then that we should not be losing the division to Matt Cassel and Tim Tebow in back to back years.

    They can both go, its the firing of neither that I have a real damn problem with.
     
  23. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    The Bolt's have one championship and none of the HC's have delivered since. Yeah, let's switch now!!!!
     
  24. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Am I stupid?... I must be I entered into a conversation with you...

    /conversation.
     
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  25. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    When in doubt, whine.
     
  26. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    oooookaaaaayeeeeeeee
     
  27. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    That's right, know your limits. Lol
     
  28. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  29. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    OK, lets examine that draft period, shall we?

    2003 - Scifres is the only player left...... great punter.

    2004 - Rivers..... great QB (except for a large portion of this season), Phillips... our best OLB, Hardwick.... quality center, and Kaeding.... great regular season, wets the bed in the playoffs.

    2005 - Castillo.... never lived up to his draft position, Jackson..... excellent WR when healthy, and Mruczkowski..... O-line depth.

    2006 - McNeill...... good LT, when healthy, and Clary...... the fans favorite whipping boy.

    So, looking at the past season, Kaeding played exactly one play before going on IR. Phillips missed 4 games due to injury. Hardwick played the whole season, though missed time in one game. Castillo broke his leg early and eventually went on IR. Jackson was hampered buy a couple different muscle type injuries. Mruczkowski got injured and went on IR. McNeill re-injured his neck and went on IR. Lastly, Clary played the entire season, but was average as far as RT's go.

    Out of the 10 players left from the 2003 - 2006 drafts, 4 ended up on IR this year. Phillips missed significant time, and Jackson was gimpy and ineffective in a number of games.
     
  30. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Yeah, Parcels really fixed up Dallas and Miami. The Rat is doing a bang up job in Washington isn't he???
     

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