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HOLY COW!!!!

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by PowderLove, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    September 18, 2007

    <!-- BODYTEXT -->A local real estate and finance firm is pitching a plan to city and county officials to convert Qualcomm Stadium into a $2.2 billion sports, entertainment, residential and commercial development that would include a new Chargers stadium and an arena.

    The plan is to convert Qualcomm into a sports arena by renovating and enclosing it. It would become the home of a professional basketball or hockey team and would host concerts and trade shows, according to a proposal by CB Richard Ellis Capital Markets Debt and Equity Finance.
    “This would create a world-class sports and entertainment destination for San Diego,” said Jeff Rice, senior financial analyst for CB Richard Ellis, who developed the plan over four years. “It would be a place that could host Super Bowls, soccer championships, major concerts and trade shows.”
    City and county officials said yesterday that they have not had time to analyze the plan.
    Ellis said developing the property could generate millions for the city in annual hotel room, property, sales and other taxes. The city currently operates the stadium at an annual deficit of about $10 million.
    The proposal includes about 20 projects at the 166-acre Qualcomm Stadium property that would be built in phases over about 20 years. They include four hotels, office buildings with retail space, 1,500 apartments, student housing, three parking garages, a shopping center, a 16-acre park and an electronic display similar to Times Square in New York City.
    The Chargers and the National Football League would pay most of the costs for the new stadium, with the city and county pitching in $50 million each in bond financing for a $600 million facility – a cost the Chargers believe is low. The city also would be expected to contribute an additional $50 million in bond financing for a $190 million arena.
    <!-- BEGIN:SIDEBAR --><!--startclickprintexclude--><TABLE cellPadding=5 width=250 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=15 width=240 bgColor=#dfdfdf border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Overview
    Background: The Chargers are narrowing their search for a new stadium to two sites in Chula Vista and one in Oceanside.
    What's changing: A local real estate firm is proposing a stadium and arena at the Qualcomm Stadium site. San Diego and county officials said they haven't reviewed the plan yet. The future: The Chargers want to select a site by the end of the year. Tonight, the Chula Vista City Council is scheduled to vote on whether to adopt a land-use study that selected the 135-acre South Bay Power Plant site on the city's bayfront and a 500-acre vacant parcel on the city's east side as suitable stadium locations. The meeting starts at 6 p.m. at Chula Vista City Hall, 276 Fourth Ave.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!--endclickprintexclude--><!-- END:SIDEBAR -->Rice, a San Diego State University graduate, said he began researching the proposal because he feared his alma mater would not have a place to play football if the Chargers developed a stadium in another city. He said the plan was developed independently of a group of businessmen who have been working on their own stadium development plan for the Qualcomm site.
    He said the plan is “fiscally responsible” and should be considered by the city if it wants to make money at the Mission Valley site.
    “If the mayor doesn't deem that this plan has enough merit to pursue it, then what can you do?” Rice said. “It's pretty much a dead issue.”
    Some elements of the Ellis proposal are similar to a development plan that the Chargers proposed for the Qualcomm Stadium site in 2003. But the Chargers wanted to build more than 6,000 condos, which would have required the city to give the team ownership of the acreage where the housing was built. Team executives abandoned that plan in early 2006.
    The Chargers are now evaluating two sites in Chula Vista and one in Oceanside for a new stadium. A group of businessmen, including members of the San Diego Regional Economic Development Corp., were working on a Qualcomm Stadium development option in case efforts failed in Chula Vista and Oceanside. But they say the focus should now be on the two Chula Vista sites that were identified as best suited for a stadium in a study released last week.
    Under the Ellis plan, the real estate firm would oversee the deal and bring in a master developer to organize the project. Separate developers would handle parts of the plan after entering into long-term leases with the city. Once the debt was retired on any project within the development, the developer would have the right to negotiate with the city to buy that portion of the property.
    The Chargers have met with Rice about his plan but aren't optimistic.
    “The basic fact is that a project of this magnitude is unlikely to move ahead in a city like San Diego, where you have an indifferent mayor and an openly hostile city attorney,” Fabiani said.
    Mayor Jerry Sanders has a copy of the proposal but has not had time to review it. City Attorney Michael Aguirre said he had not read it, nor had Councilwoman Donna Frye, whose district includes Qualcomm Stadium.
    A spokesman for county Supervisor Ron Roberts said he had not read it. Supervisor Dianne Jacob said she had not seen the proposal, but she supports a new stadium at the Qualcomm site as part of a “world-class sports complex.” Her idea includes youth sports facilities, trails, parks and housing and educational facilities for SDSU.
     
  2. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    Sorry, I fixed the formatting.
     
  3. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    I got to the part where it says "The city also would be expected to contribute an additional $50 million..." and stopped reading.

    Never gonna happen. **** the city of San Diego.
     
  4. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the $172 million from the city is what will kill the plan. No way do Emperor Aguirre's monkeys on the city council do that.
    :no:
     
  5. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    We need to visit city hall and "fix" the problem. I'll get the storm troopers ready.
     
  6. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Aguirre will be gone in 14 months or so

    and this could be plausible pitch to the City since that's a small contribution in comparison to the 'billions' it will cost to build the stadium and basically for that money you get a replacement for the sports arena and the Q.

    I think this would be a good win-win, we keep the chargers and the city doesn't spend that much money
     
  7. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Combined with the PSLs they want the Charger fans to pay, asking the San Diego community as a whole to come up with 1/6 the cost of the $2.2 billion is quite reasonable.

    Now, we just need to see how many people agree.
     
  8. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    I think it sounds like a good place to start. Won't make any difference how many people agree, though, since Aguirre will try to torpedo it. Fabiani won't even talk to him, and with good reason. Aguirre is nothing more and nothing less than an ego driven obstructionist.
     
  9. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is why Fabiani wants to bypass him, the San Diego City Council, any city council for that matter, and put it up for a general vote by the city's residents (San Diego, Chula Vista, or Oceanside).

    That way, if the voters approve it, then the city council really can't go against the will of the people, if they want to keep their jobs.
     
  10. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    POWER TO THE PEOPLE BABY!!!! I'll pay a couple dollars more in taxes each year if that means the Chargers stay in Mission Valley.
     
  11. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    Those quoted costs seem ridiculously low, considering new prices for stadiums/arenas. I think the Cowboys new stadium is over $1 billion, and the San Antonio Spurs new arena cost well over $200 million - FIVE years ago.

    I used the two new Texas stadium/arenas for emphasis. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, it's much cheaper to build in Texas than in high priced Southern California. Just in basic labor, transportation and energy costs, we're probably 30-40% cheaper here.

    Those figures quoted in that article should be doubled - minimum.


    Looks like fantasy voodoo economics to me .....
     
  12. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    :crying: :(
     
  13. sdbound

    sdbound Well-Known Member

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    That's because in California we build structures out of steel and concrete where as in Texas they use mud.
     
  14. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    The entire cost of the proposed Chargers complex is estimated at $2.2 billion.

    These guys want the San Diego community to foot 1/6 of the bill ($172 million from the city, and $180 million in PSL sales).

    The $600 million stadium is modest, close to the cost of the Cardinals stadium.

    The Cowboys' $1 billion stadium is largely due to Jerry Jones' fetish for 8 video-boards / TV screens inside. Also, he plans on seating 80,000 in that behemoth expandable to 100,000 for special events, instead of the more reserved 65,000 or so proposed for our new stadium. Then Jones wants a 86 foot high glass curtain wall for some Cowboy related ****.
     
  15. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    You should see the SBC/ATT Center for the Spurs .... or Reliant Stadium for the Texans. Palaces.

    Serious. I hope SD gets state of the art sports facilities like those.

    I also think getting hoops/hockey in SD is a pipe dream. I was a kid that attended many San Diego Rockets games, and a teenager who loved watching Lloyd Free, Kermit Washington and the rest of a bunch of try hard losers for the SD Clippers. I don't think the NBA or NHL will ever fare well in San Diego.

    Focus on the Chargers and get a stadium deal done.
     
  16. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    No doubt that Smiley Jones is going all out, but a big part of the price increase has been because of the rising transportation (fuel) and steel prices. Both are skyrocketing.

    The costs in SD will be somewhere in between $500'ish million for the Cards stadium (only cost $18.5 mill for the AZ land) and the $1 billion for the Steers new Dallas/Ft. Worth home.

    Labor costs will be crazy. Same with the Environmental issues (the underground tank farm problems). Not to mention the extra costs associated from having Aguirre and Henderson causing problems.

    As the Chargers have stated, every year this is delayed means the project will cost more to build. To assume a $600 million stadium, when we're at least 2-3 years away from breaking dirt is fantasyland thinking, IMO.

    Double the numbers, and then it will be closer to reality.
     
  17. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the $600 million is just the estimated cost of construction of the stadium. It doesn't include the cost of the land nor required surrounding infrastructure. Those could add $300 to $400 million to the overall cost of building a working stadium.
     
  18. Shamrock

    Shamrock Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to think about .....

    "$180 million in PSL sales" divided by 60,000 seats equals $3,000 per seat.

    Are there 60,000 fans that will pay $3,000 each? Or is it a tiered system, with the better seats costing $10,000 (or more) for their PSL's?

    The proposal says the Chargers will contribute $90 mill on top of the $180 million in PSL sales for Chargers tickets, meaning the "true" cost for the Spanos family is $270 million (or more) of the proposals estimate of $600 million. So, the Spanos are paying nearly half the cost to build a stadium they won't own? I don't see how that "pencils" from a business standpoint, unless a big chunk of the ancillary development goes into the Spanos' pocket (which is always the sticking point with San Diego political activists).
     
  19. sdbound

    sdbound Well-Known Member

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    club 36 and Pfft....they'll pay it.
     
  20. Alpenbolt

    Alpenbolt BoltTalker

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    Enclosed stadium in San Diego. Huh? WTF.

    I would actually rather have them move away than watch a game in a dome in San Diego. Ridiculous. It better be retractable.
     
  21. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    I think with the possible exception of Jacksonville's, all new stadiums built in the last decade have been retractable roofed ones.
     
  22. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    I dont know how I feel about an INDOOR stadium in San Diego in the first place.
    What the hell is the point of that?

    Well, atleast its a start.
     
  23. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Retractable roof stadiums in the NFL are the future. Nearly all new ones being built or in the design stages are such.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Did they say retractable? I must have missed that.
     
  25. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Qualcomm would be enclosed and turned into something like the Sports Arena or mini-convention center.

    A brand new stadium would be built, likely retractable roof, for the Chargers.
     
  26. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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    Retractable roof. In San Diego.

    :icon_rofl:
     
  27. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Exactly what I said.
    What a pointless waste of money that would be, espscially for a football stadium.
     
  28. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    Do you guys think we might have won the playoff game after the 04 season if it were indoors? Maybe Kaeding doesn't miss that kick if it isn't all rainy...
     
  29. sdbound

    sdbound Well-Known Member

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    A retractable roof takes the stadium from a 30 event/year facility to a 200+ event/year facility. Glendale had something like 80 events in the first 120 days. The financial benefit of hosting conventions is huge.
     
  30. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    In addition, all the criticism that was put on Marty for not kicking a FG on that 4th and 11 versus the Pats in January, should mostly be put on Kaeding.

    Marty asked Kaeding about kicking a 47 yard FG from the Pats' 30 yard line. Nate replied that he didn't think the kick would be able to go in, with the cold, foul weather that day, and the swirling winds in that part of the stadium. He was harkening back to the Baltimore game when a seemingly sure FG kick that would have split the uprights suddenly picked up wind and blew wide. Same in the Buffalo game.

    So, with an unsure kicker, Marty was faced with either punting from the 30 yard line, risking a touchback for a net 10 yard punt, or going for it on 4th-and-11.

    With a retractable-roof stadium that is closed when the weather gets windy and/or rainy, Nate tries that FG.
     

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