1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

I guess I'm not the only one who thinks Gates is washed up...

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Ikeman83, May 14, 2013.

  1. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...onio-gates-takes-issue-with-top-100-placement

    Antonio Gates takes issue with 'Top 100' placement


    Antonio Gates has a simple explanation why he was ranked just 73rd on NFL Network's "Top 100 Players of 2013" countdown. The people who decide such things don't know what they're talking about.
    "Apparently they don't watch football," the longtime San Diego Chargers tight end said Thursday on the "Top 100" aftershow. "I understand everybody's opinion. Some people are stats guy, some people are into who catches the touchdowns and passes, who has 100-something catches. A lot of people are not really interested in what the game plan is about."

    "It's funny to me because it's a joke in a sense, it's kind of funny."
    Also funny: The voters who decide the "Top 100" are fellow NFL players. So they watch football and play it.
    In truth, putting the 2013 version of Gates on this list at all seems awfully generous. As NFL.com's Dave Dameshek pointed out during the aftershow, Gates' inclusion feels less like a deserving honor and more like a lifetime achievement award.
    After all, we haven't seen Gates in peak form for years. The foot issues have robbed him of the explosion that made him the prototype for today's hyper-athletic tight ends.
    "It's always frustrating to see you getting placed so low," Gates said. "At the same time, it gives me a little chip on my shoulder to come back next year to prove I'm one of the better tight ends in this league."
    Gates still can play. His savvy at the position allows him to get open even if he doesn't possess the speed and quickness he once did. At the very least, his seven touchdown catches prove he remains a capable red-zone threat.
    But the days of Gates as a star are over.

    Kind of makes you wonder how big of a moron you'd have to be to put Rivers on an "overrated" list when the team has no receivers, a slow TE, no talent at RB, and a garbage o-line.
     
  2. Devo

    Devo BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    53
    Ratings:
    +17
    Does Gates have 10 years left in him?
    No, of course not.
    5 years? 3?
    I don't know, but I don't think I would go so far as to call him washed up.
    Even with his foot and toe issues, he is still a threat.
    And being No. 73 on the Top 100 means he's washed up?
    It means he is still considered one of the best 5 tight ends in the NFL.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    I think it's a bit of an overstatement to call Gates "washed up." Is he the player he was 5 years ago when he was playing like one of the best TEs in NFL history? Of course not. But there's alot that went into his declining numbers last year, beyond just a decline in Gates' play. The loss of WR talent obviously enabled teams to focus more on limiting Gates. Also, the deplorable pass protection was a big factor. TEs take longer to get up the field than WRs. If you expect a big play TE to make 25+ yard catches, you have got to protect the QB.

    As for Gates being "slow," he's always been accused of being fat and slow. His heft and gait have always made him look like he was not moving very fast, even in the years when he was uncoverable. But, clearly, looks can be deceiving.

    Gates is probably not ever going to average 15 ypc again, but very few TEs do. I still think he's got a few productive years left though. I fully expect a rebound in his production this season, not back to his ridiculous 2008 numbers, but better than last year.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Gates was an elite TE when we had nothing in the way of WRs (2004-2006) or an oline (2004,2005). He's done, and his 4.5 million in salary (his cap number is closer to 5.25) is detracting from the team. On a team trying to get younger, it's somewhat surprising how much money we have invested in a soon-to-be 33 year old TE with a bad wheel who's never been a particularly good blocker.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 8
  5. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    3,864
    Ratings:
    +1,721
    :poop: "Gates was an elite TE when we had nothing in the way of WRs?!?" :poop:

    Okay, I gotta admit...it was pretty hard to get beyond this opening turd:

    Gates' best season was, arguably, 2009...when the Chargers also had Vincent Jackson...
    the best WR the team has had in recent history...who was arguably having his best season in 2009...

    (why oh why did I test-drive a quick departure from "ignoring content by this member" ?) :tdown:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Improve your reading skills. I didn't say that he was last an elite TE when we had a dearth of WR talent, nor did I say that he was only an elite TE when we had a dearth of WR talent. I said that he was an elite TE when we had nothing in the way of WRs in the 2004-2006 time period. Since he was elite at that point, in the absence of WR talent on the roster, it stands to reason that now, if he is no longer elite, a dearth of WR talent is likely not the cause.

    Edit: Feel free to go back to ignoring my posts. It's nice not having to constantly explain elementary concepts to you or read your painfully formatted content.
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    14,840
    Ratings:
    +2,584
    Yeah this only serves to compliment him more. You're saying he was the only passing threat we had and he still produced. And all receivers are O-line dependent. QB isn't standing, WR doesn't get the ball, simple as that.

    I will agree he's probably on his last season, helped along by the fact that we still haven't totally fixed our O-line. The issue becomes how do you cut a man with a spotless reputation, potential HOF numbers, and who is best friends with your franchise player without having another Tomlinson incident.
     
  8. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Precisely. He had been an absolutely amazing player. He is currently no longer worth his cap hit.
     
  9. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    Yes, because being #74 in the NFL's Top 100 players means that people agree with you that he's washed up. That's a ridiculous statement. Even with his reduced numbers in 2012, Gates had the 6th most TDs for a TE. At 11.0 ypc he was in the top 10 for TEs with 45+ catches. His salary is nowhere near the top at his position.

    By rating him at #74, his fellow players still believe he is a top 10 player at his position. That does not equate to "washed up."
     
  10. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Did you read the article?
     
  11. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    No doubt 2009 was his best season. If not for the foot injury, in 2010 he probably would have had the best statistical season for a TE in NFL history. He was on pace to obliterate just about every record. In 2008, when the Bolts went 8-8, Gates had numbers on par with last year. Nobody was calling him washed up then.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Nomad

    Nomad Very Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    573
    Ratings:
    +124
    Did you understand it? :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    Yes, Dave Dameshek thinks Gates is not the player he once was (even he did not call him washed up). Sorry I was so wrong. Clearly, he must be washed up. What Damashek says must be true. I mean, if you can't trust the opinion of a sports radio personality turned fantasy football guru, who can you trust? Your opinion puts you in illustrious company. Telesco, McCoy, Rivers, the rest of the NFL fraternity...you can't trust their opinions over the opinion an NFL expert like Damashek . Thanks so much for setting me straight.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    Clearly not.
     
  15. Whooki Mane

    Whooki Mane BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    658
    Ratings:
    +174
    Antonio Gates is definitely not a top 5 tight end and hes not even a top 10 tight end anymore either... he should be happy he was ranked 73rd in the nfl by the players because that was on name alone
     
  16. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    T
    There's also the fact that in the short-term cutting Gates would be more damaging to the cap than keeping him around, especially if you can get him to agree to a restructured deal.
     
  17. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    His total prorated number was 4.575 Mil, signed in 2010 on a 6 year contract. His salary for this season is 4.5 mil. Do tell how that represents greater damage to the cap.
     
  18. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    A better synopsis would have been that Gates does not think that he deserves to be ranked as low as 74th, and the author, Dan Hanzus, thinks that he's lucky to be rated as highly as 74th, and that "putting him on this list at all seems awfully generous."
     
  19. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,527
    Ratings:
    +754
    Give me a TE who's worst season was 500 yards and 7 TD's which was still the same if not better than these young up and coming TE's

    Hernandez, Keller, Rudolph, Pitta, Cook

    And even in his worst year he's was still our most productive receiver, its kind of hard to break 1,000 yards when you're constantly being double and triple teamed because you're getting no other help on the outside. While your QB is seeing ghosts and slowly running for his life.

    Is he getting older and more broken down? yes!

    But Anyone who says he's washed up can take that and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    14,840
    Ratings:
    +2,584
    This year yes, next year we will save $2.63 mil should we choose to cut him.

    But I'm still willing to give him a shot in McCoy's system before calling it quits on the guy, he could have a couple Tony G years left.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Being the most productive receiver on a terrible team isn't really something to defend someone with, and he wasn't the most productive, either. (Take a look at DX). I don't recall a single triple team on Gates. I'd also really appreciate it if you could show me 10 plays from any single game where he was actually double teamed.

    Gates will likely have production equal to or worse than last season. He probably wouldn't be a starter on half of the teams in the league.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  22. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    Tony G never had plantar fasciitis.
     
  23. Moses

    Moses Yeah Buddy!

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    637
    Ratings:
    +250
    Not being funny, but the fact that he still made the top 100 list shows that you are the only one who thinks he's "washed up". His peers voted him higher than Aaron Hernandez, which while it may not be true in some people's views, it shows he is still regarded as an impact player by other players in the league.
     
  24. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,465
    Ratings:
    +629
    I seem to remember many wrathful Tomlinson threads floating around the internet after the 2009 season. Was LT still able to play in 2010/11? Sure, but he was just a shadow of himself, and a very average player. I won't be at all surprised if that's exactly what we see from Gates this season.
     
  25. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    14,840
    Ratings:
    +2,584
    Players like Julius Peppers, Marques Colston, Red Bryant, Jason Taylor and the dreaded Eli Manning all did. And some notable NBA players like Tyreke Evans, Tim Duncan, Dwayne Wade, LaMarcus Aldridge etc... have had and recovered from plantar fasciitis to continue their careers.

    Gates is now 3 years removed from it, and we didn't hear about it at all in 2012.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    The total remaining prorated money that counts against the cap if they cut him is 4.5 mil? So if they cut him it would count 4.5 mil against the cap next year? I thought it was more. If that's so, it would not result in a cap savings versus his salary, but you still have dead cap money versus paying for a player that's on the roster and contributing. If you cut him, you also have the added cost of signing another tight end to fill out your roster.
     
  27. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    RBs typically have the steepest dropoff in production of any position in football. TEs typically have more longevity. Gates' injury history might steepen his decline, but I still think he as a couple productive years left. As I said, I expect his numbers this year to be slightly better than last year. Clearly, if he's "washed up" that won't be the case. We shall see.
     
  28. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    6,737
    Ratings:
    +1,357
    Please list the 16 teams Gates would not be the starter for.
     
  29. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    6,614
    Ratings:
    +1,351
    And you equate him being ranked 73rd on a stupid top 100 list to being "washed up"? :roflmao:

    You really do put the A$$ in assessment. Get back to crowing how it's better to lose games to get a better draft pick because you clearly know nothing about the TE position. Or any other position on an NFL team.

    Washed up? :roflmao:
     
  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,415
    Ratings:
    +3,380
    A little levity in the morning isn't a bad thing. ;)
     

Share This Page