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Initial contact to the head of a defenseless receiver

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok as we saw, the NFL has made a new rule to protect the players. yesterday, Antonio Cormartie almost got a flag for what I saw as a misinterpretation of the new rule.

    The rule states: "Initial contact to the head of a defenseless receiver will draw a 15-yard penalty."

    "We're trying to make the game safer for the guy getting hit and the guy doing the hitting," NFL director of officiating Mike Pereira said. "Our clear movement is to getting out of the striking in the head area," Pereira continues. "We're reading about injuries that say spinal and vertebrae. We've got to try something."

    Now get this, I actually like this rule. Too many times you see a receiver in the air catching the ball, then taking a helmet to the chin while coming down. However I believe it should already be covered under unnecessary roughness.

    Now I know it is en-vogue to bag on Cromartie right now, some red chested fans have been drumming their pects for a while now talking about how he wont do this, and cant do that. It was no change yesterday as some people talked about he finally tackles but cant even do that right. I wonder if they ate some CRO when the flag was picked up and they were shown to be wrong.

    So far he is proving a lot of doubters wrong. The hit yesterday was legal. The receiver was not blindsided, nor was he helpless. He was in the middle of a football move. It was a legal hit, contact was made by his shoulder pads before helmet or forearm.

    Now this rule is an interpretation rule for the refs. What does that mean? One referee is going to call it different than the next might call it. The bottom line is we will see hits like those that left Anquan Bolden with a broken jaw penalized. That is a good thing.

    Cromartie's hit yesterday... Another good thing.

    So let stop hating!
    Start appreciating!
    Then we can be participating!
     
  2. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Yeah, & I especially liked the little atta-boy pat on the *** he gave the WR on AZ's first TD. The guy puts a spin move on Cason & Cro watches him walk in while trying to reach for the ball.

    As for the big hit - did he wrap up at all? No - he did his usual shoulder hit without wrapping up.

    Face it Conc - Cro has mad ball skills. Unbelievable. But he doesn't want to hit anyone. How long do you think that is gonna fly with Rivera?

    I want the guy to succeed, I really do. In order to do that long term, he's going to have to change his attitude towards sticking his nose in. I'm not going to support a Deion Sanders on this team.
     
  3. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Correction... He is going to have to change YOUR PERCEPTION.

    That is what I am pointing out. You have illustrated it quite well for me, Fans say he wont hit or tackle. He hits, and the fans then say well he didnt wrap up.

    Funny, Palamalou (SP?) often does not wrap up. Ed Reed, when the big hit is delivered there is no wrap up... So we expect our CBs to play differently?

    Now to a point I agree with you, we need to wrap up. But lets walk through the play. Could Cromartie, from his position during the play wrap up? I give you the floor.
     
  4. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Absolutely he could have. You open your arms & lead with a shoulder while wrapping your arms around the opponent. He had room enough to deliver a forearm - he had room enough to tackle instead of trying to jar the ball out. It happened to work on this play, but you know as well as I do that there have been plenty of plays where the ball carrier bounced off & kept going.

    He doesn't WANT to hit, Conc. It isn't just my perception - the camera does not lie. His main concern is to get the ball in his hands, not to tackle. Takeaways are great & I hope he gets them in bunches this year - just not at the expense of blowing tackles & giving up big plays.

    As for Polamalu & Ed Reed - when Cro reaches the level of consistent play that those guys have proven year in & year out, then I'll eat my words. He isn't close yet.
     
  5. pure-sol

    pure-sol Well-Known Member

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    This
     
  6. BeerGuy

    BeerGuy BoltTalker

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    Any time there's room for "interpretation" you're going to end up pissing half the fans off......
     
  7. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ok so let me step through this one at a time.. 'Cause wow...

    Absolutely he could have. You open your arms & lead with a shoulder while wrapping your arms around the opponent.


    I will bite, how much room did he have?

    He had room enough to deliver a forearm - he had room enough to tackle instead of trying to jar the ball out.

    Deliver a forearm? Are you serious? DELIVER A FOREARM? You need to watch the replay, there was not 'delivery of a forearm'. Watch the replay and pay attention. His arm came up, I don't think it even made contact with Norwood. In fact Norwoods injury was to his knee, not head, not neck... Deliver a forearm... Paaahlease!

    He doesn't WANT to hit, Conc.

    Ii is good he doesnt want to hit Conc, I like Conc. But this whole topic is about CROMARTIE HITTING! So is it that you don't think he wraps up, or does not hit. You are not being clear.

    His main concern is to get the ball in his hands, not to tackle.

    Again, I think this is an Eldwin-esque perception that is lacking in any fact. Please show me where this has been an issue. Has he been out of position? Yes, but if he is in position he hits the receiver. WATCH THE GAME, dont just read the hype.

    As for Polamalu & Ed Reed - when Cro reaches the level of consistent play that those guys have proven year in & year out, then I'll eat my words. He isn't close yet.

    I will put the crow in the microwave for you.
     
  8. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Thanks for the enlightenment, Obi-Wan. :icon_tease:

    I watched & re-watched the hit. He could have wrapped up. It worked out this time - it hasn't always.

    On the 1st AZ TD, he was clearly swiping at the ball instead of trying to make the tackle. Last week on Hart's interception, instead of diving in to cover the ball, he reached in to try & pick it up.

    Watch the way Jammer plays CB & then look at the way Cro plays it. QJ may have hooks for hands, but when he hits an opponent they usually go down. The same cannot be said at this point in time about Cro.

    If & when the time comes, I'd like oyster stuffing with that crow, please. :icon_twisted:
     
  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Jammer did not play like the Jammer you are talking about for what? The first four years here? You are judging Cromartie based on a year and a half of play, with one year of him playing injured.

    I hope he continues to go for the ball! If we get the ball, the offense doesn't get another chance. Everyone gets beaten from time to time, no matter if your name is Jammer, Reed, or what have you.
     
  10. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Jammer sucked for a few years, no doubt. But he never, ever shied away from contact.

    Have I said to cut Cro? No - what I've said is that he tackles like Deion & that if he keeps it up, Cason is going to take his job. I've also said that I hope he succeeds - that means that we're a better team for it. My belief is that, until he starts to realize that tackling is just as important as ball theft, he's going to be suspect.

    And yes - at this point in time, he tackles like a *****. Just like his mentor Deion.
     
  11. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    My point is you are, in my opinion, buying into the hype. I have seen Cro hit, I have seen him tackle. Maybe I dont like dealing in absolutes...
     
  12. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Well I am off... Enjoyed sparring with you. I hope Cro will make all the doubters eat Crow this season...
     
  13. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I'd like nothing better. :icon_toast:
     
  14. pure-sol

    pure-sol Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's so much absolutes as it is tendencies. When a player shows that he hits once out of say, 20 opportunities, it's pretty safe to assume he's not going to hit again for a while.

    The problem is, that boneheaded play he made when Hart fumbled the ball in AZ wasn't a fluke, or even out of character for him. He seems to shy away from contact and go for the big plays. This is fairly obvious to many many fans, and not just on this board. You're taking one example of him hitting a guy and using that as the entire basis of your argument. Meanwhile, others are citing his tendencies over his 1.5 years of starting as their basis. Which one is more accurate?

    I'm not saying cut him. Yet. Just that he's on a very short leash. I'd rather have another Jammer, or even someone on Asomugha's caliber (duh).

    I know Buck brought up Reid and Polamalu, but since Cro is a corner, let's compare him to a corner. Asomugha is considered by many, if not all, to be the best CB playing at the current time. Guess how many interceptions he had last year? One. Hell, this is his 7th year playing and he's had as may interceptions as Cro did in 2007. Yet he's a better corner.

    Corners need to A)be in the correct position to break up a pass, and B)make a solid tackle if they don't break it up. Interceptions are great, but they're something that is just gravy if it happens.

    I have a very strong feeling that Cro just wants to be in the highlights, not to be known as a strong/shutdown cornerback. Picks make highlights. Jammer and Asomugha aren't in the highlights hardly ever, yet they're known as some of the best playing CBs in the league.
     
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  15. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    It looked to me that Cro absorbed the hit rather than deliver it. It appeared he prepared himself for the blow as the receiver lost control of his momentum.

    Cro's tackling has been beter so far this year, I hope he continues to improve.
     
  16. Enormo

    Enormo BoltTalker

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    I think Cro should pay closer attention to his tackling technique. He regularly leads with his shoulder, head down.
     

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