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Is it mental?

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Concudan, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Last night after the game Steve Young alluded to the fact that the players don't know where they will be playing next season, they dont know who will be coaching and that is impacting their performance.

    Do you buy it?

    If so, then I am not sure what to think, these guys are paid better than most to do their jobs.

    Or is the rash of injuries, and probable lack of conditioning more a factor in 2015, the season that the fans want to forget?
     
  2. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I don't. Raiders and Rams are going through the same thing and look at how they come out to play each week. I think the string of close losses and the inability to close out games have our players checking out. They expect to lose each game with this coaching staff. Injuries suck of course. Though I feel some are dogging it and not willing to play through the minor stuff.

    So I blame the training staff for not doing a better job over the last few seasons keeping players on the field and I especially blame this idiot coaching staff for not being able to put a solid game plan together and make in game adjustments. Teams losing a lead in the 4th quarter every time is on the coaches.
     
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  3. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    From the very outset, it was the coaching which set mediocrity in motion. It started by NOT utilizing the most thoughtfully beneficial schemes to fit the available roster talent. Once the discouragement of repeated defeats set in as opposed to the initial exuberance (whether rational or irrational) of a new season, the players started to spiral down the drain both physically and mentally. Let's not forget that the losing pattern with this coaching staff had started in Dec 2014.

    As winning is proven to be very contagious, so is losing in its opposing direction. Success is great but it can make anything and anyone into becoming lazy. Failure can be a great teacher and a great motivator if placed in the hands of a great master. This ownership, FO and coaching staff does not know how to become a fist in the face of adversity. It has become a soft open palm to be smacked week in, week out. These players are mostly very young men with very little life experiences in real life. When there is very little mentorship and leadership, what sets in is the mentality of defeat and destruction!
     
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  4. gonzokrb

    gonzokrb Well-Known Member

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    100% on the mark! Remember the year before Boss Ross. The same team (for the most part) and we go to the Super Bowl. Plain and simple, it was coaching. We are so soft it's embarrassing! With the exception of T.T. I say get rid of the entire staff. Bring in a bad *** Head Coach and a competent staff who can take these soft young boys and make hard assess out of them! Start off with a little Marine boot camp!
     
  5. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I can see and in general agree. But I also ask how much of this is knee jerk reactions to having little information and the frustration of losses.

    I mean McCoy built his reputation on customizing things for his QBs, changing systems and using what works. So what happened? Did he get tired of the work? Give up? Forget how to do it?

    I get everyone says that injuries are an excuse, but how many games has the OL and secondary played the same group together? I see a ton of what I see and miscommunication and sand lot playing. That in large is because there is no consistency built up.

    So how does that impact things. I just cant lay everything at the feet of the coaches. There are players mailing it in *cough* BUTLER *cough*...

    There are huge problems that are scheme, largely the lack of special teams. Defense and Offense I think are more related to consistency. So how does the coaches get consistency when the players are dropping like bee's pollinating a Monsanto crop field?
     
  6. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    Someone needs to get this man a motivational platform right now ...............

    Bravo Sheiky, Bravo ! [​IMG]
     
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  7. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    In the latter and last years with Norv Turner as HC, the production and the efficiency of Philip Rivers was on an accelerated and very worrying decline. McCoy sold himself to the FO (reportedly) on the promise that HE could fix Rivers, which he did with the aid of Ken Whisenhunt as the OC and Reich as the QBC. As much as Whisenhunt frustrated us at times, we saw the effects of his disappearing act once he was pretty much penciled in as a HC prospect and the demise of Ryan Mathews in the POs. I would say that the promotion of Frank Reich to OC was a terrible move by this HC who is responsible for his coaching placement decisions.

    Now as the HC, one assumes (hopefully) that he contributes to the player signing, re-signing and drafting decisions; because after all, TT had said himself that he has "an open door policy" as opposed to the dictatorial style of the previous GM. The most pressing issue which I have noticed with McCoy is that he is too darn conservative in every aspect of his "skills set". During the pre season, we hardly saw the 1st unit OL on the field for more than a mere few series when every team plays their most basic vanilla scheme. Although players dropping like flies is not primarily his fault, preserving players from the outset within the rules of the league's bargaining agreement seems to be a big flaw in his philosophy and preparation strategy.

    Let me give you an example with regards to his often stated, "we had an excellent week of practice" verbiage:

    A few years ago (about 5) I was heavily into "cardio" boxing and kickboxing. I became so avidly interested and involved that I would watch a lot of film on YouTube and I'd sometimes hit the gym twice a day and participate in every bootcamp. For a 46 YO back then, I was in the greatest shape of my life and I had almost a 6 pack which I had not seen since I was in my early 20s! I used to punch and kick those heavybags like my life depended on it and those 200+ lb. bags felt like were tearing out of their spots drilled into the metal frames! One day low and behold, I decided to spar with a skinny young MoFo who was probably 20 lb. lighter than me, but was an amateur boxer. It was only then when I found out that all my training, studying and endeavors were for sh*t as I was knocked on my arse within probably 30 seconds despite having better attire, gloves and protective headgear! Needless to say, I was devastated, very discouraged and then picked up yoga :laugh:

    Moral of the story: practice all you want but if you are not in game condition, you will LOSE!
     
  8. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Did he really though? I mean, it was his scheme that Kyle Orton was putting up the kind of levels of suckitude that led to him being bench for Tebow... TEBOW. And speaking of Tebow, when he did get playing time under McCoy that was an extremely simplified playbook - never more than 2 reads being asked of him, plays designed to put short passes in the hands of playmakers for YAC (which if you look at what McDaniels is calling regularly in New England now, you have to question whether that wasn't a package already in place for Tebow), and a little read-option.

    McCoy didn't really "adapt" to Peyton's scheme and playcalling, he got steamrolled, but got credit for it. With as much constant media hoopla as was made Peyton's first year in Denver, we all were made aware of how much McCoy's responsibilities were: Give Peyton 3 play suggestions and let him pick (or 5-6 play suggestions for a series and let him pick which ones and in what order).
     
  9. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Pretty much my exact concerns when we hired him.
    https://bolttalk.com/threads/official-2013-coach-hirings-thread.27649/page-15#post-766129
     
  10. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Amazing how there haven't been/or won't be changes coming to this coaching staff..
     
  11. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Don't brace yourself for any either.
     
  12. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    So pissed...:mad:
     
  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Today would of been the day to do so. I don't expect anything to be done now.

    Stat of the day - Chargers have 1 playoff win in the last 7 years with Philip Rivers as their QB. Crazy. Glad we have the right guys running this organization.
     
  14. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    If it wasn't mental from the beginning it's got to be by now. Just how much pounding do they think the players and the fans can take, especially with the threatened move out of Dodge?.
     
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  15. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Not really. Remember back when feckless Norv was here. Dean said how he didn't believe in lame duck interim coaches. Pagano was the only staffer, that I recall, who had any life left on his contract after that season, but Pagano was also a first-year DC with no prior playcalling experience - so asking him to take up HC duties was putting a lot on his plate anyway. It sort of made sense then.

    Now, Pagano's contract is up after this season (he signed a 2 year extension in January 2014). Dean's not going to let Nolan jump Pagano, even if he is more qualified, because Pagano's longer-tenured with the organization. There's no one on the offensive side of the staff that's qualified - or doesn't already have a crap ton on their plate given what slews of injuries have handed us. Fred Graves has prior play-calling experience at Utah - but our WR's are a walking MASH unit right now and he's got his hands full trying to get the likes of Herndon and, likely now, Tyrell Williams prepared to see meaningful snaps (not to mention throwing bricks at Inman to get him to quit dropping balls in critical situations).
     
  16. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

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    So the second half starts.......and there's Ronnie Brown...Donald Brown.....I don't f#cken know which Brown it is......who cares......all I know is..... he's one of those F'n roaches that can't be killed obviously......
    WHERE THE F#CK WAS MELVIN AND WHY WASN'T HE IN THERE???
    This coaching is TOTALLY inept.....a national disaster. :poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop:
     
  17. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

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    ^^^ Do we have a Melvin Brown too?
     
  18. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Let's see, we have had a moratorium on drafting anyone first named Sammy or nick named Buster. Now we have to add both Melvin and Donald to those names, but when it starts extendeing to last names, it's going to get very precarious and very dicey ;)
     
  19. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    100% wrong.

    This team has lacked talent ever since Telesco botched the roster in 2013 with terrible moves. McCoy and company brilliantly went to a short pass/running ball control scheme to make up for the fact that the OL sucked and the defense was dog manure against the pass and run. They knew the defense could not stop anything, so they used offensive ball control as a defense to shorten the game.

    McCoy should have been a serious contender for NFL Coach of the Year for somehow getting that crappy roster to a 9-7 record. That was truly amazing.

    Last year, the talent level did improve some. Unfortunately, so did the toughness of the schedule with us having to play the NFC West and AFC East. Between that and Andy Reid recognizing how to beat us, we couldn't quite make the playoffs despite good coaching.

    You have referenced the late season swoon from last year on more than one occasion. Frankly, it was a miracle that we won even two of our last 5 games since we played opponents that should have beaten us in all 5 weeks.

    In case some of you have forgotten, those games were: @BAL (playoff team), NE (SB champion), DEN (playoff team), @SF (8-8), and at KC (9-7). We should have been underdogs in every one of those games when where the game was played is factored into the equation.

    Then, Telesco had a horrible offseason this year. Gone are key contributors: Royal, Gachkar, Ajirotutu, Mathews, Gilchrist and Wright. Every one of those players gave us a particular contribution that we otherwise lacked on this team. Telesco ignored how the missing players fit on the team in deciding which players to get to replace the missing players and shortcomings that were covered by the missing players have shown up all season long.

    We have no quick breakaway threat in the slot at WR because we got a serviceable, but slow Johnson to replace the quick/speedy Royal. There is nothing wrong with Johnson as a player, but as a group our WRs were already slow. We didn't need to get slower.

    At SS, Wilson sucks at everything and is not even properly NFL rosterable. But what we are missing is the pass coverage that Gilchrist offered out of the SS position.

    Similarly, at CB, Wright gave us a more physical presence, especially in defense, that we are missing. It isn't that Wright is all that great of a CB, just that he gave us something that we otherwise completely lack--run stopping toughness out of the CB position.

    Ajirotutu and Gachkar's ST excellence are missed on arguably the worst combined coverage units in the NFL.

    Gachkar's pass coverage ability is missed at ILB because it was not replaced.

    I will spare the discussion about the obvious mistake of not re-signing Mathews and then trading half a year's draft to move up to two spots to reach for a rookie that has struggled mightily when the picks lost could have been used elsewhere to better the team.

    Because of these and other colossal roster clusterf*cks by Telesco, the 2015 roster is nowhere close to being as good as the 2014 roster was. The coaching has been okay, not great, but okay. But it hasn't been good enough to turn Telesco's chickensh!t into chicken salad.

    Even worse, had Telesco done even a half way good job at establishing a useful strategy to better the roster from the start in terms of recognizing what needed to be replaced and what did not, and what a draft is and how to manage one, this team could have been a serious Super Bowl contender right now.

    In short, you need to wake up and smell the BS you are spewing.
     
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  20. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    We are soft because we have elected to use a "Colts style" approach to building a roster. What else would one expect when we hired from the staff of a club whose a$$ we routinely beat?!

    After having played most of their lives, players are what they are by nature, not by coaching. If Rex Ryan couldn't "man up" Cropussy (and he couldn't), nobody can. It is not some sort of player choice thing.

    The "Marine" analogy is a particularly bad one. There, recruits usually have no experience with the physical training and discipline involved in being a U.S. Marine, so toughening/hardening can take place. That is the polar opposite of the experience of most NFL football players.

    For example, Te'o isn't soft because he chooses to be. He is soft because he lacks the physicality to be anything else. And whatever else can be said about their respective games, there is a night and day difference between Te'o's lack of physicality and Perryman's much more physical play.

    I have to believe that any defensive player would love to have the reputation as being a "physical" player. Yet, some are known as finesse type players. It isn't a choice thing. The players are what their abilities allow them to be.

    And with the Chargers, that is what happens when the GM chooses small and quick over big, fast and physical time and time again.

    Telesco is the only one that absolutely has to go. When we get rid of 50-75% of this roster and replace it with players that are the right kind of player, the team will win with any coach like the team did with the worst of all coaches, Norv Turner.

    It is absolutely stunning to me how so many on this forum can miss the most obvious of all things when it comes to this roster. Your blame is totally misplaced.
     
  21. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    In short, bugger off!
     
  22. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Young's comments are ridiculous.

    I can't believe that someone that actually has ever played on a professional sports team would say such things.

    Any relocation would not be during this season. Why would something that would not even happen this year affect the play of a player this year? That makes no sense.

    Equally bizarre is the comment about concern over who will be coaching the team next year. Potential relocation is a non-issue as to the coaching. Just like in any year, if a team sucks, the coach will be scrutinized.

    The team simply is not very good in terms of talent. Teams that are not very good in terms of talent tend to struggle and tend to struggle comparatively more when their lack of talent is further exposed with the injuries that all teams have. That is what is happening to the 2015 Chargers.

    The problem is physical in terms of lack of talent, not mental.
     
  23. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    Here's some food for thought for the know-it-all Bolt Talk savant from Texas:

    http://www.chargers.com/team/staff/roster/john-spanos

    Some snippets:

    "Drawing from his scouting experience, Spanos has seen his role in the NFL Draft grow exponentially since his ascension in 2013 and the results have been overwhelmingly positive. The team’s 2013 draft yielded three key starters: tackle D.J. Fluker, linebacker Manti Te’o, and wide receiver and Pepsi Next NFL Rookie of the Year Keenan Allen. The 2014 draft class saw four of the six players the Chargers selected make the team’s opening day roster, and the 2015 class is full of promising talent, headlined by running back Melvin Gordon, winner of the 2014 Doak Walker Award as the nation’s top running back, and runner up for the 2014 Heisman Trophy.

    The 2015 season will mark Spanos’ 20th year in the NFL and his 17th with the team.
    "

    "Staying true to his scouting roots, Spanos serves on the board of directors for National Football Scouting. Locally, he serves on the Athletics Board at the University of California-San Diego (UCSD).

    In June 2010, Spanos was named one of the “Top 40 Under 40” Greek-Americans by Greek America Magazine. The acknowledgment came in recognition of his achievements in both business and community leadership."

    For the lurve of gawd man, keep your responses limited to 2-3 paragraphs!
     
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  24. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    No matter how many times or ways you say it, it doesn't make it any more true. It's a shame you're so far off base, and that it's causing you all this misery. However we are already well aware of your long winded views, so if you'd like to keep the loud weeping to a minimum that'd be much appreciated.

    Best wishes, matilack.:coffee:
     
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  25. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    With the none stop dogmatic ferocity that he has been going after TT and the players selected during his tenure, I deduct that Crusher is actually Jimmy Raye's alter ego :D
     
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  26. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Fire Frank Reich and half our mental problems will be solved.
     
  27. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I read this fluff bio/article even before I first made my comments. [Paragraph 1.]

    Nice read, but it does not support your apparent position that somehow John Spanos has substituted his judgment for Telesco's and has become de facto GM. Is this (i.e., nothing) really all you have? [Paragraph 2.]

    Naturally, your having having taken this position is a tacit admission that the team's talent is lacking in that there would be no need to blame anyone for how bad the team's roster is unless it were, you know, actually bad. [Paragraph 3.]
     
  28. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Congratulations on your graduation from the Tom Telesco Institute of Blind Ignorance in Football Matters.

    Your diploma is a life-size Donald Brown blow up doll tattooed with the official Tom Telesco motto--"Yay Colts!". Yippee for you! Enjoy!
     
  29. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

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    The season is now in a tailspin mode and whether there was actual top grade talent or not (I don't subscribe to your not so subtle notion that TT happens to draft and sign the crappiest players possible) this coaching staff will be hard pressed to muster anything significant out of the players who are healthy enough at its disposal.

    We are not going to agree on my suggestion, but I am for keeping TT and lil Johnny at the expense of McCoy and his crew. I wish for the FO to sign a HC with prior HC'ing experience. Naturally I would prefer a blue chip type of HC, but I will also be happy with someone who is both courageous and a disciplinarian, someone who didn't get a very fair shake at his last tenure. There are a few of this ilk.

    However, I have a bad feeling that they will keep the nucleus of this current coaching staff with the exception of Pagano and that Spanoses will give us another year of agony before they completely clean house whilst LA bound for 2017.
     
  30. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    If John Spanos has a much say as Tom Telesco in the draft room, why is Telesco the scapegoat here? We don't know which players exactly, but its clear Spanos has as much power as Telesco does.

    I hope everyone enjoys Telesco being the GM of this team, it's been clear for a while now, John Spanos is being groomed to become the next GM. Especially if Dean gets his move, its not a coincidence Telesco's deal runs out at the end of the 2016 season heading into 2017.
     

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