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Is the 3-4 defense outdated?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by Andres M188, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Andres M188

    Andres M188 BoltTalker

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    I feel like this thought always crosses my mind when I think if the Chargers and the lack of a NT & solid linebackers. Another thing, why is the 3-4 a "base" defense? With things the way they are right now wouldnt a nickel formation be considered our "base" defense? Also, wouldnt a nickel formation be more effective with 4 linemen ready to bull over the offense?
     
  2. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Wade Phillips won a Super Bowl yesterday.;)
     
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  3. TheAutumnWind

    TheAutumnWind BoltTalker

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    The same Wade Philips and his 3-4 Defense that took a 30th ranked Texan D to 2nd. Bringing in guys like JJ Watt.
     
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  4. MadMike

    MadMike Well-Known Member

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    Yes, problem is our personnel is lacking to run a solid 3-4. Without a true NT, a 3-4 falls apart.
     
  5. TheAutumnWind

    TheAutumnWind BoltTalker

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    NT is a big hole right now. But do you think any NT is worth a #3 pick for this year's draft? Robinson??
    They're so high, might as well wait for an NT in the 2nd.
     
  6. scratchnz

    scratchnz BoltTalker

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    3-4 gives you the ability to be more creative with your blitzing. With more Linebackers you can move them all over the place to confuse the Offence. Its just that Pagano is not a creative defensive mind and can't dial it up like better coordinators like Wade Phillips or Dom Capers can.

    The Chargers lackluster play is more to do with the defensive playbook than it is the player personel IMO.

    In saying that we could use a better NT and DE opposite Cory Liuget.
     
  7. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    I don't think the 3-4 looked "outdated" on the Broncos this season.


    The fact that it looked far better on the Chargers back in the '04- to '08 era

    is about having or not having a Jamal Williams...not the scheme aging badly...
     
  8. scratchnz

    scratchnz BoltTalker

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    Big Jamal was a major piece of that 3-4 jigsaw but also the fact that Wades 3-4, which has largely remained today has been watered down and ****** around with by all the coordinators since him!
     
  9. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    No where close to outdated.

    Now understaffed from the start, that's a real problem for the 3-4.
     
  10. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    Denver doesn't have a Jamal either. They have Malik Jackson and some other good depth player and neither is a Jamal either.

    So how can their success mean a NT is a necessity to a successful 3-4 defense.

    I don't understand why this is being reiterated over and over again by Charger fans. I use to believe a NT was requirement for a successful defense(as in a Top 5 defense), but now I think it's an excuse for our poor play elsewhere on defense.

    Can having a Jamal Williams type of NT help improve? Absolutely but there are more pieces to the puzzle. Like having a Safety that doesn't let the tight end beat them consistently.
     
  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Actually, I didn't say "their success mean a NT is a necessity to a successful 3-4 defense"...
    I said that "I don't think the 3-4 looked "outdated" on the Broncos this season" and that's true. Duh.

    Yes, longtime NFL fans know how crucial a good NT is to a 3-4. I'm not sure why you mentioned Jackson,
    Denver's current NT is Sylvester Williams, who they spent a first round pick to get. He's only 3 years in,
    and a little undersized, but he is becoming a solid 3-4 anchor.

    http://www.todayspigskin.com/afc-to...iams-is-anchoring-denvers-super-bowl-defense/

    Also, (of course) no one said that their aren't "more pieces to the puzzle," but if a team hasn't got a
    solid NT who can consistently eat up 2 linemen, there isn't much point in forcing inappropriate
    personnel into a 3-4.
     
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  12. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

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    I see now. I misunderstood what you said and I've seen Jackson line up inside so he is NT on some occasion.

    Luckily for us the 2nd round is loaded with NT thus year. I'd prefer if we went with a day 1 impact rookie rather than someone to develop with our 3rd pick.
     
  13. Bleeding Lightning Bolts

    Bleeding Lightning Bolts BoltTalker

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    yes we run a 3-4 but our D-line is not asked to control 2 gaps. Plus out NT plays 1-tech (not 0-tech and not controlling both A gaps) and is asked to shoot the gap more like a 4-3 NT.
     
  14. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I think the term "base defense" refers to the team's primary defensive alignment, which is generally the alignment the team is in absent changes being dictated either by the game situation or the opposing player personnel packages.

    The issues that we have have mostly to do with the tam's lack of player talent at at least 3 of the front 7 positions. We do not have either a starting 3-4 DE opposite Liuget or a starting caliber NT. We also do not have a starting caliber ILB to pair with Perryman.

    The remaining 4 starters (Attaochu, Ingram, Liuget and Perryman) are all part of the solution. However, while all 4 players are good, none of them is great. In addition, there is a gigantic drop off in ability after the starters at OLB.

    Comparing to the 2006 front 7 to illustrate the point about lac of talent reveals the following:

    2016 Liuget over 2006 Castillo (very slight advantage)
    2006 Williams over 2016 Carrethers (huge advantage)
    2006 Olshansky over 2006 Reyes (solid advantage)
    2006 Merriman over 2006 Ingram (solid/huge advantage)
    2006 Edwards over 2006 Te'o (huge advantage)
    2016 Perryman over 2006 Godfrey (very slight advantage)
    2006 Phillips over 2016 Attaochu (solid advantage)

    This points to the lack of overall talent on the current team's starting front 7. Where the current team has any advantage at all over the 2006 team, the advantage is very slight. The 2006 team's advantages are much larger and at more of the positions.

    In my view, this has happened because our current GM has blown three straight offseasons and is getting ready to blow a 4th. The nearly constant poor choices in terms of letting good players leave, signing/re-signing lesser players, flushing draft picks down the toilet like they didn't matter at all and making draft pick errors (especially when the alternatives then available are considered) has drained this team of talent to the point that it is a bottom 5 team in talent even with a HOF in waiting QB.

    If we start selecting the right players for the 3-4 defense, we should be to run it effectively, but it remains difficult for us to be effective at running the 3-4 when the GM botches opportunity after opportunity to secure good 3-4 players.
     

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