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Jackson, McNeill receive letters

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Johnny Lightning, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    This. I'm a victim
     
  2. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Not everyone who tries to have a discussion & supports a different viewpoint is a troll.

    He's a bit condescending but I don't see the troll part. Well, unless you consider a large portion of the sports media community who like to dump on AJ trolls. :icon_shrug:

    I just consider them uninformed hacks trying to sell print.
     
  3. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Some people automatically assume that just because someone refuses to quit arguing his negative viewpoint that he must be trolling.

    It doesn't help that some trolls do like to use that tactic and argue a negative stance that they don't really hold because it's apparently rewarding to get people to respond to you on a message board when all you have to do is respond to them.

    edit: This is just a response on the general concept, though. I haven't read through this thread so I couldn't say whether or not this guy specifically is trolling.
     
  4. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that dood a Redskin fan anyways?


    probably explains a lot.


    :flag:
     
  5. markrc99

    markrc99 BoltTalker

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    Masterofpuppets:

    You're right, thinking that Goodell would step up is little more than wishful thinking. Yet, the interests of one team can sometimes conflict with that of another. Here, Jackson wants to play and there are teams that want him! I'm just saying, seems that Goodell could offer to do something.
     
  6. in_a_days

    in_a_days dgaf

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    Okay... I didn't get wasted enough to address this last night sorry. This is all speculation of course... but maybe AJ is not totally convinced we're a championship team without VJ. I understand very little about the CBA details, but is there a chance we're still going to have his rights after this season? Either way, I think AJ wants to see this team on the field, with its currently active WRs, before making the permanent decision that we don't need VJ. If we're stacked at wide out maybe we move him before the trade deadline. If our receivers stink it up maybe there's new urgency to get him a contract.

    Again, just speculating.
     
  7. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Have you ever stopped to consider that caving in to one player means you have to cave in or at least deal with more players? Did you ever stop to think that in a business you don’t just throw around green backs like candy?

    It may suck for the fans at times but the NFL is a business. You can rail against AJ all you want. I can promise you that all the people agreeing with you because they think we cant possibly win without VJ or Big Mac will as soon turn around and bash the organization if they start 'caving' into every players demand for more money. Then you get a few players with big contracts and a lot of little players of lesser skills you can afford. It brings the whole team down. Look around, the NFL is rife with examples of this very thing!

    It sucks that the CBA has caused a problem for VJ and Big Mac. But it has. They need to deal with it or sit out. That is not AJ's doing, that is not the Chargers doing. That is the NFL's and the PLAYERS UNION’s (Something both belong to) doing.

    So may I suggest you stop and think logically, not do a Chicken Little dance and worry about the sky falling because two players would rather sit out than demonstrate they deserve a long term contract by anything beyond words...

    For Goodell stepping in and make something happen for VJ would violate the rules of the league, there is a name for that. That name is TAMPERING. VJ needs to either get into camp, or sit out the year. It is his choice. IMO he damages his reputation and marketability the longer he sits out.

    He by his actions has already lost three games, so to ask everyone to take pity on this young pup millionaire doesn’t do a lot for me. If he wants to demonstrate he is rehabilitated, and focused on helping the Chargers win, he needs to get his arse into camp. Otherwise, I cant give a rats arse about him, I will instead choose to focus on the players who are on the field, as AJ and the Chargers rightfully have done.

    Respectfully,
    A dissenting opinion.

    I noticed your avatar has Natrone Means... Didnt he hold out and effectivly shorten his career?
     
  8. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Great point. And he didnt do squat after he left the Chargers either!
     
  9. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    Ever wondered whether either of these guys has stopped to think about just how good their great QB has made them look?


    I'd like to see either of them perform up to top 5 position status on a team with a rookie QB... or worse... Jay Cutler. :lol:
     
  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Imagine how a revitalized running game coupled with Rivers will make them look! :abq2:
     
  11. nickelbolt

    nickelbolt Fuggedaboutit

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    Exactly.

    I've said it before... this team will average over 25pts per game this season without those two lunks.

    The defense will determine whether or not the Chargers go to the Superbowl.

    Same as last year.
     
  12. BoltzRule

    BoltzRule Well-Known Member

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    There is 0% chance that Goodell gets involved, why would any team allow it? If he gets involved here what's stopping him from getting involved with the Patriots (who have Mankins holding out). **** I'm not even sure he has the power to do anything about it, nor should he.
     
  13. wrbanwal

    wrbanwal Well-Known Member

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    :tup:
     
  14. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Absolutely. Getting Goodell involved in a matter like this, which involves no manipulation or breaking of rules, would be one of the most ignorant things that a league president of ANY sport could attempt.

    Talk about opening a floodgate .... :unsure:
     
  15. markrc99

    markrc99 BoltTalker

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    in_a_days:

    "... maybe AJ is not totally convinced we're a championship team without VJ."

    I can understand that sentiment, Jackson possesses a rare combination of size and speed. Further, Smith has flatly rejected any consideration of a trade. However, given Smith's reputation, it seems beyond belief that he'd run to Jackson for help. With respect to Jackson's status, my understanding is that he needs to be active for 6 games to gain unrestricted status. I really don't like the idea of forcing a player in like this, which is why I've advocated that Goodell try to end this mess. Once Jackson is in, how could he be concerned with anything other than keeping from getting injured? I'm thinking he's a no-show, and like you say, banks on a new CBA rendering all this BS null and void.

    Concudan:

    I've said a number of times that whatever the team's reasoning for not signing Jackson, fine, get rid of the bum... To you and others, I say this; given this unusual circumstance, I would tend to believe that it's well within Goodell's purview to offer some incentive here. All I suggested is for the Chargers to agree to an acceptable deadline, and if Jackson is still unsigned at that time, they release him with the understanding that they'd receive a high compensatory draft choice. Course, they're probably expecting some of those anyway. I've read that August 20th means something, God I hope so!
     
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  16. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I just hope we don't let them both walk for nothing at the end of the year.

    VJack should be traded as soon as somebody agrees to give us a 1st. And if the situation with McNeill starts to deteriorate I don't see why we couldn't get a 1st for him too. Then in the 2011 draft we can reload big time, and extend this Super Bowl window into the forseeable future.

    But for gods sake AJ, don't let them walk for 2012 compensation picks! Pay them or trade them.
     
  17. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    They made their own beds, now they have to sleep in them. The Comish needs to stay out of matters that don't concern him. Hell it's as if the player's have more rights than the owners do, something is wrong with that picture.
     
  18. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Both have "rights" & are well within their purview to exercise them.

    Goodell is smart enough to stay the hell out of it - as he should. :yes:
     
  19. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming that even happens.

    I can. Opposing GMs will probably see that he has no future here and use that as leverage for a cheaper price.

    As long as we have Rivers that window is open with our without VJ and MM.

    Especially if Mathews is as good as advertised.

    (This, of course, isn't meant to suggest we don't need good drafts or that more picks wouldn't help)

    Despite what I said above I'd still rather see them traded than let them walk. Just don't act surprised and pissed if they're traded for less compensation than what you're demanding in this post.
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    We got a 2nd/3rd for Cromartie, and there is no way in hell he is nearly as valuable as a legit #1 WR, and a legit franchise left tackle.


    Come October if and when someone like Santana Moss, Miles Austin, Randy Moss, Steve Smith (CAR), Greg Jennings etc... gets injured on a team that considers themselves a contender, they will come begging AJ for a guy they know can step in and fill the void. Same with McNeill, if someone like Kareem McKenzie for NYG goes down...all of a sudden Marcus McNeill looks like a knight in shining armor.

    That said I'd rather see McNeill paid, and VJack and Merriman traded.
     
  21. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Cromartie also wasn't sitting out with no prospect of ever playing for the Chargers again.


    I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if they had to settle for less than a 1st.


    Same here
     
  22. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You really believe the NFL Commissioner can interfere with contract disputes? What leads you to believe that? What in the history of the NFL gives you that hope?

    The team tried to sign Jackson, he did not take the tender. Why should they release him? The thought process of a team saying "if you don't sing by tomorrow you will be released" seems extremely lacking, or shallow. The player would simply wait, take the release and then be on the open market.

    You are asking the team to give up any rights to the player. Is that really your thought process?
     
  23. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    Why is everyone on VJs nuts? So far we have adequate plan Bs for both the WR and LT positions, it's too soon to call it piss poor. Chicken little syndrome returns...
     
  24. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Who is the adequate plan B at LT? Dombrowski, Thomas, and Green are all nothing more than adequate RT's or backup LT's. None are even in the same league as McNeil.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...ts-ferguson-quietly-becomes-nfls-no-1-blocker

    Ex-NFL linemen and NFL analyst seems to think McNeil is a top 5 Left Tackle
     
  25. markrc99

    markrc99 BoltTalker

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    Concudan:

    No, Goodell can't "interfere", but I would think he has some latitude to offer some assistance. Now, we might all agree that someone like AJ Smith would say; "All's well here Roger, thanks for asking, good-bye." That said, remember this nonsense:

    Goodell wants Favre, Pack dispute solved by Monday

    "NFL commissioner Roger Goodell hopes to have Brett Favre's standoff with the Green Bay Packers resolved by Monday — even if he has to force the issue. In an interview with the NFL Network on Saturday, Goodell said, "I think we've gotten to the point where we kind of have to force it." Favre retired in March but is having second thoughts about playing this season. The team has offered him a marketing agreement reportedly worth $20 million over 10 years, and he presumably would remain retired if he accepts it. But Favre also could be reinstated and show up to Packers camp early next week, perhaps forcing the team to trade him." http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Goodell+wants+Favre,+Pack+dispute+solved+by+Monday-a01611596156

    Okay, so Goodell will involve himself, and while this situation is different, what's consistent is that the team is acting juvenile! I am not saying that the Chargers give up the rights to Jackson w/o some compensation, but that they not abuse this fortuitous circumstance. You keep ignoring that Jackson was going to be unrestricted, it is Smith who is taking this new-found hold over Jackson and demanding the world of him or for him! Oh and yes, all those arguments that have been put forth to shape the minds of people like yourself, are lies and have been completely refuted!

    No one need remind me that Vincent Jackson is no Brett "lemme sext ya hun" Favre. Sometimes the double standards are too obvious.
     
  26. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    You seem to feel the Chargers are acting 'juvenile'. How should they be acting. Are you a proponent of the teams allowing players to what ever they want, when they want, and the team should simply pay however much they want.

    Also your example shown is well off the mark, unless of course you are suggesting that VJ is retired and the Chargers are trying to keep him retired as the Packers were with Favre.

    You keep pining for the players. Perhaps those young millionaires really found a soft spot in your heart. I don't sympathize with either of them. IF they want to play, show it by actions, not 'juvenile' actions.
     
  27. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    I'm just saying it's too soon to throw them under the bus. I never said that they are just as good as MMc, but have they filled the void sufficiently enough thus far? Yes.
     
  28. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    Scouts' views: Jets' Ferguson quietly becomes NFL's No. 1 blocker
    PUBLISHED Thursday, Jul 29, 2010 at 3:41 am EDT
    Vinnie Iyer

    Sporting News

    When evaluating the men who excel at doing the dirty work of keeping quarterbacks clean and steering running backs through traffic, there are no statistics on which to rely. Instead, identifying the best requires a sight test, to see how their combination of power and quickness allow their teams to tame an attacking front seven.



    For help with this task, Sporting News enlisted former NFL offensive lineman Brian Baldinger, now an astute personnel analyst for the NFL Network. Here's a look at Baldinger's top offensive linemen in the NFL:

    Tackles
    1. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, LT, Jets. He doesn't do his job with much flash, but he steadily has improved, equally skilled in pass protection and run blocking. QB Mark Sanchez should be thrilled the team locked up his blindside tackle for the long term.

    2. Joe Thomas, LT, Browns. Cleveland can't blame him for some of its offensive inconsistency, especially in the passing game. He is as smooth as they come. Could well start for 12 years and few notice.

    3. Marcus McNeill, LT, Chargers. He's the blindside protector for Philip Rivers, who holds the ball longer than anybody. A long-term holdout could be quite detrimental to San Diego's prolific offense.

    4. Ryan Clady, LT, Broncos. He is the prototype for the new era of offensive tackles in a pass-happy league. He is just a terrific athlete who must recover from the spring basketball injury.

    5. Jon Stinchcomb, RT, Saints. Teaming with up All-Pro G Jahri Evans as, Stinchcomb gives New Orleans the best right side in the NFL.

    6. Andrew Whitworth, LT, Bengals. Cincinnati could afford to close the book early on Levi Jones with Whitworth ready to solidify Carson Palmer's blind side.

    7. Michael Roos, LT, Titans. Roos shuts down opponents' best pass rushers, be it in front of the statuesque Kerry Collins or mobile Vince Young. Considering Chris Johnson ran for 2,000 yards last year, Roos isn't a bad outside run blocker, either.

    8. Jake Long, LT, Dolphins. Had a little bit of dropoff from his rookie to second season, but he shows the work ethic and determination to come back stronger. He's a mauler in the run game and in pass protection.

    9. David Stewart, RT, Titans. Tennessee's bookend offensive tackles don't say much or get much attention, but they speak loudly by beating up the opposition.

    10. David Diehl, LT, Giants. He and the rest of New York's line slumped a bit in run blocking last season, but he still stood out in pass protection after moving outside from guard.


    Read more: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/sto...ietly-becomes-nfls-no-1-blocker#ixzz0x5XY7ca8
     
  29. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Jackson and McNeill should try to be proactive instead of reactive. Everyone might be happier that way.
     
  30. markrc99

    markrc99 BoltTalker

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    Concudan:

    You're fabricating the argument... Unlike Revis (whose position I do not agree with), Jackson is not under contract. To paraphrase, it was deemed highly debatable whether Roger Goodell would or should intervene in a contractual dispute between a team and a player. I proved that he would and has! That Favre was attempting to return after retiring is irrelevant, the Packers were actually trying to force his retirement and keep him from playing ... anywhere! :icon_rofl: I agree that this circumstance in San Diego isn't as egregious, but the key parallel is that the Packers didn't want Favre anywhere near training camp. Here, Jackson doesn't want to put that uniform on. The media frenzy swirling around Favre was a fuq'n freak show. If you think that couldn't happen by forcing Jackson in, then you understand absolutely nothing about the media.

    Again, the real problem here is that the Chargers were in fact more than happy to part ways with Jackson THIS YEAR and that is all Jackson is asking them to do now! They've never paid him like a top tier WR nor or are they treating him like he's worthy of such an investment ... yet, due to the CBA situation, they want other teams to fully compensate them as such. It's really indefensible, but a bot will do anything. Pretty pathetic.
     

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