1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!

    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers. We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Kevin Acee: Mathews' talent not enough to keep him

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,291
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Mathews' talent not enough to keep him
    By Kevin Acee


    This is a terrible time to bring this up. But it’s the right time.

    Ryan Mathews could run for 400 yards and six touchdowns over the next three games, carrying the Chargers into the postseason the way he did in 2013.

    It doesn't matter.

    You build a team by thinking ahead. A general manager doesn’t live in the moment. He’s playing chess, eight moves ahead. And Tom Telesco doesn’t have to be a grandmaster in this instance. This is checkmate, already determined.

    No matter what Mathews does from this point, it’s what has already happened that makes this decision simple, even if it is difficult.

    Mathews’ time in San Diego has to be measured in weeks.

    It’s a shame.

    “When he’s been back there, he’s done an outstanding job,” Mike McCoy said Wednesday. “… He’s a great talent to have in your backfield.”

    McCoy has rarely uttered truer words.

    Mathews is running stronger than ever, clearly having gotten better in almost every way since entering the league in 2010.

    Every way, that is, except his ability to stay on the field. Mathews doesn't have an injury history as much as a never-ending injury present. It's not worth penciling him in as your No.1 back another year when you know you're going to need an eraser.

    While Mathews is perfectly capable of a phenomenal final three weeks – he led the league in carries (107) and was second in yards (473) over last season’s final four games – he could just as easily play only one more snap.

    Is there a player on whom you’d be less confident betting the latter won’t happen? You might cheer every time he touches the ball, but you hold your breath after each play.

    This was the case even before he had his ankle rolled in the third quarter Sunday and hardly played the rest of the game. All that did was provide one more piece of evidence we didn’t need.

    Mathews’ average of 4.4 yards per carry is one-tenth of a yard better than LaDainian Tomlinson’s average after five seasons. At that point, Tomlinson had almost 800 more carries and exactly 3,300 more yards than Mathews.

    It has always been as unfair as it was inevitable to compare Mathews to his Hall of Fame predecessor. So consider Mathews’ contemporaries.

    He has played in 60 regular season games since the start of the 2010 season. That’s 17 fewer than he could have played in, 16 fewer than Marshawn Lynch, three fewer than Ray Rice, even one fewer than the oft-injured Reggie Bush.

    It has been argued in this space that the Chargers should use Mathews more. His propensity to get hurt is not why the Chargers don’t use him more. You don’t not play someone that talented because of what might happen to him.

    But does it matter? He’s eventually going to miss time anyway. That’s the inescapable reality, no matter how much you want this kid who has worked so hard to succeed, no matter how much better you know the offense is with him on the field.

    He can’t stay on the field.

    If this was a make-or-break season for the two-time Pro Bowler, we now have confirmation he’s always going to be broken.

    Bad luck or not -- and he's had his share of misfortune -- doesn't matter. It's happened too often.

    After playing all 16 games for the first time in his career last season, Mathews went down in the second week (23rd carry) this season. A sprained knee kept him out of the next seven games.

    In his first game back, he ran 16 times for 70 yards against the Oakland Raiders. The next week, he carried 12 times for 105 yards and a touchdown – before hurting his shoulder in the third quarter and not running again.

    He ran just 12 times for 40 yards in Baltimore. There is no indication that was injury related but rather a concession to Mathews’ limitations in the hurry-up offense the Chargers utilized much of the day.

    Sunday against New England, Mathews was humming in the first half, running nine times for 52 yards – before leaving to be examined in the locker room late in the second quarter following a play on which he was illegally tripped and then limped to the sideline. He would miss the Chargers’ first offensive series of the third quarter, carry twice (for losses of 2 and 6 yards) and make a 4-yard reception in their next five plays and then was on the field in just two of the Chargers’ final 18 snaps without touching the ball again.

    While he was “a little sore” on Wednesday, according to McCoy, there appeared to be optimism Mathews would practice this week and play against the Denver Broncos.

    The Chargers hope that matters for this season. It shouldn’t matter beyond that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  2. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +375
    I like Ryan Mathews alot but I can't disagree with Acce's view on this. How long are we gonna hope on him making it through a season and with as much invested in him as the Chargers are. The RB position on this team is the engine that makes this offense roll, and we can't sit on our hands and have only Oliver and Woodhead as our RBs every season when our #1 goes down for 5-6 weeks every season. MGIII & Gurley early or Yeldon & Cobbs late in the draft are options. Free agency isn't great Lynch and Murray(I doubt the 'boys let him go).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    11,630
    Ratings:
    +2,072
    Well then lets draft a running back then with our number one pick. And with our O line his talent will be wasted also!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  4. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    923
    Ratings:
    +481
    Tell us something we DON'T know.....geez louise.....
    I've been pretty vocal about calling him a China Doll...
     
  5. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    I never too Acee seriously before.

    A "Mathews gets hurt a lot!" column in late 2014 isn't going to make me start now...
     
  6. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,326
    Ratings:
    +341
    Drafting a running back in the first round?

    That's so Ancient NFL.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    793
    Ratings:
    +389
    This ^.
    The icing on the cake is that if we shore up the o-line this offseason and run an effective zone read blocking scheme, then we can roll with late-round draft round picks like JX's talking about (although I don't know anything about those two particular players).
     
  8. Dublin Bolt

    Dublin Bolt BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,646
    Ratings:
    +500
    It's all about the O line....

    Any decent RB (that includes BO) can run behind a good O line.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    Messages:
    19,108
    Ratings:
    +2,928
    Lots of possible RBs to grab in the second round including Abdullah and Coleman, we could go even beyond that and pick up anyone that falls from there.

    Not disagreeing with anything Acee said, when RM is on the field he's a fantastic addition and makes the team even more deadly. When he's not, it's not the same, and it happens far too often. They'll utilize Brown x2 and Oliver likely this week, and if they can provide some of what RM did, the team will be in better shape.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Ratings:
    +162
    Rm is a great rb but he can't stay healthy he's not worth staying on the roster if he can't play. We don't need to resign him, it will only hurt us unless he takes a 1 yr deal.
     
  11. powayslugger

    powayslugger Feckless Slappy

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    1,291
    Ratings:
    +273
    I agree completely. Mathews had talent and youth on his side when we drafted him. After his injury filled time with us, he's still got talent but the injuries and frankly the fact that he's older now... and WILL WANT MORE MONEY makes this a no-brainer. Spend a draft pick and get some younger legs.

    I'm not in love with him, he's not really a power back, he's been hurt way too often.

    I don't often agree with Kevin Acee, but when I do I really want you all to know it.
     
  12. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    53,030
    Ratings:
    +4,976
    I honestly just dont care anymore. If we do not get better at OL it doesnt matter who we have at RB.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Pointyearedog

    Pointyearedog I only put idiots on ignore...

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,336
    Ratings:
    +1,725
    We still have to deal with this fact, the O-Line is what we have for the rest of this season.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    Acee's talent not enough to keep him
    By Lance19


    This is a terrible time to bring this up. But Kevin Acee actually never had any business
    being a football writer in the 8th largest city in the U.S. Talent enough to keep him?
    Who the hell gets the blame for hiring this pretender in '99?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,197
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Lance1953:

    Although the timing was off, the points raised are totally legitimate. Ryan is simply not going to stay healthy for an entire NFL season, which also was his trait at the college level too!

    All his attributes and merits aside, the Chargers will need another solid yet durable RB even if they want to be taken seriously in 2015 (I'm throwing in the towel for this season with this OL ) Brown & Brown are not those types of backs and Oliver despite flashes of brilliance will be an occasional 3rd down back to sub for Danny Woodhead. I'd love for the Chargers to reach a deal to retain Ryan, but we need another feature RB and with all these gaping holes on both lines, it maybe a more difficult feat than not.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  16. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    Seriously? Praise for a guy noticing--in late 2014--that Mathews has had a lot of injuries?
    I guess the bar for football writing in this town is even lower than I realized.

    None of us knows actually what 2015 holds for Mathews, re. injury. 2013 was a lot better than most predicted.

    And where is the mythical stable of great NFL running backs that go season after season without
    significant injury? LT was a freak...he's going to the Hall of Fame...99.9% of NFL running backs aren't like him.
    I've never denied that Mathews has had a lot of injuries, but when ever I begin to talk real-world
    injury comparisons to other NFL backs, people here continually change the topic. :tdown:
    Simply put, many compare RM to a mythical ideal, and don't want to stop doing so...

    Yes, Mathews has played great when healthy. Yes, he's been injured a lot. Now give Acee the Pulitzer, already! :roflmao:
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  17. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,197
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Oh come on, there's already a bevy of talented NFL RBs who have not had the misfortune of the injuries which Ryan has suffered. If you wish to compare him to the likes of Knowshon Merino and McFadden, then go ahead but I can bring up Lynch and Dorsey and a handful of other elite RBs! LT did set the bar impossibly too high, but that doesn't mean that we also accept Ryan as the new "standards" in injury tolerance.

    As to where we would get a RB, well the draft of course, you silly!

    BTW, Acehole get a Bilitzer price already for that fine writing :D :p
     
  18. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,291
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    This is hardly the first time that Acee has written that he had doubts that Mathews was in the longterm plans. I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this article. Nothing there to get excited about... just stating the situation.
     
  19. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,326
    Ratings:
    +341
    Mark Ingram and Justin forsett both on contract years.
     
  20. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    Sorry, I just don't see any "there" there.

    Mathews' issue--since the Chargers drafted him in 2010--has been injury.

    Hardcore fans have--non-stop--debated whether his history of injury makes him worth keeping.

    Some called him a bust. Some said "time to cut bait, and move on." I, though bothered by the injuries,
    have usually taken the position that--though he can't be relied upon--his talent probably makes him worth keeping.
    (but then, I don't think hardly any backs can be relied upon).
    I'm not hardcore about it...I just don't employ the magic-land thinking of many fans who fantasize
    that other teams, with lesser backs, somehow aren't dealing with injury near as much. So where we differ,
    principally, is that I've been realistic about how often backs get hurt in the NFL, and use that more
    as my measuring stick than the absurd LT comparison...(which I honestly think is not consciously done by others)

    All that said, back to the main issue: Now in December 2014 Kevin Acee writes a column about this old debate,
    and people act as if it's something new, or something insightful, or that somehow Acee's name on
    it should make it worth a sh/t. I don't "have such a problem with this article," but I also don't know
    why it would make me suddenly think Acee knows what he's talking about...or that KA weighing in
    on the issue is persuasive or matters.
    Hey, if others are impressed by it, fine...no skin off my nose.
    Some people think One Direction is better than the Beatles...
     
  21. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    22,291
    Ratings:
    +4,401
    Again, I don't get your beef. I haven't seen anyone claim Acee is some great writer because he stated the obvious. I'm not sure why Acee gets under your skin so much..... he's a lesser light, but so is anyone employed by that rag. Much ado about nothing, in my view.
     
  22. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    14,278
    Ratings:
    +1,886
    The Acee article is just a day late and a dollar short, it's not real news concerning RM injury plight. Now if he knows RM in fact won't be back because of injury then he'd have something other than that most Bolt fans already figured RM's ticket is punched one way or another, just waiting for validation.
     
  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    Well, you're kind of making my point ("he stated the obvious") for me...
    but then there's all the reaction as if Acee's "day late and a dollar short" (thanks, Hex)
    chiming in was of significance.
    If KA knows that the Chargers have made a decision, re. RM, by all means, communicate that to the fan base.

    But if KA is just trying to get attention, in a world where his opinion + $4.50 will get you a coffee at Starbucks...
    well...whatever. You keep overstating my position, Blue.: Acee isn't "under my skin"
    just because I point out that I see no reason to take this particular word fart real seriously.
    It makes sense that Acee would try to be taken seriously...(as an uneducated Rush Limbaugh wants to be taken seriously),
    but I'm having a gentle, polite laugh at those that are taking him seriously.
     
  24. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +375
    If he wants to come back as a #2 than sure. This team is built by running the ball and his inconsistency on getting on the field is gonna likely get him cut. Is it too much to ask for a starting RB to at least be healthy for first half of each season? I don't understand why you constantly think having a standard for a healthy running back is unrealistic?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Blitzy

    Blitzy Spanos Chargers Troll

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,197
    Ratings:
    +1,024
    Oh bonny boy JohnnyX is sharing his precious red X's with Lance & I today. How cute is our little widdle Johnny! Thank you Hun ;)
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  26. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    14,278
    Ratings:
    +1,886
    If you're one of those computer wizard type dudes ( I'm not ) ain't there some kind of search mode to look that kind of Shite up??? Might be kind of cool finding out the results.
     
  27. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    God, Hex, I've posted sets of numbers so many times...
    guys like Johnny always ignore the numbers
    and argue from their hunch/perceptions.

    The bad news? That's an embarrassing way to go through life...
    where reality is not your friend.
    The good news? He's got lots of company...the number of fans
    who form opinions and make strong assertions that are just going
    with how things "seem" to them...
    well, they'll probably always outnumber the more sober ones...to be expected.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  28. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX 2017 Chargers Head Coach

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    2,577
    Ratings:
    +375
    I don't know what you're arguing against. I agree with your numbers that running backs in the NFL have a short career. I just don't see your reasoning for the Chargers to keep him simply because he has talent. The is easy for TT to see, the hard decision is should they keep him in hopes that the injury problems can be settled? I don't believe they have hope for him anymore. They already brought Donald Brown has a relief for RM and that hasn't helped him either.

    Oh and stop acting like you have inside source on the team, that your opinion is somehow more accurate. Hunches/perceptions is EXACTLY what we have to deal with here. We are still discussing whether or not the team should keep Ryan Mathews or not right?
     
  29. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2011
    Messages:
    4,694
    Ratings:
    +2,150
    I never thought of paying attention and logic as "insider information"...but after talking to you,
    perhaps I might start. Actually, not that you'd check, but my predictions do turn out to be
    a lot more accurate than most (you could check!) :D...but that's because I generally think before I type,
    and base opinions on prior performance & data...more than "well, it seems like..."

    Many of you have been discussing whether to keep Mathews...I've mostly been making fun of the idea
    that Acee's attempt to weigh in at this time is actually taken as "something" other than what it it. Empty calories.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2014
  30. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,050
    Ratings:
    +942
    Some of you guys are the most ungrateful individuals I've ever seen. Simply put, if Mathews didn't do what he did to close out the season in 2014 with those monsterous 4 games he had, the Chargers wouldn't have been in the playoffs and you wouldn't have celebrated a win in Cincy and hopes of beating Denver in Denver again.

    Yes, Mathews isn't the most healthy back in the league, that's obvious, but when healthy the guy is a top 10 back for sure, no doubt about it. Speed, power, vision. He has it all. I'm sorry but guys like Oliver, Brown and Woodhead don't have that. Unfortunately for us, because this is a contract year for Mathews, I highly doubt he gets higher than 2 year deal on the open market. He's more likely to re-sign with us for a cheaper, show me what you got contract. He'll be 28-29 when he hits the open market again and he can cash out on a final contract.

    If it were me, and I'm sure Telesco, I'd draft a RB in the 4th-5th round, where you can get excellent value at a very deep 2015 RB draft class. My favorite in those rounds as of right now is Kenny Hilliard.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page