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Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by SuperCharger92, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Martez Wilson couldn't catch on with the Raiders, waived to make room for Miles Burris, Chargers are 10th in line of the waiver order, If I'm Telesco I make a move for him if he lasts. Hell of an athlete, fits this 3-4/4-3 Multiple Sets we run. Think he provides more than what we have now on the roster for pass rushers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Mayhaps he will be gone.
     
  3. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    There is no doubt that you would love something about a website spewing generalities down at that level. If you want to ramp up your knowledge somewhat, check out this one.

    http://pacstud.webs.com/

    pacstud is a mod at .com. He has coached OL at a college level. This is only a short sample of eight games because it was so much work to produce. But here is an insight how real coaches evaluate offensive linemen. Everything is broken down play by play. And believe me... if Clary REALLY was nearly as bad as some of the cretins say he is... he would have been out of a job long ago.
     
  4. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Great insight on Clary's last 3 years. Since his 2010 season is half way done.
     
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  5. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Is there anything at that site that is after 2010?
     
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  6. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Read what he wrote. Learn about football. Being a wise guy requires no education.
     
  7. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    What if one instead, attempts to impress you with redundant adjectives?
     
  8. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    A lot of football punditry has fallen down to the Bleacher Report level. Those who have never played the game at any level are trying to get a handle on every team in the league. The results are directly proportional to their lack of research and background knowledge. You would hope that a scribe or wannabe scribe who focuses solely on the Chargers could come closer to getting things right. But laziness abounds.

    My prof girlfriend teaches a World History class in a journalism program in a post-secondary institution. The little shets with their mugs firmly planted in Facebook wonder what one has to do with the other.
     
  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Ahhh... Perhaps an education is needed. Why don't you enlighten us as to how Clary's play in 2010 means anything about his play in 2013. Perhaps you can use the vaunted education you got from reading the play by play line analysis from 2.5 seasons ago and apply it to the play we see today. Perhaps in reviewing statements such as "Clary got rolled up on" you have been educated to a higher level of understanding of OL play. So please, enlighten us.

    Are you able to do that?

    Your links indicate Clary had some good plays in 2010, but the same could be said of all the players on the OL. Even Vasquez who many accounted his failures to Clary. But in no way does that defend or discuss his play this season, or even last season does it? It certainly doesn't excuse your consistent calling of names in this thread.

    Maybe you are having a bad day. If so, sorry to hear that.
     
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  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    So what position did you play?
     
  11. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Conc. Spare me this garbage. This is extremely good material. If you are too lazy or disinterested... fine.
     
  12. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    How good is it from what I have seen the guy never says anything bad about the linemen. You are not the first to post the link to that site.

    I mean seriously, do you have anything that covers the last 2 seasons?

    Your in here calling names and acting like you are smarter than everyone and the trash you give is 2.5 years old. Shame on you. You are being a hypocrite for calling names, when you have called others out on it. Your supposed game knowledge is poorly communicated and backed with old data. Sorry if I am less that impressed by your knowledge you bring to the table. No matter how hard you pat your own back.
     
  13. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Read it play for play... and figure out how it works. That alone is enough to debunk your last post.
     
  14. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    In other words the answer is no you cant discuss current line play.

    Very well I shall consider that in future discussions.
     
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  15. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Consider what you want. I am only citing how much work it is to formulate an educated opinion. Uneducated opinions are a dime a dozen. To my knowledge nobody else other than pacstud has gone through a recording and graded each blocking assignment on the two point system. That is... other than the real coaches.
     
  16. Kayworks

    Kayworks BoltTalker

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    Go Chargers !
    I Meant Go Concudan!

    LOL
     
  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Ok, nobody is saying Clary played bad in 2010. The link you posted is totally irrelevant to opinions of Clary's play in 2011, 2012, and now at a new position 2013. If you've watched 42 of those games, doesn't take much knowledge or education to know Clary has been average if best over that time span, whether a coach or spectator. He's been an inconsistent player his entire career, and this is a last ditch effort to save his career as a Charger - moving him to RG.

    Why don't you contact him to grade the current OL in 2013. I would love some insight.
     
  18. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Sorry I did not nean to monopolize the thread.
     
  19. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    My suggestion is that after studying the examples you do it yourselves... or at least try. You'd have to DVR the games and go through it one offensive play at a time. The explanations of the formations and the grading system is there.

    I watch this stuff pretty carefully as the LOS is my favorite part of a football game. matilack's contention is that Clary was never a good player. pacstud's analysis disputes this. I am sure the current version would reveal that Clary is a good, but not great player.
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    A) Try to educate yourself on how PFT.com works before you just dismiss it. They have some of the most interesting statistics like tackling efficiency, yards per cover (DBs) accuracy percentage vs 3-4 and 4-3 and cover 2 etc...which takes into account drops and when the QB is hit. Really deep stuff for every position.

    B) When you're trying as hard as you are right now to seem superior to someone, it's more convincing if you use something recent. Clary's 2010 performance (arguably his peak) is not how he's performing today, end if story. Unless your actually suggesting we should forgive his bad performance now in favor of a few good games 3 years ago? Seems like a bad business plan.

    BTW, no need for personal attacks. I don't know what I do to draw it out of people lately but it's old now. Time to grow up.
     
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  21. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    A) No it wasn't. What I said is he makes elite RT money and has never played like an elite RT.

    B) No it didn't.

    C) You're sure, are you? Without any evidence you're sure pacstud's study would back you up if it were more current? I'm gonna let that one stew for a bit...:speechless:
     
  22. Kayworks

    Kayworks BoltTalker

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    Clary was peaking in 2010.. There "seem" be a good group around him to make him play better. No saying he doesn't have that now. But honestly 2010 >2013(From what we've seen)
     
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  23. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Also the contract's guaranteed money was front loaded so that they could cut him if he's playing like he is.
     
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  24. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    And they would of taken a $3M+ hit of dead money added onto Meachem's and Gaither's dead money already, so they gave him 1 more season at a new position, and honestly just don't see how he's on this roster in 2014-15.
     
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  25. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Football Outsider's is actually a better site for meaningful stats than PFF. Familiarize yourself with their DVOA methodology and you'll see why.

    As for pacstud, I've read his work & the knowledge he exhibits is quite good. Some of his conclusions? A bit more subjective, IMO.
     
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  26. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    I am familiar with it, I respect both sources and prefer neither.
     
  27. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    I think Telesco may defer to the coaching staff on this one as to how comfortable they feel about having another hole to try and fill (since Te'o is showing more and more that while he's a good asset to have, he's not a 3-down LB). Weigh those concerns against how much Butler is actually seeking and we'll see. I don't doubt, despite the fact that they're different types of ILB, that part of the reasoning behind drafting Mant'i was that he had the football IQ to be the "green dot" guy (i.e. the one with the earpiece in his headset transmitting from the sideline/booth) if something were to happen to Butler. I'm about 50/50 right now, maybe leaning a bit more towards 60/40 to keep him. If we had anyone remotely comparable and capable of stepping into his "outside-of-leadership" roles on defense, I'd be a lot less wary of letting him walk - but we don't.

    Thing is... Weddle will be more likely to restructure his contract to retain one of his current teammates versus to give the front office more money to play with on the free agent market. Same could likely be said for Gates and Rivers (though I think Rivers not having any more guaranteed monies on his contract after this season is reason enough for him to want to restructure).

    We're going to turn over, I'd wager at least 2 defensive starters from this season's "first choice" (i.e. if everyone was healthy) starters, maybe more. At this point, I'd sooner give the money to Butler and make a stab at using his injury history as a means of either getting his annual-average down for a similar guaranteed sum compared to what other ILB's of his caliber as opposed to, say, re-signing Cam Thomas to a low-level starter's deal. The defense is visibly different when Butler is on the field versus off it - it really doesn't change all that much one way or another if Cam is on or off.
     
  28. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    There's a reason he couldn't catch on. He doesn't really understand or follow a playbook well - which was why New Orleans let him go in the first place (he could grasp Rob Ryan's complex playbook). Might be "worth a shot" but I'd be expecting much more Everette Brown kind of impact than (when he actually cared) Jared Gaither.
     
  29. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Then I'd suggest you learn more about the dvoa methodology. You'll see why it's a superior way to analyze stats.
     
  30. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Do you find it superior on an individual or team basis?

    And do the results basically convey the same information but in a different language? For example "Clary Sucks" vs "Clary es mierda?" ;)
     

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