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Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by SuperCharger92, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    "We've made changes before," McCoy said. "We're going to let the DBs compete this week, and come this week, we'll find out what we think is the best combination for us (like) at any position on our football team. We're going to do what's best for the four."

    I guess that rules out Cox then. ;)
     
  2. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Screen Shot 2013-11-25 at 4.52.09 PM.png ? ?

    Cox: Year 1 of 4...$10.25 mil guaranteed, including a $5.2 mil signing bonustoo soon to "bob it?"
     
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  3. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    I think its superior at both levels because the dvoa weighting allows for both team performance and individual contribution.

    Clary is not grading well at RG on either site. Shocked I am. lol

    I'm not arguing Clary's merits but FO over PFF as the more valuable resource.
     
  4. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Clary's value lies in the fact that he's a tough durable player who can play both guard and tackle. He may not play either that well, but he can suit up nearly every week and play. Considering how many O-linemen we've had go down for various periods, that is still a thing of value to the team.
     
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  5. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    As a reserve, I agree. But you don't pay reserves (or even guys who can't play either of their multiple positions "well") as the 4th most expensive player on the squad (which is what Clary will be next season), much less $4.5 million for the year to be "tough and durable" but not play well.
     
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  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Sure, not if you can help it, but Clary is nowhere near the waste of money that Cox is, and that was Tommy's first "big" signing. ;)
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    You know how you can help it? Spend a draft pick on the O-line once. It's not that hard to find a RT/RG as poor as Clary as one might think. Hell we already have one in Mike Harris, and he isn't making near the same money. Money that could be spent on our terrible defense, or put back into the O-line.

    Harris may not be quite as good as Clary, but the difference isn't 5 million $ between them.

    As for Derek Cox he was a good player in JAX, his issues were injuries not performance (unlike Clary).
     
  8. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Agreed. And I contend that Cox, while not a top-flight CB, is being seriously misused by Pagano AND, like the rest of the secondary, laboring under the weight of a practically non-existent pass rush.

    Here's a real basic concept for anyone - the receiver knows where he's going ahead of time. The DB doesn't. Ergo, the DB isn't often going to cover the receiver indefinitely. Add in a mobile QB & the issue is exacerbated.

    But hey - continuity should fix it, right?
     
  9. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    What does Telesco having signed Cox have anything to do with Clary?

    Literally, that isn't apples and oranges; that's is apples and robot squirrels.

    Paying Clary starter's money when he is backup quality is dumb. I've already made my expectation fairly clear that I expect this club to continue doing the "dumb" thing unless/until someone clearly takes Clary's starting spot from him in camp; he won't be a pre-camp/pre-FA cut if at all.

    And I'd argue that even if we want to compare apples to robot squirrels... Cox hasn't been shown to be a bigger waste of money because he hasn't been given near the sample size to prove his lack of starting-capability worth that Clary has. Clary has now proven he's a below average starter at both positions he's played at, with quality players around him in each of those instances. We've yet to supply any of our DB's this season with adequate pass-rush so rendering full judgment on any of them at this point is premature.
     
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  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I like robot squirrels... Can I get one with a bad attitude and a fricken laser in it's forehead?
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Clary isn't a backup, though...... he's a starter.

    Just because you don't judge him as worthy of a starter's salary, doesn't mean he shouldn't be paid for the job he's actually doing. Staring RT's in the NFL don't earn chump change.

    Cox is athletically limited, just like Clary..... trouble is, that's a bigger liability at the CB position. Having a better pass rush would help, but it wouldn't change his inherent weakness.
     
  12. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    I believe Cox would benefit greatly at both an upgrade at the position coach & someone teaching him how to watch film. it doesn't seem to be the physical part of his game that suffers so much but the mental aspect.
     
  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    His hip movement is poor, and route recognition. But, nonetheless I agree! Coaching is everything.
     
  14. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Cox lacks fluidity........ doesn't change direction that well. Cromartie had the same problem, but he could mask that deficiency with his great straight-line speed. Cox doesn't have that..... he's not very fast.
     
  15. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    My best guess on the decision regarding Clary (back when the brain trust was assessing the 2013 roster) is that they recognized he was overpaid for the performance he was giving but didn't want to create yet another void on the O-line. Probably thought, "Oh well, it's a lucky year to be Clary."
    Also, didn't I read somewhere that it would have cost the team as much to cut him as to keep him (or am I thinking of a different situation)?
     
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He was kept because we couldn't afford to have 4 new pieces on the OL. Also, we would of took a significant dead money hit if we cut him. In 2014 he will be making $6M I believe, I know it's $4.5M salary and think $1.5M in bonuses. But, we have already paid his guaranteed monies so we could alleviate $4.5-6M from the cap in 2014-15. We decided to give him a go at a new position in 2013-14 but clearly he hasn't done much to earn a spot in 2014-15.
     
  17. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Route recognition would be improved with better understanding of how to study film. And while it's true that he doesn't have great closing speed, his hips are fluid enough if he learned to recognize formations/routes better.
    Having said all that, I don't think he's likely to ever be a good fit for the type of defense Pagano seems determined to run.
     
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  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    This wasn't exposed in Jax. Mel Tucker was his DC all 4 years there, guessing he had a scheme that benefited Cox. Only reason he wasn't on the field in Jax was because he was injured. I saw him face Brady last year, even though Brandon Lloyd isn't an elite receiver, he recognized routes, his hip movement was great, intercepted Brady that game.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    He's a 4.39 guy. He was very athletic coming out and his ball skills and measurables helped him jump up boards.
     
  20. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Maybe he was once......... but he sure doesn't play like that now.

    Track speed and game speed are two different things anyway. Jerry Rice was slow on the track, but he never had a problem getting open. Then, there are guys who run fast on the track, but their thought process slows them down on the field.
     
  21. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    Eddie Royal looked lost a lot last year and did a complete 180 this season. Here's hoping Cox does the same in '14.
     
  22. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    he played with injury
     
  23. EOTL

    EOTL BoltTalker

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    And in Norv's offense, which never looked like it had a place for him.
     
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  24. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    That's because Norv is a famous defensive coordinator and is not known for being an offensive genius.
     
  25. tittylated

    tittylated bolttalk cheerleader sweet

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    I think Cox has the athletic ability to play corner in the NFL however he needs to start playing with more balls and he needs to be smarter with his situational football. If its third and 2 dont be ten yards off duhhhh
     
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  26. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    That isn't on him - it's Pagano's scheme.

    Another issue - Gilchrist often shows up late or not at all when he has coverage over the top & Weddle is being used incorrectly in an attempt to cover other weak areas. I'm really not certain that Houdini could do but so much with what we have on the D right now.
     
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  27. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Harry Houdini would have made the best Defensive Coordinator?
     
  28. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Better than David Blaine, sticking a ******* fork in your arm is not magic!
     
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  29. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    You are my favorite poster here
     
  30. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Again, thank you, but it's going to start getting awkward if you keep telling me that!
     

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