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LT says trade #17.

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by ChargerMike, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. ChargerMike

    ChargerMike BoltBruthaFromAnuthMutha

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  2. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Hard to do when he's not the problem, but if we're facing another regime change I see little point in keeping him. Might as well sell high, when considering what the Eagles got for Bradford.
     
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  3. ntman68

    ntman68 Well-Known Member

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    Stupidest thing I have ever heard...
     
  4. charger1993

    charger1993 bad motherfucker

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    No it's needs to be done. Rivers is 35 he's not gonna get a ring with this franchise. I wanna see him win he deserves a SB ring. Is trade him and gates. Let them win.
     
  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Honestly I think it might be time to make a trade. Go full rebuild already.

    This is a good year for QBs, we could get something good for Rivers and be able to find a real replacement especially since we're within running for the #2 pick.

    Trade Rivers, Trade Gates, let them pursue a ring
     
  6. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    I don't necessarily think it's crazy to entertain the idea of trading Rivers if they could get a haul for him. I oppose the idea, but I understand why one might feel that way.

    However, I absolutely don't think that we need to because this roster can't compete. This roster has EASILY been better than the opponent each week this year. They're 1-3, instead of 4-0, because they're led by a hapless coward and because of the freak occurences of TWO. LOST. FUMBLES. deep in their own end.

    You give this roster a competent coach and this team is 3-1 or 4-0 and in the conversation for double digit wins, without question. So I would bag McCoy before I thought about trading Rivers.

    As for actual options, who is going to trade for him now? If Bradford merits a 1st and a coniditional picks that ranges from a 4th to a 2nd, then Rivers is easily worth two 1st round picks and maybe some more. What team is a QB away from contending and is going to give up that draft capital?
     
  7. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    A Rivers trade would help the rebuilding process in at least three ways: 1) by creating salary cap room, 2) by generating additional draft picks, and 3) by causing the team to suck, which would tend to produce a better draft position for the team.

    I agree that the team the team should trade Rivers for a haul of draft picks if possible. Nothing less that at least two first round draft picks should be considered, though.

    It has been obvious since at least the quarter pole of last year that the team simply lacks talent, is very far away from being a legitimate contender, and very likely is not going to be able to get anything accomplished during Rivers' remaining contracted years with the team.

    That said, getting draft picks does not matter if the team continues to have an imbecile making the draft pick selections. Telesco must go and a real GM that has a clue needs to be brought in or else anything received from a potential Rivers trade is likely to be wasted.

    And, of course, the other issues are that Rivers is a player with a big contract involving big salary cap implications and, of course, he has a no trade clause, which the team foolishly gave him.
     
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  8. Nomad

    Nomad Very Senior Member

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    How much change would there really be by firing TT and hiring someone else when John Spanos is the one making the decisions? We need to get rid of all of the Spanos first.
     
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  9. pure-sol

    pure-sol Well-Known Member

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    The Vikings if you go by what every talking head said when Teddy Bridgewater went down.
     
  10. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Your general premise is again way off base. This team lacks talent in a big way, which is why almost every media analyst picked the team to finish last in AFC West.

    Bad teams with lesser players can hold it together for a while (especially with Rivers at QB), but then their inconsistencies get the best of them. Lesser players fail to make the key plays at key times. That is precisely what separates them from the better players.

    Also, one should not put too much emphasis on leads held in our first four games. To say our opponents have struggled in their other games so far would be a huge understatement as they are a combined 2-10 against everyone else they have played and 3-1 against us with one win and loss (of the 2-10) coming because two of the teams played each other, meaning that somebody likely had to win the game by default.

    Basically, we have yet to play a team that is playing well.

    At some point, we might actually have to play against someone that is playing good football when we play them and then we will see what kind of team we really have. I am not expecting that to be pretty, though.

    Not subscribing to the McCoy hit himself in the head with a sledgehammer after taking us to two 9-7 seasons, I find the "it's all McCoy's fault" suggestion to be idiotic.

    Rather, what actually has happened is that the team has generally become progressively worse over time. I think Telesco had a solid offseason in 2014 (easily his best offseason), but then he had a very bad 2015 offseason followed by a bad offseason this year (despite making some good player moves and some good draft picks).

    Until Telesco is gone, the team will not be successful. He simply makes too many mistakes and those mistakes prevent us from gaining on our rivals and largely offset his good moves.
     
  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Don't see the point. Who will want a 35 year old QB with a $20m cap hit? Our best shot if LA, and they don't have the draft picks they once had.

    LA has the defense and Gurley, not to mention not too far of a move for Rivers. Goff could also learn behind him for 2-3 seasons.

    This team doesn't need a change in personnel. They need a change in ownership, changes in the front office and changes amongst the coaches.
     
  12. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    They were a candidate. But now they've traded a 1st and a 4th-2nd for Bradford. They aren't making another move.
     
  13. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Your general premise, i.e. that you can make up for your lack of understanding with nauseatingly long posts, is what's off base.
     
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  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    LdT isn't the GM

    Moving on
     
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  15. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    The person responsible for making the team's draft picks and player acquisitions is Tom Telesco, the team's GM. His bio on the team's website references his draft classes and his free agency acquisitions.

    The team has been driven into the ground by his moves.

    The team had considerable success when it had a different GM, A.J. Smith. The team was so talented that it was able to win despite having Norv Turner as its HC. They actually overcame the Norv Turner anvil effect most of the time. That's how talented those teams were.

    The current roster couldn't carry the underwear of those teams.
     
  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 Winners Win

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    Here we go.

    You're really off your high horse. The fact of the matter is, this team is good enough to get to fourth quarters with slim to substantial leads. They can't close them out and that is not due to talent. It's been a constant problem for the head coach, McCoy, his entire tenure here. He was brought in to change the culture, and he has not.

    I'm not letting Telesco completely off the hook, either. He deserves his fair criticism as well. However, the bottom line is McCoy does not have the leadership qualities head coaches must possess. His lack of adjustments at half time and his lack of accountability amongst his players have led to this dumpster fire year in and year out.

    This ownership group is scared of hiring a leader. They will hire sheep like Norv Turner and Mike McCoy, instead of lions like an Arians or Zimmer.
     
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  17. Hgrove99

    Hgrove99 BoltTalker

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    If I remember correctly, Rivers new deal includes a "no trade clause"...sorry LT not going to happen.
     
  18. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    I have no such of lack of understanding or general premise.

    Your point is so weak that you can't even respond on the merits.

    McCoy went 9-7 two years in row. There is no evidence that he suddenly forgot how to coach. He isn't great, but it isn't too difficult to see that the team lacks talent in a big way--bad OL, bad DL, bad/mediocre RB, mediocre WRs on the whole, one good TE named Gates, bad starting OLB in Emanuel, bad safeties and a general lack of quality depth.

    Further, there is nothing wrong with Whiz as a play caller. He is actually pretty good in that role--above average. Pagano is hit and miss as a DC. He isn't great, but he is not horrible either (as a play caller). To the extent he had favorable input on Bosa at #3, I think he should be evaluated for a drinking/drug problem, but as a play caller he is okay, not great, but okay.

    Again and again, Telesco makes the same mistakes. Telesco is the one that failed to re-sign Mathews and then wasted three draft picks to take Gordon, who is not an elite athlete based upon measurables and who has a known history as a fumbler. The information was there, but Telesco ignored it. He did it with Te'o. He did it with Bosa. He did it with Henry. He is the master of drafting "great college players" with shaky athleticism with early picks and the team has suffered because of it and is going to continue to suffer because of it.

    With a good GM, we are probably 3-4 years from being able to field a good team.

    Frankly, we should be doing what the Browns are doing--stock up on draft picks while we suck. Trade down to get more draft picks and trade down a lot. Trade players for premium draft value while we still can.

    This team is not close to contending.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
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  19. TheAutumnWind

    TheAutumnWind BoltTalker

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    Rams might be one; keep an eye on the Cardinals and Carson Palmer. Finally, I think the Jags are a QB away from being respectable. But of course, Gus Bradley is just a slightly more ballsy Mike McCoy.
     
  20. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    If Palmer doesn't right the ship, I could see the Cards as a potential suitor in the offseason. But I doubt they give up on him and trade for Rivers in the middle of this season.

    I do not see the Rams or Jags giving up on their high 1st round picks.
     
  21. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Case in point.

    Oh, and you're wrong. Perpetually.
     
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  22. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    1. In McCoy's first two seasons, the team was 9-8 in one score games, so you are simply wrong about the losing games late crap throughout McCoy's career. It has been worse as the team has become less talented in the past two years.

    Why is the team less talented? Because while other teams have been adding players with a full allotment of draft choices, we have traded away draft choices, had free agent misses, failed to re-sign good players and had bad draft choices with our limited remaining picks. Ultimately, these things take a toll on a team and it caught up to us last year as the team was enough worse to the point where they could no longer pull out wins in as many close games.

    It has nothing whatsoever to do with the coaching. The HC has been the same guy all along, which pretty much shows that he isn't the problem.

    2. Our opponents this year are 2-10 against everyone else and one of those wins came when two of our opponents played each other. Thus, we have been able to get leads against bad teams. Even KC is clearly not playing at the level they were playing at last year. We represent the only win for NO and IND this year. JAX's only win is against IND.

    That shows where the team really is. Getting a lead is not winning the game. Just about every week, a bad, less talented team dumps a late lead to lose a game that it was winning. That is what the less talented teams do with late leads--even against lesser opponents.
     
  23. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    Suggesting I am wrong without support shows just how weak your position is--again.
     
  24. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    You are correct. Rivers would have to waive the no trade clause.
     
  25. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Why would I offer evidence? Your Narcissism makes you impervious to evidence so there's no point to giving you any. And everyone else already knows your MO so there's no point there.
     
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  26. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    You offer no evidence because you have no point--simple as that.
     
  27. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    You keep telling yourself that.
     
  28. Chaincrusher

    Chaincrusher BoltTalker

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    No, I will keep telling you that.
     
  29. ChargersDepressYou

    ChargersDepressYou BoltTalker

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    I will chip into a fund to pay Assange. I am sure Spanos and TT have incriminating emails and God knows what else. Away with them all.
     
  30. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    John Spanos exists and is related to the owners so obviously he's making all of the decisions because, cynicism that's why
     

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