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Milliner, Rhodes, and Mathieu

Discussion in 'NFL Draft' started by LT-Express, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    All three looked pretty good. Milliner I think solidified a top 6 pick providing he has a good pro day. Rhodes just looks like a stud. Big physical corner with 4.4 speed. And Mathieu showed up big in the drills today. Looked very comfortable in all the drills.

    Pretty impressive group overall I thought.
     
  2. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I really liked Tyrann Mathieu today, but his broad jump and vertical were average-below average and bench press below average I believe. Flat out, kid will be a playmaker, both on defense and the return game.

    Just cause he is 5'9 I don't think he should be overlooked. Brandon Flowers has done pretty well for himslef, so has Tim Jennings.
     
  3. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Milliner likely won't make it past either Detroit or Tennessee
    Rhodes likely pushed himself into the first round
    Mathieu I'm willing to take a flyer on but I don't know what to expect of him
     
  4. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    If anything, Rhodes may have given us more ammo to be able to trade back, depending on what happens in Miami with Sean Smith. If he leaves in free agency, and particularly if Miami lands a premier receiver in free agency, they could be eyeing Rhodes as an early replacement for Smith - and a CB-needy team later in the order (like Tampa; possibly Carolina but I wouldn't count on it) could be keen to beat them out for him.
     
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  5. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Agreed, we likely will be in the best position for teams that want either CB or WR. Alot of it depends and I almost wonder if this combine might have opened the teams' eyes to suggest they don't need to go LT first round, although that's a very good idea. Team could trade back, maybe get a guard or a defensive player and go OL heavy afterwards.
     
  6. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Agreed. But there is no point in trading back though if we don't have a LT. If Johnson or (god willing) Eric Fisher is still there, we take them.
     
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  7. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    If a team offers enough (see STL and it's two first rounders), even if Johnson is on the board I'd consider trading back. Fischer is there and I'd take him trade or no
     
  8. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    HA there is no way even in frozen hell that STL is going to trade 2 first round picks to move up 5 spots. They could probably move up to 1 and take Werner for the same price, I bet you KC would take it.
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    I expect a trade in this draft. Whether 1st or 2nd, we'll trade back to gain some picks I think. I have no problem taking Terron Armstead in the 2nd/3rd if Jared Gaither does in fact want to play football in 2013 for our team. Its a safety pre-caution, and we could use that 1st rounder for the LG position, aka Jonathan Cooper, who could play LG this year and next, and then move to center when Nick Hardwick hangs them up. And then, we still have that extra 2nd rounder to use for another need, WR ;).
     
  10. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Why? Just to get more picks? Id rather have the better LT if he is there and if not, just pick Warmack. You dont trade back just because. And when did WR become a big need?

    WR is a need,.............. right behind LT, OG, RT, OLB, CB, ILB, RB & TE. Hec id rather draft a TE and move Green to WR. He is certianly fast enough and gives us another big WR.
     
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  11. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    If Gaither wants to play football for us and his meeting, which I'm guess will be real soon, goes well with Telesco, McCoy, and D'Alessandris there is no reason to pick a LT in the 1st. We can trade back, and gain a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Like Telesco said, we need a lot of good players, and he is a build through the draft type guy. If we get 4 picks in the top 100, most, not all of those kids will pan out, seeing how deep this draft is with potential talent.

    You can select Jonathan Cooper, who I think isn't that far off from Chance Warmack as some people think. And when Hardwick decides to hang it up, you could either put this kid in the center position or let him fill that hole we'll have at left guard. Our interior line would be stellar with Cooper--Hardwick--Vasquez.

    You can still select Terron Armstead in the 2nd, who would be, along with Lane Johnson one of the best fits for the ZBS offensive tackles in this draft. Only knack on him is his lower body strength, which he'll work on in the NFL strength & conditioning program.
     
  12. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Sure he is going to say he wants to play. He is going to get 6.5 million. Once the deadline passes, whats to say his back wont suddenly hurt again? To count on him would be foolish. The team is between a rock and a hard place with him.

    I wouldnt mind if they traded back if all the top OT's , Warmack and OLB's are all gone but that would be really odd that one of them isnt there. But you dont trade back just because you think you can get more picks. The lower the round, the lower the odds those players make it. Hopefully Telesco picks the right ones but NO GM hits on them all.
     
  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Exactly why we'll take an offensive tackle in the 2nd. I don't care whether we go guard in the first and tackle in the 2nd and vice versa.

    I just feel, with Joeckel, Fisher, and Warmack gone, the difference between Lane Johnson and Terron Armstead isn't significant, other than one played at a smaller school, both are raw. The difference between Jonathan Cooper and all the other remaining guards after him and Warmack is quite significant. You also have Cooper's versatility to move to center which holds a lot of value too.

    Either way the left side will be worked on in this draft for the future with the first 3 picks or so, that's left tackle and left guard. Then I think we get another guy who has played tackle and guard in the later rounds (Quessenberry, who I am high on, can play right tackle from Day 1 possibly, and can play left and right guard).
     
  14. Boltjolt

    Boltjolt Well-Known Member

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    Then why not just draft Barrett Jones who has played every OL possition at Alabama? He is more versatile and could get him in the 2nd round with his foot injury. Id still pick Johnson over Armstead. Johnson is just scratching the surface as a OT. And if there wasnt a difference in the two then Johnson wouldnt be ranked #7 while Armstead is ranked #50. Doesnt mean Armstead wont be good but with OT's, ill stick to the first round guys if i can.

    Here is something else to think about.

    Top Tackles all selected the first round:

    1)D Brown*
    2)J Thomas*
    3)Okung*
    4)T Williams*
    5)Staley*
    6)N Solder
    7)Clady*
    8)J Long
    9)D Ferguson
    10) Kalil
    11 T Williams
    12) B Albert
    13) D Ferguson

    In the last pro bowl those above with stars were named this year. Only Bushrod and Whitworth were not first rounders but they were named as replacements for Staley and Duane Brown.
    Out of 9 Guards selected 7 were chosen in rounds outside of the 1st:

    Richie Incognito-7th rd
    Josh Sitton -4th rd
    Jahri Evans- 4th rd
    Marshall Yanda- 3rd rd
    Wade Smith- 3rd rd
    Chris Snee- 2nd rd
    Zane Beadles- 2nd rd

    I'd rather have a 2nd/3rd rd Guard like Warford, Pugh, Brian Winters
    with any of the three top OT's over a 1st rd Guard like Cooper/Warmack
    with a 2nd/3rd rd OT like DJ Fluker, Menelik Watson, Kyle Long, terron Armstead, or Brennan Williams .

    A LT will always be valued more than a OG and we need one regardless if Gaither decides to collect his 6.5 which you know he is going to do. You cant teach having heart and he doesnt seem to have any. Ill be surprisd if he stays thru TC.
     
  15. Fossil

    Fossil BoltTalker

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    ^^^ Nailed it!
     
  16. Bolts4lyfe

    Bolts4lyfe BoltTalker

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    Just don't expect to see or hear anything about Gaither until after the draft for insurance, seeing how if we do cut him, we would only be sitting there with Mike Harris at LT,
     
  17. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Barrett Jones' value in the NFL will be at center. And why would we want to draft an injured player in the 2nd round? That would be just plain dumb on our part, but it won't happen.

    Lane Johnson not too long ago was ranked in the 41-50 range before both Jake Matthews and Taylor Lewan said their returning to school. Then all the sudden, his Senior Bowl shot him up into the 1st round and eventually slowly into the top 15. And he moved up to 7 overall because guys like Star Lotulelei, Jarvis Jones, and Damontre Moore all didn't help themselves at the combine and he did.

    And are you really basing your argument off pro-bowls? lol most overrated thing to do, and you neglected guys like Mike Iupati, Ben Grubbs, and Logan Mankins just to name a few. That's where Chance Warmack puts himself in that conversation when speaking of guards, he can be that good. And if the #3 overall player is sitting pretty at 11, I'll take that giving us some great value.

    I love Lane Johnson, and I wouldn't mind taking him at #11 at all, but if Chance Warmack is there you go with him. Especially if you have Warmack & Vasquez as your potential offensive guards for the next 5 years, they'll make Nick Hardwick look 26/27 where he was in his prime.

    And Terron Armstead is only at 50 due to his level of play. He was no where near that until he had an outstanding East-West game and week of practice, which earned him a call to the Senior Bowl to replace an injured Dallas Thomas, and he performed very well there too. I hate when CBS and NFL sites compare them to other players, but Terron is getting comparisons to Duane Brown and Joe Staley. Whether he can be that good, its up to him.
     
  18. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Lets not forget the 2 big free agent guards Vasquez and Levitre were also 2nd and 3rd round picks.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Okay, I see your point. But, Chance Warmack is no Louis Vasquez or Andy Levitre. Neither of those guys played in the SEC, where there are a plethora of NFL-type pass rushers and interior linemen, like Sharriff Floyd, Sheldon Richardson, John Jenkins, etc. And don't forgot last year Warmack had to block guys like Fletcher Cox and Michael Brockers.

    Everything about this kid, screams top-5 guard in the NFL after his rookie year.
     
  20. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    So what? We don't need a top 5 guard to win games. This team is built around Philip Rivers, he is totally dependent on the play of the OTs matching up against the other teams best pass rushers.

    I would happily settle for a top 25 guard (considering there are 64 starters in the league) in the 2nd or 3rd and take our chances at 11 on Lane Johnson who is more than capable of being a top 10 left tackle in this league, or a potentially premier pass rusher like Jordan.

    To be clear if we can't land Jordan, Werner, Joeckel, Fisher, or Johnson I'd like to see us trade out of 11. This draft is extremely deep in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds, just not very top heavy.
     
  21. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    It did for San Francisco, they had the best offensive line play this year, and Mike Iupati was arguably the best player on that offensive line AND best guard in the league.

    I'm just saying, If we take Chance Warmack at 11, I don't think everyone should get their panties in bunch the way some of you are reacting. Again I don't mind Johnson at all at 11, I was the first to say that after his Senior Bowl performance as he'll be an instant upgrade. And if Gaither does in fact play, again not holding my breathe, Lane had experience at right tackle so we could move him there too.

    #11.) Chance Warmack OG
    #45.) Terron Armstead OT

    or

    #11.) Lane Johnson OT
    #45.) Larry Warford OG or #107.) Alvin Bailey OG

    Both drafts I'll be happy with..
     
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  22. Chico Andy

    Chico Andy BoltTalker

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    Good point! Wow! That is a lot of talent that he has faced. Seems like a very safe pick.
     

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