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NFL rules that Saints violated the "bounty rule"

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    NFL finds that Saints violated “bounty rule”
    Posted by Mike Florio on March 2, 2012, 3:44 PM EST

    No NFL team whose city hosts the Super Bowl has ever played in that game. And the Saints will be launching their effort to do so with a very dark cloud hanging over the franchise.

    The league announced Friday afternoon that the Saints violated the “bounty rule” in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Specifically, the NFL has concluded that between 22 and 27 defensive players along with at least one assistant coach maintained a “bounty” program. It was funded primarily by players, with $50,000 or more available during the 2009 playoffs.

    Commissioner Roger Goodell will impose discipline. To date, the punishment has not been determined.

    “The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for ‘performance,’ but also for injuring opposing players,” Commissioner Goodell said in a league-issued release. “The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity.

    “It is our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of our game, and this type of conduct will not be tolerated. We have made significant progress in changing the culture with respect to player safety and we are not going to relent. We have more work to do and we will do it.”

    The league’s release says that the program was administered by former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, and that it included payments not only for fumbles and interceptions but also for inflicting injuries that resulted in players being carried off the field ($1,000) and/or knocked out of the game ($1,500).

    The release also states that coach Sean Payton, while not involved in the program directly, was aware of it and did nothing to stop it.

    General Manager Mickey Loomis also has been implicated; though the relevant portion of the release is a bit unclear, it appears that Loomis may have lied to owner Tom Benson about the existence of a bounty program and/or failed to carry out Benson’s directive that it be ended.

    The league will work with the NFLPA to determine the appropriate sanction, and the penalties can include fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choices. Benson may decide to take more drastic action, especially if he believes that Loomis either lied or otherwise defied the owner of the team.

    We’ll have much more to come on this one. There is plenty of information to digest in the league’s press release, which the NFL wisely dumped on a late Friday afternoon. Though the league deserves credit for not brushing this under the rug, the NFL has been forced to announce to the world that another one of its teams has been caught cheating — and doing so in a way that encouraged injury to opposing players. Thus, even though the Saints look like anything but, these activities also have applied a black eye to the NFL. It’s no surprise that the news is coming in the one portion of the work-week news cycle where embarrassing stories go to die.
     
  2. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    At first I was like... Huh? Then I remembered that Gregg Williams was the DC of the Saints last year and it made much more sense.

    I'll say this, I think the "bounty" idea is flat out stupid. If you're going to press your players to ball so hard that they're aim is to be taking opposing players out of the game then you should be able to get them to buy into it, you shouldn't have to bribe them. The idea of paying guys less than 10% of what the fine could potentially be for injuring a guy on an unnecessary roughness matter is straight up laughable. Way to cheap out and half-arse it, Greggy!
     
  3. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    And the paid-for-beatdown goes on:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/gregg-williams-apologizes-for-terrible-mistake/

     
  4. MONDO.

    MONDO. Well-Known Member

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    The whole bonus for making plays idea is great, I think that all players should just get paid straight commission. Paid a grand per yard gained five grand for turnovers and touchdowns. Ten grand for a game winning play. Many say lots of teams do pu out bounties so obviously if you're stupid enough to get caught you deserve the book thrown at you
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    So how long before the Titans and Jeff Fisher's name comes up? ;)


    Report: Williams had bounty system in Washington too
    Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 2, 2012, 7:06 PM EST

    Former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams didn’t start his bounty system in New Orleans. It goes back to his days with the Redskins at the very least.

    Mark Maske of the Washington Post has a detailed report that could submerge Williams in hotter water with the NFL. If that’s possible.

    Four Redskins confirmed that a similar bouny system was in place in Washington to the one in New Orleans. Only one of the players was willing to be quoted on the record. Former defensive lineman Philip Daniels defended Williams, while also admitting what happened.

    Daniels believed Williams started the program with money taken from players late for meetings or practices. Daniels said that former Redskin Sean Taylor made a lot of money in the system.

    “I think it is wrong the way they’re trying to paint [Williams],” Daniels added. “He never told us to go out there and break a guy’s neck or break a guy’s leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football.”

    The other players weren’t as generous in their assessment.

    “You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits,” said one former player.

    One thought Williams took the system “a little too far.”

    “If you took the star player out, he’d hook you up a little bit,” another player admitted, while also defending Williams.

    The most any Redskins player ever was paid in the system was believed to be around $8,000. Daniels said he got $1,500 for a four-sack game. (So what do you have to do for $8,000? Maim someone?)

    “He actually had a saying, ‘If you cut the snake’s head off, the body will die,’ that was his motto,” said one unnamed player. “It was made clear that he was talking about not just running backs who turned their heads the opposite way and how they would go down, but also about other stars on offense that were the best players on that team.”

    This is all damning stuff, but probably not any more damning than the information the NFL has already obtained in the Saints investigation.

    Still, it can’t help Williams’ chances of avoiding a suspension of his own.
     
  6. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    You were saying?

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/dungy-titans-had-a-bounty-on-peyton-manning/


     
  7. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    Williams needs to be suspended, plain and simple, then a precedent is set and anyone stupid enough to set something like this up again knows the consequences.

    Stuff like this has been going on for years, in many sports, so its nothing new or unexpected, but the Press are gonna run with this one and sensationalize it to the max no doubt.

    What I find the most interesting is the fact that millionaires would be expected to play "that much harder" for a few extra's bucks ?......... that in itself makes no sense whatsoever.

    If millions aren't enough, what, a few thousand are ?
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    He seems to do this every single place he goes, if it's true he did this in each of his last locations, then ban his *** period. I don't believe frankly this is worse than the Patriots spy gate but to do this in every single place you work in speaks very poorly of your coaching style
     
  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    And the story keeps getting better........

    Loomis could pay price for lying to league, owner
    Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on March 2, 2012, 11:28 PM EST

    General managers only have so many people above them in the NFL hierarchy. A team owner is one. The league office is another place you don’t want to mess with.

    According to a report from Don Banks of SI.com, Saints G.M. Mickey Loomis got caught lying to both Saints owner Tom Benson and those conducting the NFL’s internal investigation of the Saints’ bounty program.

    Loomis reportedly was asked about the Saints’ bounties in 2010 and denied knowing anything about it. He then ignored Benson’s orders to discontinue to program if it existed.

    “When informed earlier this year of the new information, Mr. Benson advised league staff that he had directed his general manager, Mickey Loomis, to ensure that any bounty program be discontinued immediately. The evidence shows that Mr. Loomis did not carry out Mr. Benson’s direction,” the league’s internal report reads via Banks.

    “Similarly, when the initial allegations where discussed with Mr. Loomis in 2010, he denied any knowledge of a bounty program and pledged that he would ensure that no such program was in place. There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices.”

    I’m no Florio, but I’ve watched enough legal dramas to know it’s usually the cover up, not the crime, that creates the most problems. Loomis did his best to cover up the situation. (He did not do a very good or great job at it.) He fell on the sword for his coaching staff. Both Loomis and coach Sean Payton could pay a steep price.

    It’s been a rough week for Loomis. If nothing else, no one is thinking about Drew Brees‘ contract situation right now.

    Well, except for Loomis.
     
  10. matilack

    matilack Take A Knee McCree!!!

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    Its not just Greg Williams, its the entire system. The Saints have been the "sweethearts" of the NFL since 2006, but the fact of the matter is they've always been one of the most classless teams in the NFL. I mentioned multiple times on this board last season how they ran up the score on teams, and deliberately and unnecessarily made sure Drew Brees broke the single season passing record. They've been extremely brazen and showed EXTREME arrogance in how they call games late in the 4th quarter. (Which I would happily take over Norv's nutless drivel)

    It doesn't shock me at all that their overshadowed defense would intentially try to injure opposing players. Every team has their culture, the Saints are arrogant, the Chargers are soft and masochistic, the Raiders are thugs, the Patriots are quietly brilliant, the Steelers are tough and gritty, the Giants are streaky, the Titans are dirty....etc and so on
     
  11. Boltbaby

    Boltbaby BoltTalker

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  12. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    I like the idea of a bounty, but it should be a reward for positive plays, and not injuries. Sacks, picks, pick-sixes, fumble recoveries, blocked kicks, etc are worth rewarding, especially if the "star" and "leader" players are the ones making the pot. I know that giving a guy who will be earning 10 million dollars a grand might seem trivial, but it's still 1000 dollars. You can take your friends out for a killer time at Stingaree on a 1000 bucks, or cover 1/30th of a night with a high-class call girl. For the married guys, that's a nice dinner and some champagne at the Hotel Del.
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    IRS could be interested in undeclared bounty payments
    Posted by Mike Florio on March 3, 2012, 3:42 PM EST

    Law enforcement generally could be interested in the Saints’ multi-year conspiracy to coax NFL players into trying to injure opponents in exchange for cash payments. Apart from whether the arrangement to try to inflict pain and injury on other players violated any state or federal laws, the placement of the payments in the players’ pockets could trigger a separate source of liability.

    Regardless of whether the money came from legal or illegal activities, the money received by players represents income. And if income isn’t disclosed to the IRS, that’s a problem.

    Go ahead and scoff. That’s surely what the NBA officials who traded first-class airfare for coach and kept the difference and didn’t pay taxes on it believed. Before they were prosecuted for tax evasion.

    The NFL already has the evidence. The IRS needs merely to show up with a warrant for the file.

    And if so inclined, the IRS can launch an investigation regarding the other 31 teams. While Saints players and other employees opted initially to lie to the NFL, lying to federal authorities has entails slightly greater consequences.

    Go ahead and scoff. That’s surely what Martha Stewart did.

    Of course, it won’t be a problem if the players declared the income and paid the taxes.
     
  14. Ride The Lightning

    Ride The Lightning Join the Dark Side, we have cookies.

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  15. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    it is just another incentive. The hit on Merriman and Gates was intentional. It is still a mans game and injuries happen whether or not a 'bounty.'
     
  16. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Yeah, a "man's" game involves cheap shots to injure an opponent you can't handle by playing within the rules. A "coward's" game is more like it. :rolleyes:
     
  17. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Football is a combative game and they don't say keep your head on a swivel for no reason. There is way to much fluff in pro football today the game is simply getting softer.
     
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  18. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Probably the stupidest statement on this issue I've read...... typical clueless fan reaction. This is peoples' livelihoods we're talking about. By targeting players and creating intentional injuries, you are risking their careers.

    Imagine the Chargers defense if Merriman hadn't been targeted and had his knee wrecked....... think what this team might've accomplished. Hard hits are part of the game, and always will be, but intentionally trying to "take out" other players is something that goes way over the line. Players' careers are short enough as it is without teams trying to intentionally cause injury.
     
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  19. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    NFL will now investigate Redskins bounty program
    Posted by Mike Florio on March 3, 2012, 10:16 PM EST

    Between Mark Maske’s Friday report in theWashington Post and former Redskins safety Matt Bowen’s Saturday item for the Chicago Tribune, it seems clear that, like the Saints, the Redskins under defensive coordinator Gregg Williams had a bounty program.

    That’s apparently news to the NFL.

    Maske reports that the league will investigate whether the Redskins used bounties. Though Maske, citing a source, characterizes the review as almost perfunctory, the fact remains that if the players tell the league what they told Maske, and if Bowen’s article is accepted as true and accurate, not much of an investigation will be needed.

    And if the use of a bounty program with the Redskins is indeed news to the NFL, it likely means that, when Gregg Williams inevitably was given a chance to purge his soul by confessing the depth of the rabbit hole, he said something like “I swear I never did it before being hired by the Saints.”

    If that’s the case — if Williams lied to the league about pre-New Orleans bounties after initially lying to the league about using bounties with the Saints — Williams has to go. Permanently.

    Apart from any discipline imposed on the Saints or any other coaches or any of the players involved, if Williams failed to admit the extent of his use of a bounty program after finally admitting to using one in New Orleans, the man who recently was hired to serve as the Rams defensive coordinator should be banned from the NFL, for life.

    Harsh? Yes. But necessary.

    Apart from the habit (not mistake) of dangling cash as an incentive to cripple, Williams hasn’t been honest, at least when asked about bounties in New Orleans and most likely when asked about bounties elsewhere.

    Williams both broke the rules and lied to conceal it. Given the underlying nature of the violation, the NFL can’t afford to keep him employed, not at a time when safety has become such a priority.
     
  20. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/s...unty-program-to-injure-opponents.html?_r=2&hp

     
  21. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    There's nothing manly about trying to jack a guy's leg. If you hit someone hard and cleanly, and they're injured, that's legitimate. If you hit someone in such a way as to purposely injure their legs, that's BS.
     
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  22. rickochey

    rickochey BoltTalker

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    It is just old school football. Personally I don't want to hear about it.

    um, Gregg Williams never really had a good defense-- EVER, so I guess he had to use bounty's to make up for his lack of coaching.
     
  23. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    The most "Stupid" thing in life is being an *******, I do believe the terminology fits you well. Then you go on to say "IF" Merrimans knee injury hadn't occurred. If the dog hadn't stopped to lick his balls you'd be eating rabbit stew instead of vegetable soup. Merriman had issues before that hit, there is no way in hell to say what might have been cause we all seen what it is, dude was a steroid machine and broke down once the juice was gone.
     
  24. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    then I guess if you dont know how to "PLAY" the game you might as well STFU! Cheap shots have always been a part of the game and there have always been players with a target on them.
     
  25. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I said your post was stupid, not you....... are you incapable of taking criticism without getting butt-hurt? :rolleyes:

    What the Titans did was to target Merriman's knee to injure him and "take him out"....... can't you not see how that's different from normal hard hitting football? Two guys hit him, one high and one low on his knee. That was clearly done to cause injury. That was where Merriman's injury problems started, and he was never the same after that.
     
  26. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Not a surprising response for a person who loudly criticized me for even bringing up the story of Dielman's seizure on the plane. How did that story play out? :rolleyes:
     
  27. Ikeman83

    Ikeman83 Werter Pöbel

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    Saying that it's ok for teams to reward purposefully injuring opponents is the moral equivalent of saying you should give a guy a high five for screwing a girl he's given ketamine to.

    Playing tough has nothing to do with purposefully injuring other players.
     
  28. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Probably the stupidest statement on this issue I've read...... typical clueless fan reaction

    Okay, if you say so but your own words tell the truth, not only are you an arsehole but a liar as well way to go.

    Merriman was all mouth and got what he bargained for. Cheap-shots have been in this game since day one and are as much a part of it as the ball it's self. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen and go sit in the sewing circle, I'm sure they'll make room for you.

     
  29. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    "Clueless fan reaction" is not the same as clueless fan, but I guess you know better. Nice job with the name calling, by the way. ;)

    Merriman "bumped" into Vince Young (couldn't even call it a real hit, since he pulled up before contact), and Vince acted as if his rib cage had collapsed. Jeff Fisher then put out a contract on Merriman to take him out of the game. He was targeted by two players, as you well know..... one hit him high, and one hit his knee. A premeditated hit job. Merriman's "mouth" had nothing to do with it.

    If my posts are so troubling to you, feel free to make use of the "ignore" feature. It might lower your blood pressure a little.
     
  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    You'll find that a few around here are having a tough time with that concept. ;)
     

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