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Nick Hardwick BLASTS Cam Cameron

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Thread_Killer, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Thread_Killer

    Thread_Killer Well-Known Member

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    Below an excerpt from the North County Times. Wow, this is the strongest criticism I've ever seen towards Cam. Nick also says some encouraging things about Norv Turner.

    "We are going to be crisp this year, this year, real crisp," Hardwick said. "I don't think you'll see as many lulls; we know we can take control of a game."

    Hardwick had issues with former offensive coordinator Cam Cameron. Hardwick is an old-school lineman who prefers to run right at opponents and beat them down. Cameron liked to run a few gadget plays and get everyone involved in the offense.

    "Instead of going after people, we were worried about, heck, I don't know," Hardwick said. "There was just too much going on. If we just go after people's throats, we would be better off."

    Was that a case of an offensive coordinator trying to make sure other teams noticed what he was doing so he could get a head coaching job?

    "Yeah," Hardwick said.


    That's a pretty bold statement, but Hardwick is not shy in his opinions.

    Cameron, incidentally, is now the head coach of the Miami Dolphins.

    The Chargers, meanwhile, are still smarting from a 24-21 playoff loss to the Patriots on Jan. 14.

    When it was mentioned to Hardwick that Tomlinson touched the ball nine times in the second half of that game after getting it 15 times in the first half, he frowned.

    "That's a sore subject," Hardwick said. "We were all a little frustrated, very frustrated. On the first play of the game, a basic play that is not one of our best plays, we got 11 yards from scrimmage. You might think we could run the ball all day."

    Hardwick said the problem was not with former head coach Marty Schottenheimer.

    "Marty didn't ever call any plays," Hardwick said. "I think he did a great job here. I've heard things about him in the past, but that wasn't his way here. He was pretty loose and flexible."

    So what went wrong against New England?

    "I think we weren't mature enough to handle being in the position we were in, which was leading,'' he said. "And I tell you what, they did a lot of little things that distracted us from our game and got us off course. We couldn't regain our composure."

    Hardwick thinks that Turner is a good fit for the veteran team. The offense the Chargers run is the one Turner installed when he was the offensive coordinator here in 2001.

    "You should hear some of the corrections being made out here," Hardwick said as he watched rookies go through practice on Thursday. "I mean, he picks up on a lot of small things that I've never heard before.

    "He can tell when a receiver is drifting on a route or when a receiver is making his break a yard too early. I'm real impressed with him so far."




    http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/27/sports/scholfield/23_14_537_26_07.txt
     
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  2. super_deluxe

    super_deluxe World Class

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    Screw Cameron!! :icon_evil: He didn't go for the jugular against the Pats. Our juggernaut running offense can make up for stupid mistakes, so we should have won that game. :icon_evil: :icon_evil: :icon_evil:
     
  3. sdchrger

    sdchrger Well-Known Member

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    The cam haters (Hardwick, Keenan) are starting to come out of the wood work. How long until Gates starts blasting away, because he was the forgotten man a lot last season?
     
  4. Buttmunch

    Buttmunch Well-Known Member

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    :icon_eek:

    I've always liked Hardwick though.....reminds me of those Steeler linemen of old.
     
  5. super_deluxe

    super_deluxe World Class

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    I can relate. We were fortunate for LT and the line having an amazing year. Aside from that, Cam is a lousy bum.
     
  6. stone86

    stone86 Well-Known Member

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    Gotta agree with with Hardwick and that mentality. Get the guy down and then kick his *** while he's down there.
     
  7. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    I have to say that Cameron wasn't as vicious a play caller as we needed.
     
  8. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    hey gadget plays are a useful thing to have - we don't want a dull/vanilla/predictable offense. I thought we had a pretty decent mix of plays yesterday but that's my opinion.
     
  9. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    I agree that we should have run more the second half. Maybe, almost exclusively, until the Pats showed they could start shutting it down.

    Instead, Cam tried to get a little cute with the playcalling, auditioning for a HC job evidently, and our WRs dropped those passes. Maybe Cam thought he wouldn't be a "sexy" HC candidate if all he did was run the ball and win.

    If you sense your WRs are dropping passes, why would you continue to call pass play after pass play? Especially, when our OL was pushing them back pretty much at will.
     
  10. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    Look at it this way; how many OC's from rushing juggernauts are thought of as top-tier OC's? The guys who usually get the pub are the ones who call more exciting plays and give the play-by-play guys something to yell about.

    I'm thinking back to the fumble-rooski play we ran to LoNeal against the Broncos. Everyone loved that play, but when you really think about it was it necessary? I mean, it didn't really fool the Donks that badly--Neal made it to the end-zone mostly on his own efforts in steamrolling. In a way I looked at that as a risky play that wasn't strictly necessary, but since it worked everyone thought it was terrific.

    Still-and-all, Cam couldn't have been all that bad. We did lead the league in scoring. But I do question some of his in-game decisions. Last year it seemed like there were too many times where our offense slumped for an entire half--usually the first half--and then had to go "back to basics" in the second-half to mount a comeback. How many trick plays did we run during those comebacks against the Bengals and Broncos? I don't remember any. We played pretty straightforward offense in those comebacks. The difference was execution.

    I've also wondered if it was Cam who was most responsible for our failure to get Turner more consistently involved in the game in '05 when LT was gimpy and not playing well. I've always blamed Marty for it, but if Marty wasn't calling plays he certainly wasn't deciding personnel packages.
     
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  11. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Like Cam or not, that's low class by Hardwick to b!tch about it after he's gone and scapegoat Cam. If the players make the plays, they would have won. I don't think Hardwick would like Cam ripping him for whatever mistakes he made in that game. Low, low class move.

    Maybe those play calls were keeping NE off balance on defense and guessing at what to defend and that is why we were killing them on the ground when we ran. Maybe if we ran twice as much, the results wouldn't have been as good. Maybe if the WRs don't drop the ball we walk all over them even worse with the plays as called. Funny how sometimes running is considered not going for the throat and here passing was considered not going for the throat. Bottom line, if it doesn't work in the end someone is going to b!tch about it.

    It shouldn't be a player calling out a coach in the media or a coach calling out a player in the media. No class.
     
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  12. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    Yeah we need more "cute" plays, like the reverse to Parker for a 15 yard loss.
     
  13. !~BOLT~!

    !~BOLT~! Well-Known Member

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    ill go with whatever nick says, dude's a warrior, at the skins game two years ago i was amung very few charger fans repping where the chargers entered the field, he told the crowd thier redskins just aint no good anymore. he's a leader and i was glad to see him finally starting to get recognition a few years ago if not last year.

    oh and hearing him tell the rednecks off it pumped me up all through the game and into overtime. well, his speach and a shitload of beer.
     
  14. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    It would have been better maybe if he had called out the OC while he was still our OC?

    It's not 1969. Players can say what's on their mind. It's not taboo. And don't forget that it's the reporter who decides the context of the quotes in a story. I seriously doubt Nick went up to a reporter and said, "hey man, got your pencil? I want to carp about Cam Cameron if you've got a minute." For all we know, Hardwick spent 5 minutes extolling Cam's virtues and then said something to the effect of, "the only issue I had with Cam is sometimes we didn't go for the throat when the opportunity was there..." then the reporter sees the opportunity for a more sexy story and starts asking questions about that. Happens all the time.
     
  15. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    I was thinking of halfback options or fumblerooski or reverses or other assorted plays. Those are 'gadget' plays and they keep a defense on their toes especially in a team with a good passer in LT
     
  16. WonderSlug

    WonderSlug Well-Known Member

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    Why would you need such gadget plays when you can run all over them, even if they stack the box with 8 or 9?
     
  17. ChargerRay

    ChargerRay #FireMcCoy #FirePagano Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    hehe, yeah i knew what you meant. A flea-flicker when they are not expecting it would be fun to see. Or maybe a half back option pass to Rivers. Umm..nevermind about that last play. We don't need our QB playing WR.
     
  18. PowderLove

    PowderLove Former Mod, Current Slacker

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    Only in D-troit, man.:lol:
     
  19. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    Trick plays are only really necessary if you have a Steelers-type (re: Roethlisberger) offense that is SO focused on running the ball that your passing offense is ultra-simple. Then you need to throw in a gadget play or two every game just to keep the defense from throwing 11 men in the box and playing bump-and-run all day long.

    Regarding our offense, I think we're diverse enough and innovative enough the five or six trick plays a season is plenty to keep defenses honest. Gadget plays are cool but like anything else only when used in moderation--and you have to have the right players to pull them off. Not sure I want to see Parker with his hands on the football 7 yards behind the LoS any more. Buster Davis? Maybe. Parker? No.
     
  20. Steve

    Steve BoltTalker

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    One of the things that was frustrating is that cam seemed to play right into what NE had in mind. They didn't want us to run the ball, and wanted Rivers and the WR to beat them, and that is what we did. Cam got a little bit too cute. He did that a lot. IT is one thing to take what the D gives you, which you hear a lot, but the fact is they are giving it to you for a reason. At some point, you have to make them step up and stop you.

    NE never really stopped our running game. As an offense, we need to make them sell out at that. Make them commit way to much to that, everything else will open up and they won't be able to stop any of it.

    The other play that was open the entire first half was the deep posts to VJ. Rivers overthrew one, VJ missed the toe tap, but the fact remains NE didn't cover that route at all.

    Being a little bit predictable isn't always a bad thing. It tells the other team that they must stop our best plays and players. We could have used that to set them up.
     
  21. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Almost as bad. How about if you have a problem with the play calls you go talk to the guy's face? Maybe even during the third quarter if you think LT isn't getting enough touches. Maybe he did. You can justify it all you want, but calling him out in the press is not being a good team leader and there is nothing positive about it.

    Don't even try to spin it that its the reporters fault. He called him out and its pretty obvious. Players know when reporters try to put words in their mouth and know how to say the right thing. Hell its almost impossible to get them out of the cookie cutter quotes you expect. Hardwick took the low road plain and simple.
     
  22. Thunderstruck

    Thunderstruck BoltTalker

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    How do you know Nick and several other players didn't take up the issue with Cam face to face? Oh, that's right, you don't.

    Re-read the quotes dude. It was the reporter "blasting" Cam, not Nick. Nick was just complaining about the way the offense was handled in certain circumstances. It sounds to me like what he was really trying to do was praise the current coaches and provide a contrast, but the reporter turned it around to be all about Cam.

    There are certain things you don't know from that article. The quotes Nick made regarding the lack of a killer mentality--was he talking about in general or was he talking specifically about the Patriots game? Did he ever once mention Cam's name in the article? No.

    I've seen enough press-conferences, and then read enough reporters' interpretations of those press conferences to know that the reporters will always make what the player said fit their story.

    I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. The reporter asks a player "do you think the offensive play-calling needs to be improved?" The player answers, "well, yeah, there's always room for improvement, but not only that, we need to do a much better job of execution."

    The reporter then writes only, "when asked if the play-calling could be improved, [player] said, "yeah." This has been a sore subject among observers all season. "We need to do a much better job..." [player] said.

    Yes, believe it or not, reporters don't always tell you the whole story.
     
  23. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    I said right in my post "MAYBE HE DID" that still doesn't make it right to go back and blast him after the fact. Bushleague plain and simple.




    I know all about press conferences and reporters. He put words in Hardwick's mouth with that one statement, but Hardwick didn't balk at saying "YEAH" and then going into more depth about what he thought.

    You can blame it on the reporter all you want. It's pretty obvious what Hardwick was saying and the point he was making.
     
  24. boltssbbound

    boltssbbound Well-Known Member

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    Yes, how dare Hardwick honestly express an opinion like that. Classless. Just classless.

    Lighten up. Hardwick was asked the question. Perhaps he could have been more diplomatic with his answer, but Cam's a big boy. He should be able to handle criticism.
     
  25. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    Keeping the other team off balance with unexpected plays, even if they're "gadget" plays is perfectly legitimate. Predictable smashmouth is still predictable. Just because a play is deceptive or involves misdirection doesn't mean the players are going to be playing soft. Any play only works when you knock the other guys gonads in the dirt. I was often less than thrilled with the play calling last season as well and with what looked like soft spots in the flow of the game, but being hardnosed isn't inconsistent with being wide open in your approach. The comparison I'd make is Ali and Tyson. Style doesn't mean soft. Rope a dope doesn't mean you can't put someone on the canvas. Cameron's flaw was in not knowing instinctively when to do one and when to do the other. The New England game was a prime example.
     
  26. timepiece33

    timepiece33 BoltTalker

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    Cameron's offenses were very effective. I'm not sure why Hardwick would criticize them now. Teams game planned to stop Tomlinson AND Cam came up with a lot of creative methods to adjust.

    Ironically, the guy least suited for the offense that Hardwick is calling for is Nick Hardwick. He's an effective center, but far from a physical one.
     
  27. Retired Catholic

    Retired Catholic BoltTalker

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    The Chargers have had strict guidelines about just who can speak to the media and who can't during the season, to preclude just such problems. Coaches and players do the press in a highly controlled environment on the Chargers. Not even the assistant coaches were briefing the media without ristrictions and permission. I personally wouldn't enforce a policy that strict, but I would be sure to avoid the kind of public poison that TO, Moss and others have engaged in. Hardwick's silence was a reflection of team policy.
     
  28. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    OH HELL YEAH! Glad you found this place RC. Love to see you post more over here. Hell I'll start talking up Turner if that's what it takes to get you to come over here with the dose of reality. lol

    Hardwick is not only ripping the play calling. He's ripping Cam's integrity that Cam would be trying to "show off" in a playoff game vs winning the game. It's just chickensh!t. I bet he'd take that interview back if he could. It makes him look like a punk.
     
  29. Thread_Killer

    Thread_Killer Well-Known Member

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    First off: Hey RC, hope you stick around, always enjoy your takes. :tup:

    Sooner, I don't have a problem with Hardwick bagging on the play-calling in the article. As for questioning Cam's integrity, I agree that is bullshit. But the columnist supposedly suggested that possibility, and then he just quoted Hardwick saying "Yeah". It leaves a lot of room to speculate that Hardwick was taken out of context.
     
  30. LittleTrain

    LittleTrain BoltTalker

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    Just as easy to say Nay as it is to say Yeah in my opinion.

    I don't think players should rip playcalling in the press, but maybe that's just me. It sounds like something TO would say to me. B!tching about wanting more balls thrown his way. Same as an OL wanting more run plays called.
     

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