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Nonsense and Non Sequiturs

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Blue Bolt, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Just the guys we were counting on at the beginning of the season....... Spurlock and Alexander. ;)
     
  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    COACHING -- A. As in Adios. Norv goes out winning three of his last four, but it’s not good enough. One thing can be said: The team never quit on him the way the Eagles did on Andy Reid.
     
  3. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Part of that might be the personalities among the team leaders. Vick? No thanks. Let Rexy deal with him ;)
     
  4. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    Say Whaaaaaaaaaaaa .............. [​IMG] ....please tell me Lordy that eyes decieve me !!!

    So, this is what the guy who is going to oversee the GM and Coach of a Professional Football franchise writes after it is established as to what number draft pick we have obtained ????

    Anyone else see something terribly, terribly wrong here ????

    Oh my Gawd, its going to be even Darker than I first imagined, this silver-spooned Frat-Boy is gonna run this club into the dirt.

    My expectations have just fallen deeper down the *******, well past the S bend, not even a RotoRooter can retrieve them now.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Yep that sucks. Confirms what we already knew: The Spanos Clan is all about $$$. If wins come along with that, great, if not, there's always next year :poop:

    On the bright side. Schefter >>>> La Canfora
     
  6. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Uh oh.......... poor Jackie has lost the plot again, and he's taken Ringo with him. :eek:

    Must've been listening to Ikeman Turner Overdrive last night. :D

    Just to bring a little sanity to this "conversation", there's absolutely nothing wrong with John mentioning the cost difference between being the #10 pick and the #11 pick. The job of any GM should be to maximize the talent of his roster. The best way to do that is to sign as many quality players as possible. Any dollar paid to one player, is one less dollar available to sign other players. There is such a thing as a salary cap, you know. There's only so much money to go around.

    The Chargers have wasted a ton of money on 1st round picks that didn't produce, so I hardly can blame a guy who'd rather not tie up too much money in one unproven player. If I was a GM and had the choice between the #10 and #11 picks, I'd most likely go for the cheaper option. One draft position lower isn't that significant, and the money saved can be spent retaining players, or signing free agents. Being just out of the top 10 is not a bad place to be...... it's actually has it's advantages.

    Remember, JJ Watt was the #11 pick. ;)
     
  7. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  8. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  9. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Chargers fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith

    There is stability atop the Chargers organization no more.

    As expected Monday morning, team president Dean Spanos informed head coach Norv Turner and general manager A.J. Smith they've been relieved of their duties. Turner had one year left on his contract. Smith had two.

    The firings, a surprise to neither man, come a day after the team's third consecutive season without a playoff berth concluded. The franchise has seen gradual, annual decline in results and quality of personnel.

    Turner was 59-43 in his six-year Chargers tenure, capped by a 24-21 Sunday win over Oakland. He had the support of his locker room to the end and will address his players at 11 a.m. in what is expected to be an emotional team meeting.

    "I really think, at some point, he'll be appreciated on the outside for the six years," quarterback Philip Rivers said Sunday. "He managed the ups and downs, the holdouts we had, the roster changes, the injuries, the kicks, 17 receivers (in 2010), to win 59. Now, I'm not selling that we're satisfied. But I can find a lot worse six-year stretches in this league — a lot worse."

    The Chargers won two playoff games in 2007, Turner's first year as their head coach. It snapped a franchise streak of 12 years without a playoff victory, its last in the AFC Conference Championship Game after the 1994 season.

    In 2008, the team began the year 4-8, all but out of postseason contention. But the Broncos collapsed with three losses in the final three weeks, and the Chargers finished 8-8 to win the division. They defeated the the Colts in Indianapolis before losing in Pittsburgh.

    San Diego last made the postseason in 2009. It went 13-3 but lost at home to the Jets in the divisional round. From then, it's gone from 9-7 to 8-8 to 7-9.

    This year's 7-9 record was the franchise's first losing season since 2003, Smith's first as GM.
    Team president Dean Spanos had meetings with with Turner and Smith on Monday morning, formally telling both men they'd been dismissed.

    "Our last three years tells you Dean was right," Smith said.

    "My only goal is the Super Bowl, and that is why I have decided to move in a new direction with both our head coach and general manager positions," Spanos said in a statement. "I am committed to our great fans, and we will do whatever we possibly can to achieve that goal.”
     
  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  11. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Smith's early drafts limited Turner's chances

    A.J. Smith, former Chargers general manager, ran the draft room during Norv Turner's six seasons as head coach.

    It was a slow beginning.

    The first three drafts produced one Pro Bowler in Eric Weddle. The previous three years produced 11.

    The draft drop-off mixed poorly with the loss of productive players via free agency. While the roster talent waned, injuries exposed its decreasing depth, together helping explain the downward trend in results that leave both men unemployed today.

    2007: D

    Buster Davis missed 23 of 48 career games to injury with only two starts. That's one fewer start than the draft's other Buster Davis, a third-round linebacker from Florida State. Weddle, a player of perennial All-Pro caliber, saves this draft from failure, but to land him, the Chargers shipped picks in the second, third, third and fifth rounds. Imagine if Smith took him Round 1 instead. Anthony Waters was released after a year, Legedu Naanee was a better athlete than a receiver, and Scott Chandler became the red-zone threat the Chargers projected. The problem was it happened in Buffalo. Paul Oliver gave a solid enough return for a fourth rounder.

    2008: D-

    Antoine Cason hasn't miss a game in five years and, after mistakes, proves himself correctable. He has, however, yet to make that leap into the top tier of NFL cornerbacks. Jacob Hester, a high-floor, low-ceiling prospect with special character, would be a fine get for the middle rounds. The Chargers paid a small fortune for the third-round choice, trading a fifth- and future second-round pick to New England. The Chargers had no second-round pick after trading for wide receiver Chris Chambers in 2007. They got zero contribution from the draft's back end.

    2009: D+

    No star power here. Larry English, even when healthy, struggled to emerge, working in the back end of the team's rotation of outside linebackers. Louis Vasquez, the best pick in the class, just had his finest season in his contract year. The versatile Tyronne Green might've had a better debut as a full-time starter in 2012 if the left tackle spot next to him wasn't such a complete carousel. Vaughn Martin progressed over 48 games and 27 starts as a developmental prospect and, while yet to become a dominant force, has returned the Chargers' mid-round investment. Something in this draft is missing. Oh, that second-round pick.

    2010: B

    Smith traded up three times in the draft, landing Ryan Mathews, Donald Butler and Cam Thomas. Butler? Future team captain. Cog to the linebacker corps. Thomas? Athletic. Offers interior pass rush. Then, there is Mathews. It remains to be seen if he'll ever become the three-down back Smith envisioned when making the move to vault 16 spots in the first round. The Chargers lost their first-, second- and fourth-round picks and linebacker Tim Dobbins for the No. 12 pick, a fourth-rounder and a sixth-round pick. Smith turned the fourth-rounder into Darrell Stuckey, special teams captain and the team's best gunner since Pro Bowler Kassim Osgood. But in a year of special teams blunders, Dobbins was missed after Butler's torn Achilles' before the season.

    2011: B

    We've reached the stage where it's too early in draft class development to offer a grade in good confidence. But Corey Liuget made a dramatic leap in his first full offseason, improving his hands to shed blocks more effectively. Between that, his burst and knack for tipping passes at the line of scrimmage, Liuget appears to have a Pro Bowl trajectory. Little has been seen of Vincent Brown, but from what he's shown, he looks like a player. His health is key. Jonas Mouton, at his current rate, would be filed among Smith's greatest swing-and-misses, but again, it's early. We'll have a better idea where Marcus Gilchrist and Shareece Wright are in a year, but both have shown improvement. Andrew Gachkar is every bit the special teams contributor the Chargers expected.

    2012: B+

    There is a building optimism within the organization about the career outlook of rookies Melvin Ingram and Kendall Reyes. Their athleticism stood out the first day of rookie minicamp, and both have come a long way since, playing their best football toward the end of the season. San Diego desperately needed to add pass rushers to its roster, especially with the expiring contract of Shaun Phillips, prompting this high grade. That said, we still know very little of this draft class. Brandon Taylor looks to recover from a torn ACL. Johnnie Troutman's rookie year was largely a wash because of a torn pectoral muscle before the draft. He could compete for a starting spot, perhaps at left guard, in 2013. Ladarius Green will add bulk this offseason to his frame. He's a natural receiver and could be dramatically improved come training camp. Edwin Baker is a very young player who impressed on the practice squad, and David Molk, a throwback lineman and perhaps center Nick Hardwick's successor, played more snaps at guard and tight end as a rookie than he did at center.
     
  12. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Someone press the rest button at the U-T........ :D

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Tony Romo ripped by former Cowboys Deion Sanders, Michael Irvin

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    She does minds? Dang - she gonna be busy! :cool:
     
  15. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    Can't say that Blue. There are several players we were counting on at the start that will not return and I won't be brokenhearted over their departures. ;)

    Hmmm... Hired Ron Wolf as a consultant eh? That is an indicator that there may be a lot more shifts in the front office - bet *everybody* has private interviews with him through January. I am already expecting the PR department to get shaken up - and don't think I am alone in that expectation.
     
  16. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    That was a joke. ;)
     
  17. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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  18. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    DOH - sorry Blue, am a little slow on the uptake today. :oops:
     
  19. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Michael Gehlken@UTgehlken
    Norv gave Takeo Spikes game ball. Told team playing Raiders would be fight. "He took it a little more literal than I wish he would have."
     
  20. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    Blew Balls, I'm with dumb and dumber (the original ones and not those axed ones in your sigi) on this argument (since I'm the dumbest, I'm well qualified to call my esteemed NN brethren as such ;) )

    John Spanos is just a chip off the old block and a cheap bastage. You over analyzed the argument too and although you have very valid points, let's not forget that we are talking about The Spanos Family in here and with that cabal, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is definitely (not probably) a farging DUCK!

    BTW, hey Jack (off) yer Ol' Bastage, Happy New Year and I still won't take your FT requests, so snap outta yer huff as it doesn't suit your usual jolly Ol' demeanor ;)
     
  21. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I'm not sure where the "cheap" label comes from, since the Spanos family always spends up to the allowable cap, with a little left in case of emergency signings..... which have been inevitable. If Dean doesn't shell out big bucks for Andy Reid or John Gruden, that doesn't make him cheap, it just means he's not a total idiot.

    You can't say they are cheap with the roster, like some other teams. During the uncapped year, they still spent the same way they always do...... unlike some other teams that took the opportunity to cut salary. Hell, the Bucks were nearly $40 million under the cap, and they weren't the only ones "cheaping" out.

    The Spanos family also gives a lot of money to local charities...... again, not something a "cheap" owner would do. I have plenty of issues with how Dean runs this team, but "cheapness" isn't one of them.

    You're right about being as dumb as Jack though. ;)
     
  22. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    Cheap as in characteristically and also habitually, but not literally. Just because they spent the cap allowable $$$ doesn't mean that they got great value for their $$$, as they went for "cheap" deals. Do I really have to name names? I think that Norf finally manned up in his presser and spilled the beans after :poop: had already hit the fan. When the HC's parting shot was that the team lets its best organic talent go, the blame didn't stop at AJ's doorstep ;)

    I read that they were paying Norf about 5 Mils and although that is not cheap on the surface, people tend to forget that with Norf they got both a HC, ehm..ehm and a defacto OC. My whole argument is that if you are always driven by an investment type "value" system, you will inevitably screw up on those human investments which need further seeding and capitalization. To Jack, Ringo and I, John Spanos's statement reeked of his cheap arse characteristics.

    The Stadium issue is another one of their "cheap" habits. Shall we get into that one? ;)

    P.S. Oh on the charity matters... It's a gimme that the owners of a major sports franchise are often charitable, very charitable. It makes sense both in moral terms and also on matters of taxation ;)
     
  23. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    Nails post - at this time last month the Chargers were spending the 5th highest in player salaries - I have little doubt they have moved up a notch or two since then with further guys being sent to IR and more players being brought in.

    Cheap isn't the problem - gathering together the right people to surround yourself with is Dean's problem. AJ chose to gamble, not only with Spanos' $ but with both of their reputations. Both are now injured by an insufficient number of those gambles paying off.
     
  24. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    You can certainly say that they didn't spend their money wisely, but to call them cheap is simply inaccurate. Dean gave AJ money to spend, but it was not spent well. Remember, Dean is not a football guy, so he deferred to AJ on football matters.

    AJ's perceived "cheapness" was more of a personal nature, rather than financial. He could've signed Jackson for a more reasonable salary at the time of his original holdout, but AJ always put his own rep ahead of the team's best interest. If AJ was "cheap" with a player the Chargers developed, he was positively lavish with a guy who fell off the turnip truck and played a scant 5 games for the team. The Gaither signing was certainly more risky than the idea that Jackson may relapse to his bad behavior.

    AJ was a terrible GM in the end, because it became more about him than the team, which should always come first. His drafting of Larry English was about him trying to prove he was smarter than the "convention wisdom". He allowed his early success to go to his head.
     
  25. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

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    I am going to say we get Bruce Arians from INDY and that Pagano stays as DC......
     
  26. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I'd be OK with that....... not that Deano would give a rat's ***. ;)
     
  27. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    The litmus test is very simple beyond this point. Dean Spanos stated today that his goal is to win a SB and for that reason he parted ways with the GM/HC tandem. We all know that if the Chargers are lucky enough to hire a great HC to fit this organization combined with all the tangibles and the intangibles required to climb back to the to the top of the AFCW, the FO needs to take care of their own first and foremost. So let us give Dean a couple of years to see if and how he passes/fails that test. Sounds good with you? After all, my gosh, he surely has enough experience by now to be a "football guy" (even if hands off) specially with John Spanos being such an integral part of the FO.

    I still maintain that the way John Spanos worded his statement, gave grave concerns to Jack (off), Ringo and I, plus many many more Chargers fans/supporters/critics/whatever... Some of us may have less intestinal fortitude than others when it comes to matters of $$$ and this team, specially when the owner's Son makes such ill-advised statement on the day when most, if not all Chargers fans, rejoiced the sacking of AJ Smith and Norv Turner.
     
  28. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    It was a tweet, not a press release, for heavens sake. Sometimes, a simple factual statement can lead people to draw all kinds of conclusions....... doesn't mean that any of that was in the mind of the person who made the original remark. Drawing conclusions isn't the same as knowing something for a fact.

    And, as I said before, the Spanos clan has always spent their cap money. There are other teams that can rightly be accused of being cheap (especially during the uncapped year)...... the Chargers are not one of those teams.

    Being around football isn't the same as actually doing all the jobs that John Spanos has done in the organization...... and did for the league office. Dean has none of that experience.
     
  29. jackfrost

    jackfrost Well-Known Member

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    Ummmm, NO, your totally doing your Brightsider inpersonation again my friend.

    You dont have a single fact to stand by that Little Johnny has a fargin' clue as to what he is doing, name me another high-ranking FO official that would tweet such a thing, especially on the eve of mass sackings at his club ?

    Hell, even a jerfoff like Dan Snyder has finally been smart enough to realize that he doesnt need to see his name in the papers every 2 minutes to have a successful football team, just hire the correct FOOTBALL MINDS and let them do what they do best, while you sit your arse in the luxury box, kiss arse with other buttmunchers and most importantly, shut the farg up and let me do my job..............its really not that hard.

    Plus and Ive asked you this a thousand times already in regards to many of the losers this franchise has obtained over the years, name me a postive that any coach, FO employee, Doctor, Strength & Conditioning or even trainers if you like, has done of late to improve this team ................you can't because it hasn't happened.

    The Chargers waste money on players REGARDLESS of their draft position, simply because they are clueless when it comes to evaluating talent, admit it ..................and that brings us all the way back to Little Johnny doesnt it ?....who's job it has been to evaluate College talent, so thats what I'm basing my assessment upon.

    They also waste money extending players who arent worth a crap, to longterm contracts, fully knowing they are either injury-prone, headcases, both or just flatout mediocre, run-of-the-mill football players.

    Want proof ?..........

    Wilhelm, Hart, Cooper, Tucker, McNeill, Gaither, Clary etc etc ..................do I need to go on !

    Next they'll extend the China Ryno to another 5 year deal I bet and then shake their heads in disbelief when he comes up lame again, or worse still, the Cromartie Clone, Cason, who the way he is going, may even surpass his idol in the softness stakes.

    How you could possibly think Little Johnny is capable of "maximizing the talent of his roster", is beyond belief, the Old Man has been the only Spanos thus far that even remotely showed a glimpse of football nouse, the dribble that is his offspring should stick to construction or whatever the farg it is they made their dough doing, because it isn't running a successful football franchise, thats for sure.
     
  30. Charger Dave

    Charger Dave Dead account

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    There are already some intriguing options being named for potential GM interviews, including permission to do so during an off-week in the playoffs... Going to be an interesting process. "Process" - a word we are gonna hear a lot over the next month or so.
     

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