1. Welcome to San Diego Chargers NFL Football Podcast and Forum!
    Bolt Talk is one of the largest online communities for the San Diego Chargers.
    We host a regular Chargers podcast during the season.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Create an Account or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Norv: Don't expect the Chargers to make the playoffs next season

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    Absolutely not, but his point is that we are THAT close to being a playoff team. So to think that we cannot over come those personnel issues this offseason, especially if the players are better prepared, coached, and have appropriate half time adjustments, things that come from coaching, this team can easily be a playoff team next year. But we do need some personnel issues resolved, to resolve our issues with the training staff, and improve our coaching and specific spots (HC, OL coach, strength and conditioning coach)
     
  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    There seems to be a odd notion on this thread that good coaching can make up for a lack of talent. It can't....... not in the long run.

    A good game plan can attack an opponents weaknesses, and try to disguise your own, but it can only do so much. The Chargers had big leads in games, but collapsed. Eventually, the other team adjusts to what you are doing to stop them, and they find the weaknesses, that you were concealing. And when you're playing against top QBs like Manning and Brees, those kinds of improbable comebacks can happen.

    Now, you can say that if the Chargers had a better O-line, they could've sustained more drives in the 2nd half's of games, thus limiting the ability of teams to comeback on us, but we didn't. We couldn't run, and we couldn't pass protect, so sustaining drives was a problem all year.

    You could make the argument that with a better O-line, this would've been a playoff team, but replacing most of our O-line in one year is very hard to do. We are also losing more players, at more positions, this offseason as well. That's why it's not realistic to expect a quick turnaround into a playoff team. The Broncos look like a team that should repeat as division champs, so that leaves the wild card as a possibility for the Chargers. And we all know that is a crap shoot.
     
  3. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    My point was simple....... the talent level of this team has seriously eroded, and will be even weaker after this season. More players will be lost, and more holes will need to be filled. Despite the fact that we have some good young core players (mainly on defense), this team is closer to rebuilding mode, than it is challenging the Broncos for the AFC West.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    And you seem to completely disregard the lack of adjustments that DID result in this team having enough wins to make the playoffs. This team looked like absolute crap in the 2nd half of just about every single game this season, and most of our losses, were games we were winning in at half time. Is some of that players not executing, absolutely. But you ignore that it had anything to do with play calling and scheme adjustments, which are 100% on the coaching staff (Not just Norv)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    I don't think a single person on this board would deny this, but I 100% disagree with every other part of what you said. we are not in rebuilding, not even close. Fix the line, fill some other holes will descent role players like we got in 04 with Foley, Goff, and Godfrey, and we will be just fine next year.

    I don't think anyone is saying we will be a SB team next year, but they will be a competitive team with a winning record with some major changes on the OL and minor repairs at other positions, all of which can easily happen this offseason
     
  6. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    Ratings:
    +2,696
    Is that all you got? I gave you 6 winnable games that we lost, and you pick a 7-6 loss to Cleveland as the right place to defend Norv?:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

    This is not the first time that I've gotten the impression that you simply don't understand what coaching is. Meachem's drop is a player issue for sure, but scoring 6 points in Cleveland...thats bigger than 1 drop.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +633
    Honestly, this team isn't too far off from the playoffs at all.. Norv sounds sour. He is right, about keeping your best players though, but still sounds like he is making an excuse for his poor coaching, like Matty stated, this team could of easily won 10 games with good coaching..

    Is it Norv's fault we only scored 6 points in Cleveland? Yes. I'm prettty sure we went almost 2 games without an offensive touchdown.

    How do we go to Pittsburgh and hang 30+ points on them? Come home and hang a lousy 7 points on Carolina.. Or how about being shut out in the 2nd half of about 3 or 4 games. Or how about the 31st ranked offense in the league?

    This team was inconsistent this year, and basically Norv's tenure here.

    I think we have 3 starters on this offensive line, Troutman, Hardwick, and Vasquez. If Gaither can get healthy, don't mind him, but I'm not banking on him. You draft a top Tackle in the draft, and draft another. Clary is reliable when it comes to health, but if Gaither is healthy, I'd put him on the right, and with a good scheme and coaching, maybe Clary can turn things around too, again not banking on him either.

    Then you look to FA, for a veteran, a guy who can start and fill in for depth at Guard.

    Then a few vet signings on the defensive side of the ball as well, and good drafting.
     
  8. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    I don't think there is any justification to keep Clary of Gaither on the roster, and getting rid of both will free up cap space. I also don't think Troutman is anything but depth right now, so we need 2 tackles and a LG, plus depth on the line
     
  9. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +633
    Me neither, but were gonna eat a lot on the cap if we cut both. If we can file grievance against Gaither, win that than we can possibly cut Clary.

    I think Troutman can be a starter. Reason he went 5th was because he was injured. He is mean, gritty, and a fierce run blocker and didn't give up a sack in 33 starts is something to talk about.. And having Dombrowski for depth would help, but yes I'd still sign a vet in FA.
     
  10. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    OK, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but don't be shocked, if we take a step back before we take a step forward.

    There are a lot of holes to be filled..... fact. It is hard to do a major revamp in one year. Changing coaches requires a period of adjustment for the players.

    Look at our division rivals:

    The Chiefs fans were ecstatic to be rid of that turd Haley, and they cheered when Romeo won some late season games for them last year. They were so pleased in KC that they gave Romeo the job. How did things go this year?........... they sank to a new low and have the #1 pick in the draft.

    The Raiders threw a hail Mary to bring in Carson Palmer to save their season, and they finished one game out of the division championship just like the Chargers. With Carson getting a full preseason with the team and a new GM & HC, there was every expectation for the Raiders to improve on last seasons record. Things did not go according to plan. They now have the #3 pick in the 2013 NFL draft.

    All I'm saying people is that a change at the top doesn't mean things will instantly get better and the Chargers will return to the playoffs next year. It's just as likely that they don't....... or even do worse.

    Don't say I didn't warn you. ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    And i hate to rain on your parade, but Norv was a terrible head coach and upgrading the HC alone will improve this team even if the talent on the roster stays on par with what we had this year
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    Should I save this post for later reference? ;)
     
  13. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    Sure, but remember, I said "upgrading the HC", which isn't a guarantee, especially since we didn't upgrade at HC when we fired Marty, and "even if the talent on the roster stays on par with what we had this year" which also isn't guaranteed
     
  14. Pumpkin Bolt

    Pumpkin Bolt Zin me!

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    4,421
    Ratings:
    +416
    I agree 100% with Blue! This team needs players!
    Its more on AJ then Norv, AJ let too many players walk with no plan to replace them!
    AJ's draft picks have sucked for years...
    Norv finally stopped being AJ's "YES" man and opened his mouth.
     
  15. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +633
    Okay,

    Oakland was a mess to begin with. I think Allen will clean it up. They never had a good defense, as we saw this year, and the offense ran through DMC. Palmer was never the answer, and still isn't. Too turnover prone. I don't even think he is back next year. And look what they gave up to get him. They had no way in rebuilding this year, in the 2012 draft, and I think they lost a few picks in the later rounds of this year's draft.

    KC, you might have a point. But Cassel was a system guy. He was never a good QB and still isn't. Jamaal Charles carried that team in 2010 (Cassel's best year), and teams were so worried stopping Charles, guys like Moeaki and Bowe were open often. We blew them out in 2010 at home 31-0.

    Both those teams you mentioned, don't have a QB of Rivers' stature. That stature including, when protected, top 10 QB in this league easily.

    You look at this current roster the Chargers have. And holes will fill in, and changes will be made. There is no doubt though, we have some solid young players coming from 3 consecutive drafts, 2010, 2011, and 2012. 2013, has to be another solid one, and as long as we have Jimmy Raye around, it should be a great one. Because, this draft is being talked out to being one of the most deepest in recent years.

    As long as Pagano is retained, which turning this defense into a top 10 one, merits another opportunity no matter who the coach is, will only get better.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    7,539
    Ratings:
    +814
    Everyone thought I was crazy at the beginning of the season when I said the team would go 8-8. Do you really expect this team to get that much better next year with a coaching change?
    There are some that are still on the Pagano defense bandwagon and want the new coach to keep him around. Really? The same defense that collapsed late in many games? Was this the coaching or the players? ;)
     
  17. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    Ratings:
    +2,696

    Okay then. I don't think anyone would be surprised if 2013 was another bad year. If we were to all give record predictions for 2013 today I think you'd see everything from 4-12 to 12-4....the full spectrum.

    Tell us all these holes you think need to be filled....you're doom and gloom attitude has me curious as to what you think our roster situation actually is.
     
  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +633
    And the fact is.. While Norv was here, every year we missed out on the playoffs, there was an issue with one of the three aspects of our game.

    2010 - Special Teams
    2011 - Defense
    2012 - Offense

    Every year there was an excuse. We got better at one thing, got worse elsewhere. Now you can put some blame on A.J., but that just doesn't give Norv a pass. You think Vincent Jackson would of helped this team's Offensive Line problem? No. Losing McNeill & Dielman in one season, and replacing them with an injure prone Gaither and unproven Green were our answers apparently, and no depth but an UDRFA and a bunch of guys picked up off the street.

    Norv made questionable play calls, abandoning the run, and piss poor time management on 2 minute drills, etc. The list goes on and on.

    I'm glad both of these knuckleheads were fired, and now its time to move on. I do have a slim bit of confidence in this Ron Wolf guy, just look at his track record as a GM yourself and you'll be surprised. Capturing Reggie White, trading for Brett Farve, etc. He made his team winners and he's going to pick winners for the job (hopefully).

    But then again, I always had that Chargers state of mind, where they just know how to **** things up as well.
     
  19. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +633
    Okay, don't mean to sound optimistic at all, cause this can change via coaching changes from other teams and certainly ourselves but, I think we all know Philip Rivers will be our starting QB next year. And with that defense, playing teams like Dallas, NYG (depending on when we get them) at home, Jax, Tennessee, Miami and Philly away there's 5-6 possible wins already. Then you add in KC and Oakland games, I'd give us a handful of wins already.

    Obviously coaching changes and who our GM is and how our roster is shaped will change my opinion. But tough games we have at home like Houston, Indy, and Cincy and going away to Washington, those are 4 very tough games and add in Denver as well.
     
  20. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,307
    Ratings:
    +633
    Well when your offense puts up eggs on the scoreboard after half time, constantly go 3 and out, do you really expect the defense to hold a lead? Given we had Cason and Jammer as our CB's.

    If you have the number 1 defense, and 32nd ranked offense, you won't win many games trust me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    Ratings:
    +2,696
    Thats what I'm saying, wait until we make the moves before you start predicting 2013.
     
  22. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    7,539
    Ratings:
    +814
    The point being is that the offense is being put on a coach (not the players) and the defense is also the coach (not the players). We can continue the "coach or player" argument all day.

    We have too many holes that need to be addressed on both sides of the ball. One draft and FA period will not get us back to being a force in the playoffs. I for one am tired of drafting CB's. I just hope this April we start drafting players that we all know! ;)
     
  23. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    Chargers went from 4-12 in 2003 to 12-4 to 2004, and did so by having a great draft, making trades for Oben and McCardell, and signing tier 2 FA's like Goff, Foley, and Godfrey.

    We are no where near as bad as we were in 2003, so to think we could turn it around then, but not now, is totally ridiculous.
     
  24. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    Ratings:
    +2,696
    Roster needs as I see them... Red = Starter needed. Orange = Depth needed. Green = Minor need. (yellow is too hard to read)

    Left Tackle - Need a starter, and a backup.
    Right Tackle - Need a starter. I think Haslam has earned his way onto the roster as the depth.
    Left Guard - Need a starter. Troutman, Dombrowski, and/or Green will probably make up the depth.
    Corner - Need a starter. Cason may have played his way back, Wright is probably going to start next year, Gilchrist had a solid finish, but I'm still not comfortable with this rotation.

    Running back - We need a solid backup for RM, if not two.
    Tight End - Need a blocking TE to replace McMichael.
    Inside LB - Someone to replace Takeo Spikes, could already be on the roster.

    Safety - Taylor's injury worries me so late in the season, depth would be nice here....Jammer?
    Outside LB - Phillips probably earned a new deal, Ingram and Johnson will be back, Barnes will probably be cheap to re-sign. But it'd be nice to have one more guy after English is cut, a security blanket.
    Right Guard - Vasquez is going to be re-signed, I'd be dumbstruck if he's not but again depth would help.

    I don't see any reason we can't clear the red and orange completely with just a couple free agents, and the first 2 days of the draft.
     
  25. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    Trying out new fonts? ;)

    Norv isn't a great HC, but neither is he a terrible one. You don't go to the playoffs multiple times and win playoff games if you are a terrible HC. To claim otherwise is just dumb.

    Is Coughlin a terrible HC because the Giants fell flat in critical games and missed the playoffs? Is Tomlin a terrible HC because the Steelers couldn't find a way to get into the playoffs? Might the fact that both teams had injuries, and had personnel changes from their Super Bowl years had some effect on their performance?

    If, we land the right GM and HC, fans could see a resurgence in a short time frame, but there's no way of knowing that will happen. It's just as likely that we continue to flounder in mediocrity. There's a lot of work to be done reshaping this roster.
     
  26. CoronaDoug

    CoronaDoug Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    7,539
    Ratings:
    +814
    I would agree only if they were not cleaning house. New coaches, new scheme.
     
  27. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    Please, if you insist on using a green font, at least pick one people can read, OK? ;)
     
  28. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    You actually bring up 2 coaches who have been in the playoffs nearly every single year they have been in the league, and both have rings, as examples of why Norv isn't that bad? Had Norv's team has ONE bad year, i could get your example. But his teams have under performed and been extremely mistake prone for 3 straight years. He has made terrible game time adjustments and has prepared his players poorly, and yet you continue to defend this man.

    He is absolutely a terrible head coach, to claim otherwise is totally ridiculous.

    I never once claimed they WILL turn it around in a short time, i claimed they can and to say they can't is just plain wrong.

    As for the font, it was a copy and paste of a previous post
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  29. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,482
    Ratings:
    +629
    And you think that is a bad thing? I see this as absolutely a good thing, and many teams in this league have made quick turn around with new coaching, see 9ers and Colts
     
  30. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,661
    Ratings:
    +3,452
    I purposely picked them BECAUSE they both have won Super Bowls. Since it's generally agreed that they are top level HCs, why did they both fail to take their teams to the playoffs this year? Answer that, if you can.

    A "terrible" coach like Norv orchestrated the first ever Chargers victory in Three Rivers Stadium....... something seemingly impossible for such a "terrible" HC. Why did a superior coach like Tomlin allow his team to get beaten at home and dominated by a "terrible" coach like Norv Turner?

    The Giants had games where they didn't even show up this year, and got destroyed in the process. Surely, a Super Bowl coach like Coughlin wouldn't allow his team to be so ill prepared and unmotivated. What in game adjustments did Coughlin make when his team lost 34-0 to the Falcons?

    I never said they couldn't turn around in short period of time, just that to expect that was unrealistic. It's much more likely that they continue to play at the same level until the roster is significantly upgraded.
     

Share This Page