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Norv: Don't expect the Chargers to make the playoffs next season

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Dec 31, 2012.

  1. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    1. Emmitt Smith / Cowboys (1991-93) — Smith led the league in rushing in each of the three seasons Turner was in Dallas, rushing for 1,563 yards in 1991, 1,713 in ’92 and 1,486 yards in ’93. He also led the league in attempts in ’91 with 365 and rushed for a league-high 18 touchdowns in ’92. Those three seasons kick-started a Hall of Fame career for Smith, the NFL’s all-time leading rusher.

    2. Terry Allen / Redskins (1995-96) — During Turner’s time as the Redskins’ head coach, Allen was his primary rusher from 1995-98, rushing for more than 1,300 yards in back-to-back seasons in ’95 and ’96. Those two campaigns marked Allen’s career-highs in rushes and yards and he led the league with 21 rushing touchdowns in ’96 and earned his one and only Pro Bowl berth.

    3. Stephen Davis / Redskins (1999-2000) — A three-time Pro Bowler, Davis made two of those with Turner as his head coach in Washington. In 1999, Davis led the league with 17 touchdowns and 100.4 rushing yards per game. The next season, Davis had career-highs in receptions and yards (33 for 313) and rushed for 1,318 yards.

    4. LaDainian Tomlinson / Chargers (2001, 2007-08) — In L.T.’s rookie season, Turner was his offensive coordinator, and Tomlinson exploded onto the NFL scene with 1,236 rushing yards and 10 rushing TDs. Tomlinson certainly didn’t need Turner to be productive, but when Turner returned as head coach in ’07, L.T. led the league with 1,474 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns. Tomlinson’s final 1,000-yard season came in ’08, when he rushed for 1,110 yards.

    5. Ricky Williams / Dolphins (2002-03)Williams had his best season and only Pro Bowl selection in Turner’s first season as Miami’s offensive coordinator. In ’02, Williams led the league with 383 carries, 1,853 rushing yards and gained 115.8 rushing yards per game. He also had 16 rushing TDs and 47 catches for 363 yards. The next season, Williams led the league in carries again with 392, tied for the seventh-most carries in a season all-time.

    6. LaMont Jordan / Raiders (2005) — Turner struggled to find success in his two seasons as the Raiders’ head coach, but he did help Jordan to his best NFL season. Jordan set career-high marks in carries (272), rushing yards (1,025), rushing touchdowns (nine), receptions (70) and receiving yards (563) in Turner’s final season with Oakland.

    7. Frank Gore / 49ers (2006) — In Turner’s one season with San Francisco, he helped launch Gore into the consistent, productive runner we know today. But that ’06 season, Gore’s second in the NFL, was his best season as a runner. He rushed for a career-high 1,695 yards on 312 carries, adding eight rushing TDs. Continuing the trend of backs being dual threats under Turner, Gore had a career-best 61 catches for 485 yards.

    8. Ryan Mathews / Chargers (2011) — Only twice in Turner’s 21 years as a head coach or offensive coordinator did he go back-to-back seasons without having a 1,000-yard rusher, including 2009-10. Mathews, a first-rounder in ’10, had high expectations, but injuries forced him out of four games. He had 1,091 yards rushing and 455 yards receiving in ’11, giving good reason for the high bar set for him in ’12. Mathews could miss two games because of the clavicle injury but is expected to carry a heavy workload upon his return.
     
  2. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Add Smith to the list...I thought he was a rook same year as Norv but nope! He improved under Norv
     
  3. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    McCoy love is as insane as Norv hate and directly related
     
  4. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    It's not dishonest, it's just one side of the coin. Unless by "dishonest" you mean "I don't like that because it doesn't jive with my claim that Norv made every running back better that he ever coached." But then, that would be a lot of nuance you're expecting me to read into one little word.
     
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  5. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Pointing out that some guys improved under Norv doesn't prove the claim that all guys improved under Norv.
     
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  6. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    In other words, the circumstances were different just like I said.
     
  7. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Do all guys improve under any coach? Really it's about making the team better, which is intrinsically linked with the GM. Hence the circular nature of this debate. It's pretty damn tough to disentangle coaching/gming over the transition years.
     
  8. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    In other words Norvs teams have generally played to their raw talent, and nothing more. He made the playoffs 1 time previous to his first 3 years here, that's 4 appearances in 16 seasons (one of which was an 8-8 team).

    Nothing about that inspires loyalty or patience in fans.
     
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  9. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't really negate what I've argued.

    If he can only work with raw talent and we have raw talent what grounds do fans have to argue that he can't win?

    But we're arguing about water under the bridge now. I don't think I'll take this much further.
     
  10. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Nope. Which is a good reason not to claim that it does happen.

    I totally agree with this. It's a both/and situation- not either/or.
     
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  11. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Look, if you aren't willing to play the game with the straw men we prop up,
    it's gonna take us more effort to demonize Norv.
    Effort is like golf scores, BBB: the lower the better. :)
     
  12. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not Norv was wrong is really unimportant.

    The start of this thread is just another case of stupid sports writers looking for controversy to drum up to stir hits.
     
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  13. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Norv is in Cleveland now right? So why do we still have posters who should be in Cleveland Brown forums?
     
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  14. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    We're not talking about Cleveland Browns history.
     
  15. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    In the loss against the Texans, our D was actually credited with 14 points on the board ;)

    It is very true that our D was the weak link of the team for the major part of the season, hence the old saying, "you are what your record is"... Your frustration and angst with could have, would have and should have; would probably leave you lamenting as to why we never won the Ring during Fouts era. I'm not being a smartarse, just highlighting the obvious that using the trajectory of games instead of the actual results will always end up in the could've, would've & the should'ves...
     
  16. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Don't read much into my observation. I had the conversation earlier that explained that it was nothing more than an observation.

    Stating that they "could have" won 14 games isn't quite the same as saying they're good enough to win 14 games.
     
  17. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    True that the Seahawks lost to the Cardinals, but I didn't watch that game. I am no fan of that Divi so I can't claim to be an enthusiast of its teams and their rivalries but I can draw parallels between NFCW & AFCW! Both Divis used to suck at one point with one dominant team, but seemingly not anymore! It appears that in both Divis any team with the exception of its bottom dweller is capable of beating any Divi opponent ;)
     
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  18. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    I wholeheartedly agree with the statement. No team ever is! During our own 14-2 season, we had many close games that went to our own favor and that is the beauty of this game!

    I was expecting a 5-11 team at the beginning of the season and then vacillated between 4-12 and 6-10, because I was concerned about the Rivers of the last 2 seasons. If we finish 9-7 and do not make the POs, of course I will be sad, but the sheer fact that this team beat my expectations, is not in a rebuilding mode and does not have to tinker with the QB position, leaves me very excited about the next 2-3 seasons :)
     
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  19. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    Norf would have been 4-12 with this roster!
     
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  20. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    That good?
     
  21. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    Wins: @ Jaguars @ Redskins (Snyder factor would have pumped up the normally inert Norfster) Giants, Raiders... Everything else an L...
     
  22. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    All guys DID improve under Norv unless you want to make an argument with LT-who was drafted with Turner as OC and excelled in Turner's offense years after. Your cruising for one stat (ypc) that might look bad on its own, lumping Raiders backs together with Jordan to eliminate what he did for ypc and then skipping guys altogether barely ended up looking bad at all and was extremely dishonest.
     
  23. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Norv would have lost 18 games with this roster!

    Screen Shot 2013-12-28 at 11.21.36 PM.png
     
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  24. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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  25. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    Correct. Over 2013 (4-12) and 1/2 of 2014 (2-6)
     
  26. Blitzy

    Blitzy Rainbow Bolt

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    Which one of you three Lovelies will be introducing the Norfster at the podium for his HOF bust presentation? Hmmm?! Alas the NFL doesn't have an equivalent to the Razzies, or else, you'd be in business with your Norf lovefest ;)
     
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  27. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Well Norv has Troy Aikman already. He didn't select Jimmy!
     
  28. Jesse Kemp

    Jesse Kemp BoltTalker

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    Do your homework. Oakland, in 2006, was running by a true committee. I could have split it up between Jordan and Fargas, and one would have gotten worse while the other would have gotten better. Still proves my point that not everyone was better off under Norv Turner coaching.

    It's bad form to dismiss information as dishonest simply because it doesn't agree with something you said. I chose YPC because I actually felt it would be the most honest. Volume stats like yardage and touchdowns can be more indicative of opportunity than quality of performance.

    You clearly still don't understand my point. The first thing I said was that some guys had their best years under Turner. I acknowledged that. So I only listed the cases where guys improved after him or were better before him because I was only trying to show that those situations existed along with the good (which my post took for granted). I am not the one making universal statements here. No need for me to list every single back because I'm not trying to claim that he had the same impact on all of them, as you are.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  29. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it's fair to speculate what Norv would have done with this roster.

    Norv is not Mike McCoy. They might have made different roster moves if Norv was still here. Whether or not they would have been better or worse than the ones they did make is obviously an unknown, but the point is I doubt he'd be working with the same exact roster we have this year had they retained him.
     
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  30. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Of course it's not fair, but it's funny to see people do it.:)

    I can tell you one thing, I'm fairly certain we'd have lost every single game Dunlap either missed or left early.
     

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