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Norv Turner: Why He Shouldn't Remain Head Coach of the San Diego Chargers

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by NORV4LIFE, Jun 3, 2011.

  1. NORV4LIFE

    NORV4LIFE NO MORE NORV!!!!!

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    Basically what anyone with a brain has been saying forever...

     
  2. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Are you quoting yourself? ;)
     
  3. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. NORV4LIFE

    NORV4LIFE NO MORE NORV!!!!!

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    i'm not one cool guy. Why do u keep saying that.
     
  5. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    I believe that may be a reference to the fact that you're a "one issue" poster....... #justaguess ;)
     
  6. LV Bolt Fan

    LV Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    Someone bring back B4L.
     
  7. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Because the mods here PROVED that you were. You deny being "BLOUNT PUNCH" too? That was also proven.
     
  8. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    No. He's got more multi's than Sybil had personalities. One of the mods posted the proof here and yet the little biatch denys it.
     
  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    So to clarify, because he has won 21 more games than he lost in four seasons he should be fired?
     
  10. ThunderHorse17

    ThunderHorse17 Lone Wolf

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    So wait what im hearing is its cool to have multiple personalities? I missed this earth shaking proof, but would explain the shortage of 1foolguy comments on my forum.
     
  11. SDRaiderH8er

    SDRaiderH8er Well-Known Member

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    so lets fire Norv right now, That way we can start off the season with nothing in place.
     
  12. Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan

    Carlsbad_Bolt_Fan Well-Known Member

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    No...he uses a multi named "1 Cool Guy 13x Troll"as well as "Blount Punch". The other "Cool Guy" is a different person. In_a_days posted proof of that.
     
  13. HollywoodLeo

    HollywoodLeo Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who pretends 2009 was a downgrade from 8-8 the year before is a damn fool.
     
  14. Joy Division

    Joy Division Slightly-known Member

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    44 wins
    26 losses in 4 seasons
    =18 more wins than losses.
    My math isn't the best so I could be wrong.
    But yeah, I get the point..he has over a whole season
    of wins over losses...
    kind of a pattern actually...13 wins, 9 wins, 13 wins, 9 wins...so assuming the pattern holds...
    13 wins in 2011!
     
  15. guerro619

    guerro619 Well-Known Member

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    Another Marty apologist........... Norv has done great with the offense. He's helped Rivers to be one of the premier QB's in the NFL. OK, so who would replace Norv???
     
  16. AnteaterCharger

    AnteaterCharger Calibrating Bolttalk, Podcast by Podcast Staff Member Super Moderator Podcaster

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    He's on the hot seat, one more bad year he's likely gone
     
  17. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    Same should go for AJ since
    1. He hired Norv
    and
    2. It's time for the 2009 draft to show some promise
    and
    3. The 2011 draft Top 5 have to ******* be damn good on ST to justify the 'draft for ST' strategy
     
  18. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    1. Actually Dean did. AJ likely had some say and had to sign off on it, but very rarely do you see the general manager of a team be the guy making coaching hires and fires. That's the owner's part and for those owners that realize they lack (or simply don't want to put forward the effort to have) the football acumen to evaluate quality non-player personnel are the ones that hire these "football czars" or whatever title they opt to give them (i.e. Randy Lerner with Mike Holmgren in Cleveland currently, and Wayne Huizenga with Bill Parcells in Miami previously). Because he's stood by Norv for so long when he could have thrown him under the bus (though again, there's not as much "cause" as folks want to be able to point to... unless folks are considering us the equivalent the 1990's Tampa Bay Bucs where Dungy couldn't get them over the hump in the playoffs for years). Still, the way the organization has been faithful to the Butler/Smith front office regime, AJ would like be given the opportunity to "retire" as opposed to being outright canned, though even that would take an epic collapse.

    2. True, though that class has already produced two starters (granted one of them is no longer on the roster, though to his credit he earned and held that spot until losing it due to dumbass personal decisions) which is already effectively at or above the mean for most draft classes, particularly one as weak as the 2009 class was historically. Even with a free agent signing, it will have produced another starter come Day 1 this year, barring a monumental failing by English or another injury on his part. How effective those guys can be as starters remains to be seen. Vasquez has been average (far from great, but also far from terrible) when healthy; though honestly he and Clary are simply a bad pairing - the weaknesses of one only feed the weaknesses of the other and vice versa.

    3. It wasn't a 'draft purely for ST' strategy; it was an area that was emphasized and an underlying mantra, but if anything this was a 'roleplayer' draft, which everyone's getting bent out of shape because they think that all these "future stars" were left on the board. I'm not saying that we didn't make reaches on guys like Mouton, but it's getting annoying how spoiled some folks are becoming with regard to the draft. For those folks it seems if we don't draft pro bowlers with every other pick then the draft is a failure (and I won't even go into how ludicrous using the PB as an assessment of a player's value in this day and age is). How many of those teams that have drafted the "steals of the draft" have won championships of late? And even in the limited cases, how many of those guys are viewed as "steals" far more because they are playing and contributing on a team that won a title as opposed to off the quality their actual play has merited?
     
  19. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    1. AJ wanted Norv, and Dean signed off on it. It may be technically correct to say that Dean hired Norv, but AJ was fully in favor of it.

    2. Counting players you got rid of as starters is pretty lame..... sorry. If they aren't starting for you, then what's the point?

    3. Clay Matthews...... 'nuff said. ;)
     
  20. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    How is counting players who are no longer starting for you not valid? Did Ellison have a past drug history or anything that pointed to him being a threat to end up in possession of more pharmaceuticals than the corner Walgreens? Did he not progress into and succeed in a starter's role as a rookie? That still speaks to AJ and the scouting staff's ability to spot talent capable of starting for this team.

    Holding Clay Matthews against AJ is like holding Troy Polamalu against Butler. Did he miss on the chance to select a very talented (even if he is overhyped... sorry, but Clay really is. As a complete LB he's horribly overhyped, as a pure pass-rusher he's not) prospect at a need position? Yes, but what GM hasn't? Bill Belichick passed on Matthews even though they had (and still have) need at the OLB position at the time. Ozzie Newsome (one of the most heralded GM's in the league currently) passed on him (twice!) in a year where he went on to draft a pass-rusher in the very next round. Clay Matthews aside, one player does not give quality depth to a draft class, and the '09 class is notorious for not having legitimate depth. More draftees from the '09 class are on their 2nd and 3rd (or more) teams already at this point than any other with respect to the same period of time since the draft (3 years later).

    And let's be perfectly straight here, I'm not trying to completely discard AJ having made a push for Norv, but it wasn't as if he was out there championing him from the day that Marty was fired. The only reason why AJ really ever jumped on Norv's bandwagon was because he was an easier sell and Norv was willing to bring in the guy AJ was originally championing as "his guy" who was Fat Teddy. Rex Ryan wanted nothing to do with Cottrell (and for good reason), in no small part because of the history between the Ryans and the Phillips' or anyone associated with the Phillips' (which Cottrell was). Singletary, as we saw in San Francisco, wouldn't know a good assistant choice if it bit him in the ***, but he also wasn't going to be strong-armed into anything. I'm not trying to defend AJ as some world class coaching personnel evaluator; but in that same respect, I contend that the Spanos' (and probably Butler did as well) recognized that which was why he wasn't given direct-hire responsibility.
     
  21. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Pithy, you are not. ;)

    Ellison didn't make it as a Charger, period. The job of the GM is to do thorough background checks of the players he drafts. Ellison's knee problems were well known, even if his drug abuse may not have been. AJ took a risk in taking "damaged goods", and payed the price. How is that not a knock on him?

    I wasn't holding Clay Matthews against AJ Smith. You said, "How many of those teams that have drafted the 'steals of the draft' have won championships of late?"........ answer, the Packers. The "steal of the draft" was Clay Matthews.

    You're assuming that AJ Smith took Norv because he as an "easier sell"...... I don't see it that way. AJ wanted Norv, because he knew he'd have the ability to make Rivers into a true franchise QB and take the offense to a higher level. He was less concerned about the defense at that time. He also knew from their past association that Norv was a guy he could work well with. Rex Ryan didn't have the resume or personality to mesh well with AJ, and he knew it.

    Cotrell was the DC because the HC hiring was so late in the game. AJ did the best with what he could, given the late firing of Marty.
     
  22. FCBolt

    FCBolt Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to cite an average for a draft, don't just cite 'how many players start ever' cause that adds way too much weight to guys like Ellison.

    What you're looking for is "average games started for the team that drafted them over the course of their career + what you got for trading the guy or in compensatory". THAT's value for drafting. Not whether they started one season or not.

    Also, you're damned right we're expecting big things out of each draft. The stranglehold put on medium-big $$ FA pickups means the Bolts HAVE to hit it big in the draft.

    Finally, I don't buy the "don't blame AJ, blame Dean" stuff. Sure, Dean signs off on AJs decisions, but both he and AJ have indicated that AJ calls the shots, and that also they agree on a lot of what AJ does. This is AJs team. AJ doesn't try to pass that buck, so neither should his fans.
     
  23. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    If Norv has trouble this year with a decent veteran club, I'd imagine he's gone and should be. Although I'm sure some folks will claim it's the fault of the new defensive and ST coordinators to allow him to skate for one more year. It has to be the big show or the door and a Lombardi would more than likely get him an extension.
     
  24. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Out of curiosity? Why does everyone say that our offense improved under Norv?

    I will take out his 1st year, which on a yardage level, was even worse than 2003 which lead to us having the #1 pick.

    So if you compare his last 3 years, to the 3 years prior to him coming here, he is averaging 15 yards more a game but about half point a game worse (Not a big deal). So overall, the offense has not statistically gotten better, it is roughly the same as prior to his arrival.

    So I just don't get why so many people say that the offense is better under Norv, when in fact it is not
     
  25. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    Keep Norv, fire the owners.
     
  26. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    Where did you get your stats?

    When LT was in his prime, the offense was more ball control, but still very effective. The Chargers still gained a lot of yardage and scored points. It didn't have the same big play ability that it has now though. I think you'd agree that the long ball has developed greatly under Norv. The Chargers now have the ability to strike quickly if needed.

    If you look at Norv's 4 years here running the offense, he's averaged 355 yards per game. That's a slight increase over the 345 yards average in the last 4 years of Marty's tenure.

    In scoring, Norv's offense averaged 436.5 points per game, which is better than Marty's prior 4 year average of 417.25.

    I only included the regular season stats, since the post season games played isn't equal.

    You also have to consider that LT's decline happened during Norv's tenure...... specifically 2008 and 2009. In Norv's first year, LT followed up his record 2006 season with a very good 1,474 yard season. But in 2008, he dropped to 1,110 yards, and finally in 2009 he only managed 730 yards. That obviously had an impact on the effectiveness of Norv's offense. We became more reliant on the passing game as a necessity. Norv would prefer a more balanced offense, but you have to work with what you are given, and LT didn't have much to give.
     
  27. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Yds/gm pts/gm Yds/gm pts/gm
    2010 395.6 27.6 2006 347.9 26.1
    2009 360.1 28.4 2005 365 30.8
    2008 349 27.4 2004 346.4 27.9



    Average Yards 368.23 Points 27.8 Yards 353.1 points 28.26666667

    These numbers are directly from ESPN. As I stated, I used 3 years since the 4th year by both coaches were terrible, basically gave Norv a pass in 2007 and Marty/Cam a pass in 2003
     
  28. Blue Bolt

    Blue Bolt Persona Non Grata

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    So, by throwing out 2007, you leave LT's two worst seasons........ nice ;)

    LT's rushing (under Marty)...... 2004 - 1,335 yards, 2005 - 1,462 yards, 2006 - 1,815 yards.

    LT's rushing (under Norv)...... 2008 - 1,110 yards, and 2009 - 730 yards.

    You don't think that LT's decline might have something to do with Norv's offensive numbers?
     
  29. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Yeah, I threw out 07 because it was the worst offensive team we have had since the early 2000's. So Norv got a pass since it was his 1st year.

    2007 (Norv's 1st year)- 3005 yards
    2003 (The year that lead to us having the #1 pick)- 3021 yards

    I think LT effected Norv's numbers, and I also think that Norv had a negative impact on LT's numbers.

    Either way, the facts prove that the offense did not improve under Norv and it is right around the same as where it was with Cam calling the plays. The only difference is, we throw a lot more now where we use to run a lot more before he got here
     
  30. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Vastly different offenses. Also DB your stats do not shed light on the number of receivers that Philip used last season and STILL maintained a top performance level. In short, you are not seeing the bleachers for the seats.

    But you dont like Norv, so I doubt if you even care, look at things how ever you will...
     

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