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Official Game Day Thread: Broncos @ Chargers - 11/10

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Blue Bolt, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Who belongs in lunatic fringes?
     
  2. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Yes, I understand that as well. Just saying, in 1994 Turner was a rookie head coach who, most likely made mistakes to cost his team. McCoy has made 2 so far this year. Although the play calls are made by Whisenhunt and not McCoy but that's a different story.

    But also, I looked at Norv Turner's body of work from 2007-2012, and the Chargers are better off firing him and hiring McCoy. The team's records regressed as well as their play on the field. It was the same old, same old. Norv wouldn't have his teams ready to play, we'd start the season off slow, we'd lose leads at halftime, inconsistencies week in week out, etc.

    When he inherited this roster in 2007, it had 11 pro bowlers from the year past. 11. Listen, Norv did wonders at times, but he had the NFL's most talented roster and did nothing with it. Nothing to show except 2 AFC Championship loses.
     
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  3. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    Anyone who feels Norv, after his disastrous final season didn't deserve to be fired I would consider them in an extreme minority. Anyone who expects you to go through 99 game tapes to convince them about anything, not just Norv...but anything. Just a couple examples.
     
  4. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    Right! Pay attention....you said you didn't call anyone a lunatic

    I remember Marty running onto the field and drawing a 15 yard penalty...you can't just ignore burden and say schit happened with Norv. Prove it. Ad populum is nothing to brag about until you successfully manage to block everyone telling you how dumb you are.
     
  5. Lance19

    Lance19 BoltTalker

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    Well, again, I'm not really up for beating this dead horse much longer, but no one is seriously
    going to argue that the Chargers had anywhere near the roster talent in 2012 that they had in 2007.
    I guess there might actually be people out there that believe that Norv was 32-16 in his first 3 seasons
    and 24-24 in his final 3 seasons because he mysteriously forgot how to coach…instead of the much
    more obvious, and easy to document, reason that he had a lot less talent.

    The best argument for replacing Turner isn't that McCoy will get better results (so far he hasn't),
    but just that some jolt was needed to shake things up. I'm okay with that…even though it was pretty
    obvious that Turner was a scapegoat, sometimes a breath of fresh air can be helpful.

    But McCoy is losing me fast: as I've said before, overall, I think he's done a decent job
    EXCEPT for two colossally HUGE mistakes (the likes of which few coaches survive many…
    and no one can't point to similar Norv disasters in 99 games)
    …not only has coaching directly
    lost two games
    this team had won, McCoy insists he hasn't learned anything from either screw-up.
    If that's true, and we see more wins coached into losses, the McCoy experiment will be brief.
    You can only ride the "He's not Norv!" pony so far. :p He's blowing through his honeymoon really fast.

    It doesn't matter how well you've coached in practice and the first 55 minutes of the game…if you continue to demonstrate catastrophic, game-losing judgement in the last 5 minutes…and don't fix it quickly…you'll be an ex-HC soon.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
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  6. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    I like this and to add a bit to actual real reasons why Norv should have been fired, he let the Hester experiment go far too long while Tolbert rotted...amazingly while this was happening, he took the team to 13-3. In that Jets playoff game, he had the disgruntled LT starting while Tolbert rode the bench and STILL lost to 3 missed field goals. It's like he allowed his roster and authority to be fuched with by both GM and owner and still did quite well. But that kind of obedient silence ends up in worse and worse rosters and that's what happened. Still a brilliant coach though.

    (but you can't get fired for staying quiet on dumb management decisions until you ARE thrown under the bus)
     
  7. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    1. I did not say that, maybe you need to pay attention.

    2. Who cares about Marty? When did Marty enter this conversation? And your telling me to pay attention?

    3. Excuse me what do I have to prove after the man was fired? The way I see it me and SC92 have the high ground in this argument, why would we waste our time actually going through old games to convince a handful of people (or less) here? Hahaha not gonna happen, but if you guys would like to convince us I'm all ears. So far all I have is a win % stat drenched in flawed logic, and a convenient disregard of the 2 main original foundation reasons why Norv was hired in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2013
  8. matilack

    matilack #therealagent47

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    The most damning part for me is that we hired him for Rivers, and the sake of his "offensive genius" and yet The offense melted down to 2nd worst in the entire league and Rivers regressed dramatically.

    The missed FGs and bad defense over the years I can overlook a lot of that as not his fault. But refusing to change the offensive scheme, blaming the players at every post game conference....too much for me. It truly takes monumental arrogance to not alter your beloved scheme when you lose your LT, and Clary is your RT. The stats won't show bad coaching decisions...but Norv deserves to take credit for more than a couple handfuls of Rivers sacks and INTs by setting him up for failure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  9. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    LOL.... This is just a retred of the "OMG THEY FIRED MARTY!" arguments. What difference does it make if the team is better off in the eyes of a fan or not? HE WAS REVEALED OF HIS DUTIES TO THE TEAM! Move on. Any argument is simply OPINION. You have yours, others have theirs, I have mine.

    SS Turner sailed, hit an ice burg and sunk in Cleveland.

    P.S. Notice how I used caps in odd places like some others are want to? That's right, hit like or agree right down there...
     
  10. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Thought this might be fitting to the current topic at hand.
     
  11. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    SS Turner may hit an iceberg in Lake Erie... but Conc's dingy keeps taking on more and more weight with those "ice burgs".

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Wait a minute. In the course of reading your normal anti-Norv drivel... Jeromey Clary was mentioned. Are the Clary haters and the Norv haters the same people? Do you get two for one bonus deal on membership? This is like buy your hood get your wooden cross free!
     
  13. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    does that mean the gasoline and matches are extra? Maybe SCOTUS should rule if we've sufficiently moved beyond gerrymandering the Norv districts.
     
  14. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Scotus or Scrotus?
     
  15. Riff Raff

    Riff Raff BoltTalker

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    Scrotus if you reserve the discussion to Scalia and Thomas.
     
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  16. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    Well I agree I'm not trying to beat a dead horse either, but your clearly not getting the point.

    Who inherits a roster with 11 pro bowlers? Nobody. What did he do with it? Nothing. Bottom line. Reason why his first 3 seasons here were inflated to a 32-16 record.

    I don't know how McCoy hasn't proven to you to that he has improvement from Norv. This time last year Rivers was sacked 22 times with 16 turnovers compared to being sacked 16 times this year and turning the ball over 7 times. We've had 5 different LT's, 3 different LG and RG's, and 2 different RT's and has lost his top 2 WR's (since week 2) and yet Rivers is statistically a top 5 QB in the league right now. He hasn't been this good since 2010.

    When did he start losing players? 2010. When he stopped featuring LT in the offense. He had a dominant OL until 2011 when it started decimating rapidly. But as a coach, its also your job as a coach to find capable replacements for those guys you've lost, and adapt to your teams strengths.
     
  17. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    "Nothing"? First year with a first place schedule he won two playoff games with injured stars. That was an improvement over the previous year (which benefited from a 3rd place schedule). The next year he won another playoff game (again with injured stars). The next year he posted a 13-3 and lost to the Jets because of 3 missed field goals.

    The talent and depth was worsening every year starting after '06 (THAT was the most loaded team in the NFL-- not the 07 team and certainly not the '08 and '09 teams). You not liking his accomplishments doesn't mean they were nothing.
     
  18. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    In 'o7-'08 we had the leagues 17th ranked strength of schedule. We beat a bad Titans team in the 1st round, and we beat a very good Indy team in the 2nd round, yes with injured players at key positions. I credit Norv for keeping it close in Foxboro against an undefeated Patriots team and with LT and Rivers having had knee injuries in which limited their play.

    The following year, yes we made the playoffs at 8-8. Who was injured heading into the Indy game in '08-'09? And yes he lost to a Jets team with a rookie QB and rookie RB that demolished us. He didn't get his team ready to play and you could just see it. Rex Ryan clearly out coached Norv Turner. We missed 3 FG's, but why? We failed to get a first down the WHOLE 3rd quarter with the leagues top ranked offense.

    Just because LT broke the rushing TD record in 'o6 doesn't mean that team was "loaded". Marty relied heavily on LT that season with Rivers entering as the starter at QB for his first season. In '07 we had a backfield of LT, Turner, and Sproles with Lorenzo Neal clearing paths. Also, Gates in his prime, a loaded OL and DL, Phillips and Merriman off the edge, and a very good DB unit. That team to me, was better than the '06 team.

    Norv Turner is the past, people need to stop bringing the past up with little comments here and there. If you love Norv so much, be a Cleveland Browns fan, please. I'm done talking about him now.
     
  19. The LBC

    The LBC I'm a Real Prick

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    Well... if we're being honest. Who inherits a roster with 11 pro bowlers? Next to no one. Andy Reid (this is not necessarily to sing the praises of Reid aside from the fact that he got a previously clueless DC to finally realize that being aggressive and blitzing is a good thing) inherited a team that had 6 pro bowlers (and the worst record in the league that same year) and his team has currently not lost a game yet this season.
     
  20. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    This is considered a personal attack against another member and won't be tolerated. No need to name call by any means. 1st warning.
     
  21. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

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    Good to see the sanitation staff speeding to the scene of the crime.
     
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  22. SayOw

    SayOw BoltTalker

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    December 26, 2010 vs Cincinnatti - Norv made several decisions before the game was even played that many could consider a reason as to why the team lost this game and thus failed to make the playoffs.

    That is the first game that fits your description that comes to my mind...I'm sure it's not the only one either...

    I'm not sold on McCoy yet...but I wasn't sad to see Norv leave...
     
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  23. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Would you please stop being disrespectful to every moderator/Staff member here. It is childish and frankly you seem to be better than that.
     
  24. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    So not "nothing" then

    LT went out in the second quarter and didn't return. But Norv won with a scat back.
    Nate missed field goals because the Chargers failed to get first downs?

    I didn't say that the team was loaded because LT broke a record, not sure why you would think that and then explain why. every player you mentioned from the 07 team was also on the 06 team (did you watch the Chargers back then?) but the secondary was actually worse with a very shaky Weddle in his starting year. Though Castillo missed the same number of games in 07 as he did in 06, he was twice as good in 06 and would never be the same again. More can be said of how much better Merriman was in 06 than he was in 07. The 07 team was one of the best in Chargers history but not as good as 06

    [/QUOTE]

    Norv haters have been doing this all over the Chargers sites lately. I don't even think it's an organized effort but rather a symptom of the cognitive dissonance you are experiencing. You wish everyone would stop bringing up facts with your pleas for moving on but what you are also demanding is that your poor understanding of the past be celebrated in how you see the present. You don't have to mention his name to actually be talking about him and the past. This is extremely unenlightened thinking and on bigger matters, has lead to very dangerous consequences in the world.
     
  25. LT-Express

    LT-Express Bolttalk.com Janitor since 06' Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yep. Good to see the folks that dont have anything else to do besides get on BT and stir up crap. My apologies for having a life outside of babysitting grown folks. I'll make sure I hurry up next time.
     
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  26. Sydalish

    Sydalish Addicted to Sports

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    Good luck with that Conc :roflmao:
     
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  27. SuperCharger92

    SuperCharger92 BoltTalker

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    It didn't decide an outcome, but I remember when we played New England in '10 I believe at home, in which we were up 3-0 in the 1st quarter and we off side kicked it? Patriots had extremely good field position and score on the drive.

    We ended up losing the game by 3.
     
  28. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    I figured Sandy was worth a shot.
     
  29. Burlington Bolt Brother

    Burlington Bolt Brother BoltTalker

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    I don't recall what happened before the game but hard to top losing a roster spot
     
  30. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    They will never see your points. They are not invested in this to see your points, they only want to argue their opinions as if they are facts, and in general argue for the sake of arguing... It is the same thing some of them did back in the Flutopian wars of old. Your call but if you are expecting a dialogue where ideas can be exchanged this is not it.
     

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