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"One of these teams is not like the others..." and other myths

Discussion in 'Chargers Fan Forum' started by Johnny Lightning, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    by jkvandal on Jul 28, 2010

    I've read in many places fans complaining that the Chargers are the only team that can't sign their RFA's, or that other teams are able to offer long term contracts, the Chargers should be able to as well.

    This post will show you the way around the RFA dilemma here in San Diego. First, I will show you that the Chargers aren't the only ones with some of their RFA's holding out. Second, I will show you that the signing of the RFA tender offer is no longer in the Chargers court. Third, I will show you after the jump what our RFA's have done wrong in the grand scheme of things if they REALLY want to have a long term deal here in San Diego.

    The Chargers aren't the only team without RFA's signed:
    -Up until yesterday Green Bay DB Atari Bigby hadn't signed.
    -RB Ronnie Brown has not signed his RFA tender in Miami.
    -New England OG Logan Mankins hasn't signed his tender and is threatening to hold out.
    -Buccaneers LT Donald Penn has not signed his tender and isn't expected to report to camp.
    -Washington CB Carlos Rogers has yet to sign his tender
    That makes at least 5, I'm sure there are more, that was just a cursory glance at a Free Agency list. All of the above are also notable players that fill key roles in their teams.

    However, you are right in assuming that the majority of teams have their RFA's signed under their tenders...because the players signed their tender. There are two steps to the tender offer:
    Step 1) The team notifies the league and the player of which type of tender they are placing on the player
    Step 2) The player can sign that tender

    Many other teams offered the tender, and immediately or eventually the player agreed to the tender and signed it. In San Diego, the team offered the tender, the players rejected it. There is no difference (publicly at least) with the way in which the tender was offered in San Diego versus these other organizations whose players signed.
    An interesting question would be, how many of the players that signed the RFA tag on other teams were then given a new contract?
    Well, let's go down the scout.com Free Agency ranking list and see the status of the top 20 RFA’s:

    Vincent Jackson – Did not sign RFA tag, has not received a new deal.
    Miles Austin – Signed RFA tag with the Cowboys, has not signed a new deal.
    Brandon Marshall – Signed RFA tag with the Broncos, which enabled him to be traded to Miami, where he got a big deal.
    Owen Daniels – Signed RFA tag with Houston, has not received a new deal.
    Elvis Dumervil – Signed RFA tag with Broncos, received a contract extension.
    Demeco Ryans – Signed RFA tag with Houston, received a contract extension.
    Pierre Thomas – Signed RFA tag with New Orleans, has not received a new deal.
    Jammal Brown – Signed RFA tag with New Orleans, was then traded to Washington, no new deal.
    Willie ColonSigned RFA tag with Pittsburgh, will be sitting out all season with an Achilles injury.
    Jahri Evans – Signed RFA tag with New Orleans, then signed a new deal.
    Logan Mankins – Did not sign RFA tag, has not received new deal.
    Antoine Bethea – Signed RFA tag with Indy, then got a new deal.
    Barrett Ruud – Signed RFA tag with Tampa Bay, has not received a new deal.
    LeRon McClain – Signed RFA tag with Baltimore, has not received a new deal.
    Braylon Edwards – Signed RFA tag with New York, has not received a new deal.
    Shawne Merriman – Did not sign RFA tag, has not received a new deal.
    Leon Washington – Signed RFA tag with New York, was traded to Seattle and has not received a new deal.
    Malcom Floyd – Signed RFA tag with San Diego, has not received a new deal.
    Harvey Dahl – Signed RFA tag with Atlanta, has not received a new deal.
    Deuce Lutui – Signed RFA tag with Arizona, has not received a new deal.

    That’s just the first page, and you can see where the trend goes the lower you get on that list. 5 of those 20 RFA’s received a new deal, 15 did not. 3 of those 20 did not sign their tender (4 if you include MM), and none of those received a new deal.
    I will say that again, 0% of those RFA’s that refused their tender received new deals.
    Only 25% of those that signed their RFA tender actually received new deals, and I’m fairly certain that number would drop if I kept going down the list. Based off of these numbers, I feel that I can safely say that not only are the Chargers in the majority within the league with regards to dealing with RFA’s, but very few teams are signing their RFA’s to new deals.

    I can already hear the argument: “but VJ and MM deserve to get paid more than the tender offer.”
    Well, I’ll counter with these statements:
    - A Pro-Bowl WR with better stats than Jackson last season (81 rec, / 1,320 yds / 11 TDs) seemed to think the RFA tender was pretty fair. He is named Miles Austin.
    - None of the OT’s on the RFA list above have received new deals, yet they seemed to think the tender was fair enough.
    -One wide receiver, one Safety, one Offensive Guard, and two Linebackers received new deals: not many glamour positions.

    So looking back at these facts, which argument below do they tend to support?
    A) The Chargers are the only team unable to sign RFA’s
    B) The Chargers are in line with the way that the majority of the teams are handling RFA’s

    The fault of the Chargers RFA’s being unsigned lies on the shoulders of those that normally have pads on them: the players. The majority of the league isn’t having the same issues as the Chargers because their players accepted the offers. Why are the Chargers players acting different than other players throughout the league? I can’t answer that one, maybe they are getting back advice from their agent or maybe they aren’t happy with AJ Smith. I can tell you there are several other names on the list above that aren’t happy with their contractual situation, but guess what? They realized that they didn’t have the leverage and that they would never recoup the money if they refused the tender offer.
     
  2. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The biggest issue I have with that is that nearly all the players who signed their tender and who received a new deal, were already working on their new deal when they signed their tender.

    The Chargers have refused to even discuss a deal with our guys, which is a big reason they didn't sign. If they had some form of a gesture of good will, they may have signed (no one really knows), but the fact remains, the players who got new deals, were already working on them when they signed their tender
     
  3. bigmike.x.09

    bigmike.x.09 Well-Known Member

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    :yawn: we're in camp already right?
     
  4. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    Jackson and McNeill refused 3.5 plus million dollars to play, how is that the teams fault?:icon_shrug::icon_huh: I wonder if they're at home holding their breath and kicking their feet. I sure as hell don't feel sorry for those loser's, stay at home and pout.
     
  5. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Because unlike nearly every other team, the team blatantly refused to even discuss a long term contract, which the players wanted.

    I am in no way saying it is all the teams fault, I am saying it is 50/50. The team is far from innocent, and the same thing goes for the players
     
  6. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    I don't give a rat's *** what the Charger's owners and management did. I can't feel sorry for an overpaid ball player whining about how much money he isn't making. If they don't like the pay offered, McDonald's is hiring.
     
  7. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The amount of money we are talking about is completely irrelevant, it is all about pay compared to similar people in the same profession. It is billionaires arguing about money with Millionaires. You nor I have any idea what it is like. But I can put it in perspective and say that if another company was paying 3x as much for someone who doest he same job as me, and just as good, I wouldn't be happy with accepting 1/3 the money either.

    The difference is, you and I work where we can quite and just take a job at another company if the other company pays more. NFL players can't. They are stuck working for one team whether they are happy or not. The only thing they can do is hold out and hope for more money, which is what they are doing, and if I was in their shoes I would do the same exact thing
     
  8. Concudan

    Concudan Caffeinated Commando

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    Really? Nearly every other team is handing out long term deals? That is not what I have seen. Compared to years past the long term deals are WAY down.

    The good chance of a lockout, and the questions about CBAs are preventing a lot of long term deals.

    If you choose to spin that to something stating the teams refuse to talk long term deals (the Gates deal shoots that concept down), that is your business. I have to disagree with your thesis however...
     
  9. HEXEDBOLT

    HEXEDBOLT Don't like it, lump it!!!

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    The NFL is the company and no one is forcing them to play football nor did they have to choose that profession. Like I said in another thread, take your degree if they received on and go join the job market.

    By the way, I owned a business and if an employee wasn't making me money they were gone. If they were making money but not up the their potential that's how they were paid. If they were making money and cranking out the work, they were taken care of. Work is work, do it the best you can and be happy, you get taken care of. Whine and moan and you get replaced. It's that simple.
     
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  10. Kwak

    Kwak ....

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    Did you just pull that factoid off the hacksaw news feed?
     
  11. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Read what I said again. I said the guys who signed long term deals, signed their tender while they were already in the process of working on a new deal. I didn't say all were getting new deals. At least 2-3 of the guys who did get deals, there were reports on them that said they wouldn't have signed their tenders had their teams not been willing to work on a new deal, and they only signed them because they were actively working on a deal to replace the tender
     
  12. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    News flash ..... maybe the team doesn't WANT these guys long-term.

    VJ is one drunken joy ride away from a year suspension. McNeill's play has been slowly but steadily declining.

    We axed LT, Cro, & Jamal. Ever think that this is another part of a locker room purge?
     
  13. reddenedbeard

    reddenedbeard Well-Known Member

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    I think you have made a big assumption that they "refused" to talk long term deal .. The only thing the Chargers have refused to do is talk about contract negotiations through the press.
     
  14. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    Then the players are doing what they feel is best for them. If the team doesn't want them, why should they want to be on the team?

    By the way, I wouldn't want them to re-sign VJ either. But McNeil is totally ridiculous
     
  15. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    I don't assume anything. AJ has said they are not going to discuss long term deals while the CBA issues loom.
     
  16. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    Smith has cited uncertainty over the labor situation as one reason for the team not doing long-term deals.

    He has also alluded to the numerous players the team has to sign in the next year as their contracts are set to expire.


    “We never said we were going stop signing players until everything was resolved on the labor front,” Smith said yesterday. “We said we have slowed down and would proceed cautiously and give much thought to what we would do and when. We have many decisions to make in the year ahead.
     
  17. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    http://content.usatoday.com/communi...contract-extensions-to-be-on-hold-right-now/1

    "Our position now with the labor unrest is we're going to shut it down and take it slow. We're on hold right now. We're not the lone ranger, but we're on hold."
     
  18. Johnny Lightning

    Johnny Lightning Go Bolts

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    Read what you just posted I highlighted for you in red...


    Smith has cited uncertainty over the labor situation as one reason for the team not doing long-term deals. He has also alluded to the numerous players the team has to sign in the next year as their contracts are set to expire.


    We never said we were going stop signing players until everything was resolved on the labor front,” Smith said yesterday. “We said we have slowed down and would proceed cautiously and give much thought to what we would do and when. We have many decisions to make in the year ahead, but at this time we just felt that Antonio was our top priority.


    We hoped he would accept our contract offer and had great confidence he would.


    Gates was the Chargers’ top priority for some time, and McNeill has long been right behind him in line.



    McNeill’s refusing the Chargers’ one-year tender of $3.268 million and preparing to sit out into the season is complicating that agenda but likely will not preclude a deal getting done.


    Said Smith:”We will now take a step back and continue to assess our team.”



    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jul/28/gates-signs-extension/



    AJ is a like a poker player... :yes: are you feeling him... :tup:
     
  19. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    The whole point I made, was that if the Chargers would have made it clear to McNeil that they WOULD work on a deal with him, he may have reported just like all the other RFA's who had teams willing to discuss long term deals, that MM may be in camp already.

    The Bolts wanted him here, then why not show him a sign of good will and agree to work on a new deal within a set amount of time if he agreed to sign the tender? They didn't have to agree to give him anything he wanted, nor did they have to a agree on a certain dollar amount, just that they would agree to have honest negotiations. Just a sign of good faith may have gotten him into camp, just like it did many other RFA's

    The other issue I have, is if Gates was such a huge priority, and they knew MM was a close 2nd and wasn't happy with the tender, why wait so freakin long to get Gates signed? Nothing about the CBA is any clearer today than it was 4 months ago, so that is not a valid excuse.
     
  20. Nomadic Bolt Fan

    Nomadic Bolt Fan Well-Known Member

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    I think it was pulled from his posterior nether region.
     
  21. Buck Melanoma

    Buck Melanoma Guest

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    I've never said that they should report. Never. I've only said that, if they feel this is a solidarity stance, they're very much in the minority.

    McNeill & VJ aren't in the Chargers long-term plans IMO. There's a possibility that McNeill could get signed, but I doubt it if he wants anywhere near top 5 LT money. I don't know that he does - just surmising.

    I don't believe that we'll ever see VJ in a Bolts uni again. Period.
     
  22. DenverBolt67

    DenverBolt67 BoltTalker

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    No one knows except the Chargers brass and they will not say publicly. But if the team doesn't want these guys long term, I understand why they feel holding out is in their best interest. I don;t like it, but I understand it
     
  23. RM24

    RM24 BoltTalker

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    Yep, they have some "Tenders" there too! Chicken ones (or was it nuggets) :lol:
     

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